Audirvana Plus 3 (official thread)

[jhwalker]

I have a couple of DSD64 files that played fine using A+ 2.6.6 but play at double speed using A+ 3.0. I tried changing all the setting that I could and it made no difference. Anyone else see this?

 

Yes, same problem here. Meridian Explorer 2, which indicates Audirvana must convert to PCM - plays back at double speed for DSD64. It also seemingly plays back at 4x for DSD128, and 8x for DSD256

[jhwalker]

Thanks for the report.

You can find get the fixed version here

 

Thank you! Confirmed now working on all three (i.e., DSD64, DSD128, DSD256) with release 3.0.0.1.

[jhwalker]

Really enjoying this new version. MQA integration is working very well - so nice to have another player that supports it! - and sound quality is superb, even without any upsampling, etc.

 

Just for grins, I compared playback of the same album via Audirvana 3.x (direct connect to DAC via USB) vs. Roon (through mRendu powered by LPS-1) and there is absolutely no contest - Audirvana is *so much* better, I thought something was broken in Roon Will be interesting to see if Audirvana can keep the same quality sound when / if it supports streaming through the mRendu

[jhwalker]

Streaming to µRendu and others is coming with next release 3.1

 

Thank you so much for listening to your users and implementing this Always available for beta testing *hint, hint*

[jhwalker]

Hello,

 

NO, it is a little like comparing a track in alac (lossless) and a aac (lossy) “mastered for iTunes”.

 

It's really somewhere in-between.

 

All audible frequencies are effectively lossless; i.e., they're not taking out whole chunks of music they think you can't hear to get to a compressed state like MP3 or AAC. Once you get into the supersonic realm (i.e., above audibility even to a child), only the relevant content is encoded (i.e., they don't waste space recording endless 000s and noise), but only relevant content.

 

Whether it's the best idea or not I don't know, but it's nowhere near as lossy as either MP3 or AAC, which both discard data in the audible range and ignore the supersonic range altogether.

[jhwalker]

Quick bug note: it appears Spotlight does not restart properly after stopping playback or exiting Audirvana.

 

This was working well in all the 2.x releases (as I recall), but is broken for me in 3.x.

[jhwalker]

I believe so - certainly I saw very familiar ones from Tidal in the Audirvana list.

 

As far as I can tell, exactly the same - I think Damien is just parsing the content from Tidal with a different "wrapper".

[jhwalker]

Minor bug (working as designed?) report: playing back purchased MQA files (FLACs converted to ALAC for compatibility with Apple devices), the data is passed through unmolested to my Explorer DAC (so the blue light comes on and it indicates decoding at 192k), but neither the source nor output shows as MQA in Audirvana.

 

I know you're not doing any decoding (i.e., just passing through the bits), but I'd think you'd want to indicate in some way the incoming file is actually MQA encoded.

[jhwalker]

I have the same question, and additionally am curious if veteran A+ users kept their izotope settings the same from 2.66, especially up sampling, or is it time to start the tweak journey over again (not meant in a negative way).

 

I changed nothing from my 2.66 config and so far 3 and 3.01 sound wonderful, with MQA, non-MQA Tidal, and local files.

 

If you have a non-MQA DAC, Audirvana first does the MQA "unfolding", then applies any resampling, AU processing, etc.

 

If you have an MQA DAC, though, all resampling, equalization, etc., is disabled so the data can be passed-through bit-perfect to the DAC.

 

I'd like the capability to override this, though; i.e., if an MQA-capable DAC is detected, give us the choice to treat it as MQA (and thus pass through the data) or non-MQA (and thus do software processing).

[jhwalker]

Hi Jud,

 

Sorry to reignite the MQA discussion but I think quite a number of us upgraded to Audirvana 3.0 partly because of the MQA support.

Personally, I thought having lossless 88.2/96 res streaming was very attractive.

 

But it seems you and others are absolutely right about MQA not being a lossless format!

Here's an interesting article on the MQA format.

 

HIGHRESAUDIO to stop offering MQA | Hi-Fi+

 

See what the MQA people will say/do about all this.

 

Best.

Mev

 

It's really not as simple as lossy vs. lossless, except in the dogmatic sense.

 

MQA is a lossy compression process, no quibble about that; however, it's not *nearly* so lossy as (say) MP3 or AAC. In fact, every audible sound up to 22.05 kHz (for 44.1k MQA files) or 24 kHz (for 48k MQA files) is captured (for all intents and purposes) losslessly. So right away, that encompasses 99% (made up number, but somewhere in that vicinity) of actual audio content. Above that, what content there is (typically, not a lot) is encoded quite a bit more loosely and we're told there is also the benefit of filtering that enhances timing response across the entire spectrum.

 

Personally, I think it sounds great (I've been listening to both streaming and local sources) through my Meridian Explorer 2 DAC (full decoder) as well as via software decoding to my other DACs.

[jhwalker]

Can someone clarify whether it is possible in A+3 to upsample a decoded MQA stream? Ie say it decodes to 24/96: Can I upsample this further to 24/192 using iZotope?

 

Yes, if you're using a non-MQA DAC. If you're using an MQA DAC, it simply passes through the bits and you are unable to do any processing.

 

I'd like Damien to give us the *option* to treat an MQA DAC as a non-MQA DAC (if desired), and so use Audirvana's AU, resampling, etc., facilities if we so choose.

[jhwalker]

3 minutes ago, Supperconductor said:

Running on 10.12.3 with LH Geek Out 1000 DAC which supports DSD with A+ when playing back DSD files. Playing back PCM files and scaling to DSD also works fine.

 

But when streaming from Tidal, scaling from PCM to DSD causes my DAC to crash with a "Device Stopped" message. Same behavior with A+ 2.x & 3.x. Is this expected behavior - Tidal streaming to DSD is not supported?

 

No, I've been able to stream from both Tidal and Qobuz, upsampling to DSD128 to my LH Labs Geek Infinity, with no issue.

[jhwalker]

17 minutes ago, TommyCat said:

If I am feeding my dac a 24/96 file, and the dac confirms that in the display (Benchmak HGC DAC2) why would it then upsample the file to 300+ kHz?.  Quite possible I am completely ignorant here.  I can send an email into Benchmark and maybe get my head screwed on straight.  For some reason I doubt this is happening since JohnSiau of Benchmark is quite passionate in his white papers against high up sampling rates.  

 

Maybe I have fallen trap to "it's not the things you don't know that hurt you, it's the things you know for sure that just ain't so"

 

FWIW, here is a good summary of the technology behind your DAC, with answers to these questions direct from John Siau:

 

http://www.audiostream.com/content/benchmark-media-systems-dac2-hgc-dac#VyZFs8K05WgpItRP.97

[jhwalker]

6 minutes ago, mansr said:

 

I fail to see the relevance of that.

 

Exactly - there is no such thing as "real time" processing (maybe when we get to quantum computing). 

 

Processing takes time, and it's code that does it - whether the code is in a chip (hardware) somewhere, or loaded in software, or . . . as long as the processing takes place ahead of playback needs, the difference between "real time" (misnomer anyway) and "a very short time" is inconsequential.  And computers indisputably have more flexibility for updated filters, etc., than can be encoded in a chip.

[jhwalker]

1 hour ago, biosailor said:

Sorry, if raising a question that might have appeared earlier on: when selecting a track in Audirvana 3.0.3, my Mac Book Pro automatically switches to internal speakers as output, even though in Midi setup as well as in the preferences menu, the corresponding DAC (Aqua La Voce) is selected. So Farbe, I have not found a solution to the problem, so Andy Input is welcome. I am running El Capitan as the operating system.

 

This is by design; i.e., it's how exclusive access works.

 

Select your DAC in Audirvana preferences - as it grabs exclusive access for playback, you'll see the selected output change to (something else) in Audio MIDI if your DAC is normally selected in Audio MIDI.  Once Audirvana stops playback on your selected DAC, you'll see Audio MIDI switch back to your DAC.

[jhwalker]

2 minutes ago, biosailor said:

All right, I get it: what you're saying is to de-activate exclusive mode? Did that and voilà, Audirvana plays straight into my DAC! Thanks!!!

 

Actually, the opposite, for best results.

 

To be specific:  Select your DAC in Audirvana (Preferences | Audio System | Change).  Leave Exclusive Mode checked.  Audirvana should play directly to your DAC.  If it does not work, that's another matter

 

What you see in Audio MIDI is irrelevant; i.e., when Audirvana is playing to your DAC in Exclusive Mode, you'll see Audio MIDI switch to (something else) - because Audirvana has taken exclusive control of your DAC away from macOS - but that doesn't matter.  When Audirvana stops playing, Audio MIDI will switch back to your DAC, if that's your default.

[jhwalker]

20 minutes ago, 57gold said:

Tried poly-sinc-xtr filter PCM files to DSD128 and activity monitor skyrocketed to 98%, bar ran back and forth for a minute with no playing. Force quit to get it to stop the loop.

 

Have a 2.6 quad core Mini with 16 GB RAM and SSD to run OS.

 

-2 version of xtr uses 10% of processor capacity.

 

It there something wrong?

 

Think you meant this for the HQPlayer thread

[jhwalker]

4 hours ago, Innocent Bystander said:

Poor Damien, he must be beginning to wish he had never heard of MQA, let alone implemented it.

 

Yes, this version at the moment holds no interest for me at all, and will not until 1) major bugs are fixed, 2) license is immune from absnce of ability to regularly check home, and 3) the library is fixed to include browsing and sorting by folders. And given the MQA ongoing seemingly continuous problems I would personally refer 2.6 to be retained with library improved as a matter of urgency, then maybe re-release 3 as a v4, much like Microsoft rapidly had to replace the awful Win8.

 

Hm - works perfectly for me.  And exactly which "MQA ongoing seemingly continuous problems" are affecting you?

[jhwalker]

2 hours ago, Gonzbull said:

I guess I'm in the camp that is not too bothered by the licensing issue. My computers are always connected to the internet and I keep updated all the software I use. 

 

In this day and age it is harder to operate a computer without internet access. The majority of my use involves the internet. Even my Studio machine is connected to download client files and audio plugins and receive software/firmware updates for the gear amongst other things. 

 

I doubt the the majority of A+ users would care about this. Maybe extending the 2week period might appease some. 

 At the end of the day it's a $100 piece of software that's doing its job brilliantly for me. I've spent way more on single plugins for the Studio. 

If the day comes that A+ dissapears I'll move on to the next best thing. 

 

 

Same.  One of the key benefits of Audirvana is Tidal and Qobuz integration which, of course, requires a continuous Internet connection.

 

I can't even imagine running my computers offline, and don't care about licensing / activation - no one is "watching" or "collecting your information" - simply checking to make sure the key is still valid.  Doesn't seem intrusive to me.

[jhwalker]

16 minutes ago, AudioDoctor said:

 

 

It's really not intrusive, more of an inconvenience for some.

 

Understood about the inconvenience for some - there is never a situation where I'd be offline for more than two weeks (or even two hours  LOL).

 

I was reacting to some of the earlier comments about "spyware" and "monitoring" and the like - checking the validity of a license every couple of weeks is very different from "spying".

[jhwalker]

23 minutes ago, Indydan said:

I read that direct mode does not work with Mac OS Sierra with version 2.6 of Audirvana. Has this been fixed in version 3.05?

 

Can someone please confirm that direct mode in version 3.05 works with Sierra? 

 

Many thanks! 

 

Direct mode (i.e., Audirvana's custom code for bypassing the Mac OS) does not work any more - it hasn't for a couple of years (since Apple turned on system integrity protection on El Capitan in 2015).  Integer mode (which is the official method Apple allows for the shortest possible path to audio hardware) continues to work.

 

Since direct mode was developed originally as a workaround for Apple removing integer access a couple years earlier, direct mode is no longer necessary, though some people keep trying to resurrect it   I suspect contravening macOS security to patch in direct mode is not a priority for Damien - he can certainly speak for himself, though.

[jhwalker]

2 minutes ago, jimdukey said:

Decibal does.

HQ went a different route.

A very good sounding one, with no OS-induced problems.

 

You're confused.  ONLY Audirvana ever implemented what they call "direct mode" - it is exclusive to Audirvana.  It was only implemented when Apple broke integer mode for a year or two and is / should be now deprecated.

 

All the other players have only ever used integer mode, which Audirvana also supports.

 

So claiming that Audirvana is somehow "broken" when it does the exact same thing as any of the other players in integer mode is a bit much.

[jhwalker]

2 minutes ago, jimdukey said:

Decibal has "Hog-Mode,"

same thing.

 

And the Error Message I get on AV+ does mean it's broken, or why would the work-around be offered?

 

 

It is *not* the same thing.  

 

"Hog-Mode" (sic) is Decibel's incorrect term for "exclusive access", which is built in to OS X / macOS, and *every* player offers.  Completely different from integer mode (again, built into the OS and offered by every player of substance) or Audirvana's exclusive direct mode which only works on earlier versions of OS X and is deprecated on macOS.

 

The "workaround" you mentioned is for people who wish to continue using direct mode on later versions of OS X / macOS, despite the fact that Apple has clearly deprecated the use of third-party kernel extensions ("kext") in the latest versions of OS X / macOS.  It is not a fix for something that is broken.

 

[jhwalker]

19 minutes ago, jimdukey said:

Then why doesn't direct mode work, if nothing is broken?

 

Anyway, I just made a direct comparison of HQ and AV+,

using a DSD 64 recording I made and am playing on.

 

HQ upsampling to DSD128 ( with NO conversion to PCM)

is obviously richer and more detailed than AV+ in DSD 64, no upsampling to DSD 128 available.

AV+ sounded thinner/blander/leaner.

Both MC21 and AV+ say conversion to DSD 128 is only possible with 

PCM conversion first.

Not so with HQ.

 

I won't argue with you about Tech Specs.

I know what sounds good,

and I'm getting it!

 

Great.

[jhwalker]

2 hours ago, soupdujour said:

Hi Damien,

 

Thanks for all of the work you did to add this functionality to Audirvana.  Since I use a Rendu (first a micro and now an ultra) with my Brooklyn DAC, my use of Audirvana (until now!) has been limited to my other DACs of lesser quality.  So today's indeed a happy one for me!

 

I successfully updated the uR software to enable the new functionality in its MPD/DLNA mode.  And in Audirvana I now can see my ultraRendu as a playback device.  Per your instruction, I specified the max sample rates both for PCM and DSD (i.e., 384kHz, and DSD-256).  When I then select the Audio Filters tab, and review the DSD Upsampling section, I am NOT given the option to choose anything other than DSD-64 (both DSD-128 and DSD-256 are greyed out in the pick list).  Changing the DSD filter didn't make a difference.  Did I miss something for DSD playback?

 

On a separate note, I did confirm that I could play music with PCM upsampling to 384kHz with no issues whatsoever.  

 

Thanks again!!

 

Nick 

 

Same here - DSD64 is actually greyed out, too, but if you select DSD upsampling, it *does* upsample to DSD64, but DSD128 or DSD256 are not selectable.

 

PS - Not to be ungrateful - very much enjoying the ability to stream to my microRendu from Audirvana The best way to listen to Qobuz streaming!