The true experimental tweak thread

[lmitche]

1 hour ago, mozes said:

Very low power consumption on the Vbus from the tX to the Brooklyn, 0.06A does it make sense?

 

Yes, makes perfect sense. In the Brooklyn the vbus is just used as a signal that a USB cable is connected.  The power isn't used for anything.

[lmitche]

5 hours ago, Cornan said:

With that said it is important to understand where the music bits are coming from and how noisy that connection might be. If you are living in an appartment in the center of a big town and listening to cloud content like me anything from the source to the player will probably matter. If you are living in a house outside the center and listening to local content anything from the local storage to the player will matter, including what is used to control the music and the paths are carrying the music bits. Anything else might not be as important.  

Cornan, I spent the afternoon listening to the local drive and Tidal music sources.  I can't tell the difference.  I'm in a pretty rural location with fiber on the street and copper to the house. Inside the house there is a wireless connection between floors and the audio system is on the wireless connection.  Anyway it sounds fantastic, so it can be done.

[lmitche]

1 hour ago, Cornan said:

I have an Aqvox switch-8 coming from @mozes. He did´nt find it neccessary anomore since he only listen to cloud music like Tidal for finding music to buy as I understood it.

It will hopefully arrive latest next week, so I can start evaluate it. I am pretty sure it will do an amazing job in my Tidal only setup. Exciting!

 

Anyway, I have started to think about if it is possible or a good idea to share the improved network SI from the Aqvox wirelessly from my main setup to my low budget setup? My intitial thought is something like this:

 

This will mean that I will buy another second router to share the connection wirelessly to the DAP-1620 in my low budget setup. However, I am still not 100% sure this will be a better solution than a direct connection.

Anyone else here that are more certain of the outcome of this network setup or perhaps have a better idea how to share the Aqvox connection wirelessly? 

Cornan, wow that is one complex network.  Are you running two or more subnets?  Why don't you use the wireless connectivity of the Chromecast?  Are these devices in three different physical locations?  What type of routers?  Are they wireless?

[lmitche]

2 hours ago, Cornan said:

 

So far this is just something that I am considering to make the best possible use of the coming AQVOX switch-8. I want both of my systems to gain from the improved reclocking and SI. My thinking is to buy another router and connect it via WDS, so the new router is the passive WDS and the old router is the active WDS. AFAIK this will create two different subnets. My two wireless adapters are connected to different channels (channel 48 & channel 60) with separate control points/devices which actually improved the sq a bit on both places.

 

The main router is a Netgear router supplied by the service provider (ie. Not chosen by me. I am not at home and cannot remember the name of it right now) and I want to use the same brand (Netgear) if possible for the passive WDS. Most likely a Nighthawk or a C7. However, I am still looking for other brands like ASUS and TP-Link and will do so for a while before I pull the plug. 

 

Yes, the devices are in three different locations: 1. main router/2. main setup/3. low budget setup.

 

It might look over-complicated, but it is really the friuts of what I have dicouvered to be beneficial to SQ for me with Tidal as the only source. Both setups have similar thinking. I have actually also another D-Link network switch that I will throw in after the OTG power devider+TP-Link TL-UE300 to make it more or less identical to my main setup. Always fun to find out if a second switch can improve it! 

 

 

 

Cornan, what I have learned is that the power supplies for the network gear are a huge source of noise and need to be shielded.

 

Here is a simple network diagram of my place:

 

Ground floor:

Cable modem >EN70HD>Netgear Black Knight dual band wifi router(subnet 1)

 

Third floor:

Netgear EX7000 bridge(5ghz lane)>BJC cat6a>AsusN66U router(subnet 2)>Wi-Fi>AsusEAN66, powered by 12 volts DC El cheapo plugged into AC isolation transformer>BJC cat6a>EN70HD>BJC cat6a>EN70HD>Intel pt100/1000 nic>Windows 10 upsampling PC

 

So when I say Tidal sounds as good as the local HDD, Tidal is being delivered through the gear above.

[lmitche]

Just now, Cornan said:

 

Wow Moussa! Now you're prepared for serious network isolation. Great! ?

 

 

Yes, this will do the trick and is exactlywhat for example @r_w have done with great results. ?

 

 

With so many network isolators in the chain a little trial and error are the best way to find out what will sound the best.

 

 

 

Mozes, I would try to get the Ethernet isolation transformer as close to the nic as possible.

[lmitche]

11 minutes ago, mozes said:

@lmitche excuse my ignorance  but what is NIC?

Sorry,

 

NIC = Network Interface Card

 

[lmitche]

9 minutes ago, mozes said:

Thank you, I should have known that 

No worries, it was one of my more cryptic posts, if I say so myself.

[lmitche]

1 hour ago, Cornan said:

 

Yeah, who wants a boat with leakage? Not me! ?

I have an audio system on my little boat with Australian marine speakers and a Sony marine audio head.  Playing back music from my cell phone via Bluetooth is super. There are no leakage currents as everything is galvanically isolated and powered by batteries. Your post made me realize that may be why it sounds so great.  Thanks.

[lmitche]

Cornan, I don't know if you pulled the trigger on the Brooklyn yet.  I owned and loved it, but after hearing the IFI microidsd at dsd512, I sold the Brooklyn. The IFI is just at another level powered by an lps-1.  It is single ended.  It has a great headphone amp as well.  The newer Black Label version is a true upgrade and takes things to the next level.

 

Anyway, no one mentioned it here, and I have had both so thought you should consider this option.

[lmitche]

1 hour ago, mozes said:

Two points are interesting to me in Larry's impression about the iFi microDSD BL:

 

1-To get best results, it is powered by LPS-1, this means that the LPS-1 performs better than the internal batteries. I assume @lmitche has done this comparison.

 

2-The performance of a DAC is highly dependent on the signal it is fed with. This means that one has to take into account the music source (player/server..), music format, and sampling rates when evaluating DACs.

 

Personally, I have taken a strategic decision long time back that I only want to play music at its native format and sampling frequency, and this is why I always favour low powered servers vs high powered ones that can manage DSD512 up-sampling.

 

My premise is that the transparency and natural flow of low powered music server playing music in its native format and frequency outweighs the increased resolution of DSD512 upsampling. Of course, this is what I convinced myself with, but it may be different for others in their systems, e.g. @lmitche found out that DSD512 offers the best SQ with the iFi micro DSD BL.

Hi Moussa,

 

Well over a year ago I had a T+A DAC here running dsd512 and was impressed with the difference between dsd 512 and 256.  That listening session was attended by 4 CAers. At dinner we discussed dac options to the T+A that output dsd512.  One of the attendees had a silver IFI microidsd and sent it to me to compare with the T+A and the Brooklyn. Much of this is documented in the start of T+A thread on CA.

 

At that time the T+A sounded best, then the IFI microidsd without the lps-1, and then the Brooklyn.  I was so impressed, I sold the Brooklyn, bought a used IFI, and returned the T+A to my friend.  Since then I have had T+A DACs here on two more occassions, before and after upgrading to the IFI microidsd Black Label.  In the later comparisons, the T+A certainly has qualities using the balanced outputs that are enjoyable, but overall seems colder to the IFI microidsd BL/LPS-1 combo.  Put another way, I am not and have never been crushed when I have to return the T+A to my friend.

 

The session attendee that voluntarily sent the loaner IFI microidsd last spring has since upgraded to the Black Label. He also owns a Brooklyn and an Auralic Vega.  His source PC is a duplicate of mine.  A couple weeks ago, just for grins, he hooked up his Vega and Brooklyn to compare with the IFI microidsd.  He told me his Vega and Brooklyn are now up for sale.

 

I hope to have a T+A DAC here soon to listen to the impact of most recent upgrades I've made to the source PC.

 

Cornan, I would rather see you put your money into an upsampling machine than a DAC, I think you will both get a better result, and it will leave you with more to tweak!

 

Sorry for the wordy post.

 

Larry

[lmitche]

6 hours ago, Cornan said:

 

Thanks Larry!

 

Your input is truly appreciated! ? I will give it careful considerations before I'll decide what to buy. Really I am already very happy with the SQ I've got with Aries Mini's "semi" MQA with my Pioneer U-05 DAC, but it is very tempting to buy a MQA DAC to find out how a real unlocked MQA will sound like. Remember that I only listen to Tidal. No local files at all anymore.

 

I recently tried DAC upsampling via my Pioneer U-05 with "semi" MQA and it totally killed the sq. Now, I know software upsampling via HQ player is suppose to be much better, but I really would prefer not to go back to a pc based setup again.

 

A "less pc" option in my world would be to add a SonicTransporter i5 to the Aries Mini and Brooklyn DAC or Auralic Altair. AFAIK I could then get Roon+HQ player later on and do the software upsampling with Tidal MQA, right?

Cornan, I don't know anything about the Sonic transporter i5 so can't comment.

 

For local playback, I couldn't hear any benefit from MQA on the Brooklyn vs original high res tracks, so I don't miss it.  It sounds like the new software decompression gets players most of the way there, so for streaming I'm good.

[lmitche]

3 hours ago, Cornan said:

 

That makes the AC/DC path even more interesting to try! ? I will try my best to see what can be done with the Vbus. If it does'nt work with battery injection I will have to find another solution like the ISORegen. However, I think I would personally prefer a Regen without the galvanic isolation, but with the improved clock. I am not pro active GI. I am more interested in passive GI.

Micheal, did you know one can disable the GI on the ISO Regen? There is a switch for that!

[lmitche]

18 hours ago, Cornan said:

 

Thanks Larry! Yes, I am aware of it. Still, I would prefer it without. I am not fully confident that I want that electrical circuit there when I am not going to use it. However, it all comes down to the Brooklyn DACs Vbus which I'll need to figure out in detail.

The Brooklyn DAC needs vbus for sure. At least mine did.

[lmitche]

4 hours ago, Cornan said:

 

Did you use 5v injection power when you had it or did you power it through Regen/RUR?

I worked through all the combinations. The Regen was the best solution.

[lmitche]

1 hour ago, Cornan said:

 

Just a question. Do you mean that you tried Brooklyn DAC with a Regen plus a separate 5v injection and preferred the Regen alone?

 As I remember, I cut the vbus to the REGEN and carried the vbus from the REGEN to the DAC with a hard adapter.  I can't remember injection of the vbus to the DAC having any impact.

[lmitche]

1 hour ago, austinpop said:

 

I now have the B&K powering my network closet gear - modem, router, switch, NAS, and a couple of USB drives. 

 

I did run into an issue where just plugging in my UPS to the IT was a no go. My UPS kept buzzing and beeping. I think it detects and does not like the isolation. So I removed the UPS and put in a simple TrippLite strip. After that everything worked just fine. I'm still a bit apprehensive I may be running the B&K at a highish VA, but my reasoning is that if I overdrive it, it will trip its overload switch, which I will detect as my Internet connectivity will go. So far - after about 4 hours - there've been no issues.

 

As to SQ. Well, nothing dramatic here either. If there is an improvement, it is very, very subtle. With small changes like this, I just let the change stay in place for a few days, and then remove it to see whether the absence triggers a bigger perception of SQ difference. So we shall see.

 

I suspect I may just be blessed with a scenario - newish home, standalone, suburban location, clean power - where I don't have the conditions that an IT solves.

Do you have a current system schematic?

[lmitche]

2 hours ago, austinpop said:

 

Yup, here you go:

 

 

 

One update - the Baaske now sits between the bridged server and the reclocking switch. But as I've said, the Baaske makes zero SQ difference for me. Like you suggested, it may be a dud. 

 

Hopefully, I will try the SOtM ISO-Cat6 isolator soon, as a local CA'er has it on the way.

I would try the isolation transformer on the DAC first.  Also, can you move the meanwells off the psaudio regenerator into a different socket, and put the windows machine on the psaudio? Anyway my two cents fwiw.

[lmitche]

10 hours ago, lmitche said:

I would try the isolation transformer on the DAC first.  Also, can you move the meanwells off the psaudio regenerator into a different socket, and put the windows machine on the psaudio? Anyway my two cents fwiw.

Rajiv,

 

Don't hesitate to try the baaske and SOTM isolation transformer in serial.  Adding the second EMOsystems IT makes a small difference become a vast difference in sq here.

 

Two baaskes in serial have done the same for my friend Zorntel as well.

[lmitche]

3 minutes ago, austinpop said:

Not everything @lmitche and @Cornan have suggested is practical for my system, but yes, I will do some more experiments.

 

I'm wondering if it's ok to plug the IT into my P5 regenerator... will research that too.

Should be no issue.

[lmitche]

58 minutes ago, Cornan said:

I just forced myself to stop listening to Tidal MQA. The Y-split made a great improvement. Without my Fostex I can only say that I did'nt know that my T50p was capable to sound this great. A really sweet sound, airy, detailed, dynamic and punchy. ?

I hope you've ordered an ISO Regen.  You are going to be surprised!

[lmitche]

2 hours ago, austinpop said:

 

And the LPS-1.  I notice @Cornan has gone to incredible lengths in experimenting with floating supplies, and his results are fascinating. 

 

However, I do wonder how the combination of LPS-1 and ISO-R would transform his system!

Rajiv, yes of course an lps-1 would serve Cornan beautifully.  

 

FWIW, I use a y-cable here both to power the iso regen and to inject power into the vbus leg of the split USB cable.  The Brooklyn truly benefits from the power injection as does my current black ifi microidsd dac.  

 

FYI - just for grins, I've ordered a ghent audio y-cable to replace my cheap Amazon model.

[lmitche]

28 minutes ago, Cornan said:

@mozes

 

Here is a revised typology with everything correct I hope!

Bits and pieces like for example Entreq Minimus is still missing, but should´nt be important on this typology.

 

Hi Cornan,

 

Have you tried plugging the LPSes powering the aries and Regen into the Peakteach IT?

[lmitche]

Oh, I didn't realize they are SMPSes. Nevertheless, it's a simple change to try and you may be surprised.  All of my LPSes are floating and they are still very sensitive to ac topology.

[lmitche]

29 minutes ago, Cornan said:

 

Thanks for the suggestion Larry! I will try it out. Makes sense in a way to remove the capasitive coupling along the lenght of the AC cable plus providing cleaner power for the Gopherts. I'll see if it improves or not in a week or so and report back!

 

Yeah there may be an issue with SMPS backwash into the Peaktech connected devices, but the Brooklyn uses an SMPS and I suspect your tplink switch does the same, so it may not matter.  The gain from the  lower impedance path between these devices may result in better SQ.

[lmitche]

12 minutes ago, Cornan said:

 

As seen on my typology my AQVOX switch-8 (ie. not TP-Link switch) is battery powered (with charger disconnected from AC mains while in use). I would actually say that battery power is neccessary for best SQ. Not even AQVOX own PSU can compare with battery power, even though AQVOX proudly inform that nothing will compete with their own psu.

 

The whole point with my SMPS route is to find out if SMPS is the root to all evil as many here on CA seem to think. My conclution is that it is NOT! Both the Gopherts and Brooklyns internal SMPS is very good indeed if you just mind to float the ground. The ALT Hi-Fi DC blocker trap filter pre my Peaktech 2240 is ment to take care of any backwash DC currents from the power strip in my own setup and from the rest of the household and my unintentionally vicious neighbours (I live in an appartment). 

 

Anyway, I will insert the Gopherts into my Peaktech floating IT to see how that will turn out. I would´nt be surpriced if it will improve. My only concern is what I want to do with my RE450 (wireless adapter) which is connected to the Peaktech as well. I am very cautious about any network devices, since they seem perticularly unfriendly to SQ, especiially to AC mains connected devices. Even though it just have a two prong AC mais plug it was improved vastly when connected to the floating IT.

Cornan, sorry I didn't realize the RE450 was a wireless adapter.  I suppose your AQVOX switch is working like a Ethernet isolation transformer especially as it is Galvanically isolated with the battery power. Given this you might try the wireless adapter directly in the wall.  This may help the Brooklyn, then add the SMPSes and see what happens.