Why Haven;t You Tried Immersive 3D Audio Yet?

[audiventory]

If you have another practical method to improve my current stereo system, please share. I promise to read every word of it and experiment myself and ask you more question to improve the sound.

 

I promise to faithfully record my progress for evaluation and post it here. I promise I would sincerely spend months even years if it can improve my current stereo system and should not cost more than $125. That what I paid for Ambiophonics which ranges from FOC to &125 for the MiniDSP.

 

So which method you are proposing?

 

Do you know Barry Diament (http://www.soundkeeperrecordings.com)? He record by above mentioned 2-mic scheme. See photo here Paul Beaudry & Pathways There 2 microphones isolated by shield (device at the centre of the photo). Check his site. There is more information.

 

 

At your picture shown simple isolation system. But it is not suitable, in my opinion, like a similar shield wear on head.

This picture was taken from the internet. It is not my setup.

[ATTACH]33153[/ATTACH]

 

I suppose it caused more discomfort, than pleasure.

 

Your purpose is isolation of the speakers (cancel crosstalk). How to do it effectively is subject of an invention.

 

Your purchased Ambiophonics do cancelling of the crosstalk?

[STC]

Do you know Barry Diament (http://www.soundkeeperrecordings.com)? He record by above mentioned 2-mic scheme. See photo here Paul Beaudry & Pathways There 2 microphones isolated by shield (device at the centre of the photo). Check his site. There is more information.

 

 

At your picture shown simple isolation system. But it is not suitable, in my opinion, like a similar shield wear on head.

 

 

I suppose it caused more discomfort, than pleasure.

 

Your purpose is isolation of the speakers (cancel crosstalk). How to do it effectively is subject of an invention.

 

Your purchased Ambiophonics do cancelling of the crosstalk?

 

Let me determine whether it is suitable or not. Just show me a proper setup so I can implement it in my system.

 

After so many posts, I am surprised that you are still having the impression that I put up a barrier.

 

This is my room. Sorry about the poor lighting. It helps to hide the ugly sight.

 

You can see I don't use any barrier. All I have to do is move the speakers and put the $10 plugin in JRiver.

 

 

 

p.s. Your website is about buying their music. Isn't it same with Clarity labels although their method may differ. Anyway, this is no answer for my 30000 stereo tracks in my collection.

 

http://www.allmusic.com/album/release/the-clarity-recordings-sampler-mr0000359874

[audiventory]

Let me determine whether it is suitable or not. Just show me a proper setup so I can implement it in my system.

 

After so many posts, I am surprised that you are still having the impression that I put up a barrier.

 

This is my room. Sorry about the poor lighting. It helps to hide the ugly sight.

 

You can see I don't use any barrier. All I have to do is move the speakers and put the $10 plugin in JRiver.

 

 

p.s. Your website is about buying their music. Isn't it same with Clarity labels although their method may differ. Anyway, this is no answer for my 30000 stereo tracks in my collection.

 

I suppose, moving of speakers can't solve crosstalk isolation issue.

 

Records that you have created for listening in standard places of a speakers. In general, moving of speakers do nothing for better reproduction (close to original concert hall) of the sound fileld. Also nobody know how your records should sound in reality.

 

You can play with speaker's placement for adjusting sound in your room. But it is not matter of restorting of spatial picture.

 

What settings in this JRiver plugin? Its manual have a recommendations?

[STC]

I suppose, moving of speakers can't solve crosstalk isolation issue.

 

Records that you have created for listening in standard places of a speakers. In general, moving of speakers do nothing for better reproduction (close to original concert hall) of the sound fileld. Also nobody know how your records should sound in reality.

 

You can play with speaker's placement for adjusting sound in your room. But it is not matter of restorting of spatial picture.

 

What settings in this JRiver plugin? Its manual have a recommendations?

 

I really would like to believe you but I am not sure of your agenda. All the questions you are asking have been answered in previous posts.

 

Have you compared these recordings to Chesky Binaural +?

 

 

I wanted to buy your recommended Berryrecordings but apparently they do not offer any downloads. The reason cite was

 

What about downloads?

At this time, Soundkeeper Recordings does not offer downloads for several reasons.

First and foremost, we seek to deliver our recordings to our customers with nothing less than the very best sonics.  From our perspective, current download schemes involve compromises.

A full album at 24/192 can be larger than 4 Gigabytes in size; this would make for unacceptably long download times, even on today's fastest networks.  Where others reduce file size and hence, download times, by utilizing so-called "lossless" compression formats (such as .flac or .alac), to our ears, these will result in some lost fidelity when played back directly.  Trading fidelity for convenience is not what we want to offer our customers, so we stay with raw PCM formats (such as .aif and .wav).  Soundkeeper Recordings releases are recorded and mastered in .aif format.

 

Seriously?

 

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[audiventory]

Have you compared these recordings to Chesky Binaural +?

 

No. Unfortunatelly, listening of any record say me nothing. I don't know what is original. First I'm looking for theory of re-creation of concert hall (audio holography) in background.

[STC]

No. Unfortunatelly, listening of any record say me nothing. I don't know what is original. First I'm looking for theory of re-creation of concert hall (audio holography) in background.

 

Actually, I don't see any theory cited in the Soundkeepers website. Could you please point me where I can find them?

 

 

And for your info, all recordings are not original. If you want original sound go live unamplified

Concert hall sound.

 

 

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[audiventory]

Actually, I don't see any theory on the Soundkeepers website. Could you please point me where I can find them?

Possibly Barry have separate blog. Unfortunately, I can’t rapidly found it.

The theory:

1. Maximally isolated microphone instead ear capture sound.

2. Headphone about ear playback captured information.

3. Record may not edited.

 

If you want original sound go live unamplified Concert hall sound.

 

Agree.

[STC]

Possibly Barry have separate blog. Unfortunately, I can’t rapidly found it.

The theory:

1. Maximally isolated microphone instead ear capture sound.

2. Headphone about ear playback captured information.

3. Record may not edited.

 

 

 

Agree.

 

I did look at his blog but nothing there.

 

I looked at your profile and I can't find what media player you are using. But if you can add VST plugin to your media player than I would suggest http://electro-music.com/catalog/product_info.php/products_id/114

 

 

I still prefer the MiniDSP or Dirac with AmbiophonicsDSP.

 

You can purchase them at $10 and incorporate to your MiniDSP or Dirac hardware.

 

Check under plugin. I can't do it with phone.

 

https://www.minidsp.com

 

 

 

 

 

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[semente]

For those interested in binaural, Harmonic Classics uses a dummy head in it's recordings and apparently it's willing o sell Master Tape clones (whatever that means):

 

https://harmonicclassics.com/about/

 

 

I own only one of their recordings, the "Office des Ténèbres":

 

https://harmonicclassics.com/album/H_CD_9140/

 

 

R

[audiventory]

 

I looked at your profile and I can't find what media player you are using. But if you can add VST plugin to your media player than I would suggest Electro-Music.com

 

 

I still prefer the MiniDSP or Dirac with AmbiophonicsDSP.

 

You can purchase them at $10 and incorporate to your MiniDSP or Dirac hardware.

 

Check under plugin. I can't do it with phone.

 

https://www.minidsp.com

 

Thank you for links.

 

I use foobar in ASIO (ASIO4ALL) mode. Probably there VST-plugins supported too.

 

When I will in more free mode than currently, I plan take more time for learning spatial modeling issue.

[STC]

Thank you for links.

 

I use foobar in ASIO (ASIO4ALL) mode. Probably there VST-plugins supported too.

 

When I will in more free mode than currently, I plan take more time for learning spatial modeling issue.

 

You are welcome.

 

To understand and to see it's potential I would suggest to experiment with

 

https://cloud.aria3d.com/#/welcome

 

 

You need not do anything. Just follow the instruction. Try playing the video or listen to Money by Pink Floyd.

 

 

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[STC]

For those interested in binaural, Harmonic Classics uses a dummy head in it's recordings and apparently it's willing o sell Master Tape clones (whatever that means):

 

https://harmonicclassics.com/about/

 

 

I own only one of their recordings, the "Office des Ténèbres":

 

https://harmonicclassics.com/album/H_CD_9140/

 

 

R

 

Usually binaural recording sounds best with headphones. Do you use headphones?

 

 

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[audiventory]

You are welcome.

 

To understand and to see it's potential I would suggest to experiment with

 

https://cloud.aria3d.com/#/welcome

 

 

You need not do anything. Just follow the instruction. Try playing the video or listen to Money by Pink Floyd.

 

Thank you.

 

I just check it in Macbook speakers. 3D really present. Some instruments/voices (Mozart) placed stright in right ear.

 

Need check on big system (5.1).

[STC]

Thank you.

 

I just check it in Macbook speakers. 3D really present. Some instruments/voices (Mozart) placed stright in right ear.

 

Need check on big system (5.1).

 

Are you using Aria3D? Make sure the settings are correct. You must make sure the speakers or headphones setting selected correctly. It shouldn't sound inside the ear. It should give you 3 D effect. Please double check the settings and a big thank you for giving it a try.

 

Cheers!

 

 

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[semente]

You are welcome.

 

To understand and to see it's potential I would suggest to experiment with

 

https://cloud.aria3d.com/#/welcome

 

 

You need not do anything. Just follow the instruction. Try playing the video or listen to Money by Pink Floyd.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

I have tried it on my iMac's speakers and with a pair of budget sealed circumaural headphones and didn't like it; feels weird, like when you put on someone else's glasses with strong correction, and as if someone went overboard with the reverb.

 

I'll try to capture the sound and play it on my main 2 channel system.

 

R

 

 

 

 

Edit: it sounds a bit better with the headphones.

[STC]

I have tried it on my iMac's speakers and with a pair of budget sealed circumaural headphones and didn't like it; feels weird, like when you put on someone else's glasses with strong correction, and as if someone went overboard with the reverb.

 

I'll try to capture the sound and play it on my main 2 channel system.

 

R

 

Please check your settings. You are the first person to give such description.

 

Kindly state exactly how you played them? Which track are you listening to now?

 

I think you chose the dry room setting. With Mozart, the sound will be in side your ears chose normal room. And play with virtual stereo and 3D sound.

 

You will get better experience with speakers and much better experience with Ambiophonics and speakers.

 

 

 

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[semente]

Please check your settings. You are the first person to give such description.

 

Kindly state exactly how you played them? Which track are you listening to now?

 

I think you chose the dry room setting. With Mozart, the sound will be in side your ears chose normal room. And play with virtual stereo and 3D sound.

 

You will get better experience with speakers and much better experience with Ambiophonics and speakers.

 

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

In my opinion, the Mozart track is a very bad example of stereo...

With the Sennheiser 201s through iMac headphone out the change in timbre of the vocals is quite noticeable.

The Normal Room setting is unlistenable, sounds like a reverb chamber...

 

 

With the exception of the Chicago Musical one, other tracks are not fit purpose.

Here the spatial results are interesting but I can hear weird "artifacts"? and the change in tone of instruments and vocals is also quite obvious.

 

 

I can understand the appeal but from what I have heard it's not for me.

 

R

[STC]

In my opinion, the Mozart track is a very bad example of stereo...

With the Sennheiser 201s through iMac headphone out the change in timbre of the vocals is quite noticeable.

The Normal Room setting is unlistenable, sounds like a reverb chamber...

 

 

With the exception of the Chicago Musical one, other tracks are not fit purpose.

Here the spatial results are interesting but I can hear weird "artifacts"? and the change in tone of instruments and vocals is also quite obvious.

 

 

I can understand the appeal but from what I have heard it's not for me.

 

R

 

Check you sound card setting. Make sure you disable all sound effect there.

 

The sample's tone is harsh compared to plain stereo. I never suggested that this is the best of Ambiophonics. It just an example and easier solution to experience the spatial effect. Aria3D is still in WIP mode.

 

 

 

 

 

 

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[Ralph Glasgal]

This seems perfect for a second system in another room. I need to read the links you posted, thanks

Good luck. I hope you get something working and tell us all about it. Ralph

[Ralph Glasgal]

Why newcomers to something like Ambiophonics think that they don't need to tailor it to their tastes and experience is hard for me to understand since they do it with stereo equipment all the time. If you think the Aria 3D demo does not sound right, then that is what parametric equalizers are for or what the other home Ambiophonic implementations are for like Amtra, NeutronMP, Ambidio, Ambiophonics DSP, miniambio, BACCH, etc. There are also controls on these products to allow adjustment for individual taste or oddball recordings. Indeed the controls allow any mixture of Ambio and stereo so you can keep some part of your crosstalk if you like your crosstalk. When an LP doesn't sound right, maybe you get another cartridge, you don't say all Vinyl is no good. You guys never had a stereo loudspeaker pair or CD you didn't think sounded good?

 

Mixing Ambio with earphones is indeed problematic. But in the stereo world, if I had a dollar for every comment about headphones on Facebook this year, I could buy Facebook. Well, maybe 10 dollars.

 

If you think stereophonics is tweakable wait until Ambiophonics becomes commonplace. So you need to start with some kind of Ambiophonic system and then learn how to mold it to your liking. Stereo is inherently very colored in frequency response compared to single speaker mono but we accept that since it sounds more 3D. Ambio certainly can have some stereo like peaks and dips if not implemented well. I can only say that the equations show it to be inherently flat, so if it is not flat to anyone's ears, then, like stereophiles the world over do, find the tweak.

[audiventory]

Are you using Aria3D? Make sure the settings are correct. You must make sure the speakers or headphones setting selected correctly. It shouldn't sound inside the ear. It should give you 3 D effect. Please double check the settings and a big thank you for giving it a try.

 

I checked its online demo step-by-step as it suggested. It will check sound in big system later. Even in notebooks speakers it give scene. Quality sound as sound I don't consider in the notebook's speakers because I know, what there may be many unlistened detail, that clear and easy I can hear in big system. Though notebook allow to listen demo instantly :-)

[Kal Rubinson]

I always thought it was vibration what translates to sound we hear.

 

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/04/090423132955.htm

 

The relevant portion.

 

Ricci explained, "Location is important, because our entire theory of how sound activates these channels depends on it. Now we have to re-evaluate the model that we've been showing in textbooks for the last 30 years."

 

Deep inside the ear, specialized cells called "hair cells" sense vibrations in the air. The cells contain tiny clumps of hairlike projections, known as stereocilia, which are arranged in rows by height. Sound vibrations cause the stereocilia to bend slightly, and scientists think the movement opens small pores, called ion channels. As positively charged ions rush into the hair cell, mechanical vibrations are converted into an electrochemical signal that the brain interprets as sound.

I scanned the reference and the writer expresses an outdated (2009?) rather crude understanding of our present knowledge of auditory transduction or, perhaps, he has watered it down excessively in an attempt to make it simple.

 

If you want the up-to-date poop, try Hudspeth's chapter on the Inner Ear in the 5th edition of Kandel's "Principles of Neural Science," 5th ed.. There are also many standard and modern physiology textbooks (including my own) with good explanations.

[audiventory]

 

Interesting vibrato effect at one of sax's direction in anechoic room.

[audiventory]

Are you using Aria3D? Make sure the settings are correct.

 

I checked at my big system. However, it is not fully meet requirements.

 

Distance between speakers about 4 meters (about 13 ft). I listened in center at distance 1 ... 4 meters from front of the speakers.

 

As was suspected, there I have listening full sound picture.

 

3D processed sound have more volume obviously. Though I don't sure that all audiophiles will prefer 3D expansion.

 

Me seems, as one of processings there used reverberation. It is one of famous volume synthesizing tricks of sound engeneers. However, reverberation cause some sound smoothing.

[semente]

Why newcomers to something like Ambiophonics think that they don't need to tailor it to their tastes and experience is hard for me to understand since they do it with stereo equipment all the time. If you think the Aria 3D demo does not sound right, then that is what parametric equalizers are for or what the other home Ambiophonic implementations are for like Amtra, NeutronMP, Ambidio, Ambiophonics DSP, miniambio, BACCH, etc. There are also controls on these products to allow adjustment for individual taste or oddball recordings. Indeed the controls allow any mixture of Ambio and stereo so you can keep some part of your crosstalk if you like your crosstalk. When an LP doesn't sound right, maybe you get another cartridge, you don't say all Vinyl is no good. You guys never had a stereo loudspeaker pair or CD you didn't think sounded good?

 

Mixing Ambio with earphones is indeed problematic. But in the stereo world, if I had a dollar for every comment about headphones on Facebook this year, I could buy Facebook. Well, maybe 10 dollars.

 

If you think stereophonics is tweakable wait until Ambiophonics becomes commonplace. So you need to start with some kind of Ambiophonic system and then learn how to mold it to your liking. Stereo is inherently very colored in frequency response compared to single speaker mono but we accept that since it sounds more 3D. Ambio certainly can have some stereo like peaks and dips if not implemented well. I can only say that the equations show it to be inherently flat, so if it is not flat to anyone's ears, then, like stereophiles the world over do, find the tweak.

 

This "tweaking" business is another reason for me not to adopt 3D.

I don't have the faintest interest in fiddling with the system all the time, now that I have become a bit of a wanderer and change home every 2 years, and I am getting less inclined to invest more money into experimenting with my system.

 

I am aware that I didn't give Ambio a fair test, that the setup was low-fi and the mp3 samples are of poor quality.

I don't even like listening with headphones...

Perhaps I will be able to try it with a proper system someday but what I've learn't so far is making me more sceptical.

 

R