A novel way to massively improve the SQ of computer audio streaming

[agillis]

Ok, MASSIVE is a bit of an overstatement at this level of high-end audio but now that I have your attention, I would say that this improvement is quite significant, nonetheless, and once you hear it, I suspect you will not wish to go back to your previous setup. More importantly, this is neither difficult nor expensive to implement.

 

 

We have two ethernet ports on our sonicTransporter HQplayer addation just for this purpose.

 

https://www.smallgreencomputer.com/collections/custom-units/products/sonictransporter-roon-server-hqplayer'>https://www.smallgreencomputer.com/collections/custom-units/products/sonictransporter-roon-server-hqplayer

 

 

sonicTransporter for HQplayer has the fastest processor avalible (skylake i7) and the fastest m.2 (Samsung Pro 3.2 GB/s transfer rate) So it's a very good machine for running HQplayer and Roon Server on one quiet fanless box.

 

You could easilly set up bridging between the two ports so you could have a dedicated Ethernet line for your microRendu.

 

Also if anybody is interested I could set up our sonicTranspoter i5 with a USB Ethernet port in bridged mode.

 

If you are interested in any of these solution click the contact us button at the bottom of our home page

 

https://www.smallgreencomputer.com/

[agillis]

Which processor do you use actually?

 

Matt

 

At the moment the 6700. We are always updating our hardware through so I can't guarantee that will be what we are using when you place an order.

[agillis]

I have only read this tread as far as here.

 

Is there any USB to Ethernet converter you recommend ?

 

Can you offer this modification done via TeamViewer ?

 

Or since we know that the SonicTransporter only can use one USB port anyway for storage, why not offer the solution by a firmware upgrade ?

 

Please take the time to give us a proper answer Andrew.

 

I tested it here and the performance of the USB Ethernet controller is not that great. Puts a high interrupt load on the sonicTransporter.

 

A better solution would be two built in Ethernet ports. I may look into offering something like that.

[agillis]

I suppose you will use the available mini pci-e slot for such a modification ?

 

So in theory an upgrade may be possible ?

 

There is no hole in the case for another Ethernet port even if you had a PCIe card.

 

I would build a new unit with a different board and a new case.

 

I actually have one already. I put in a quad core i7 so you can use the new Roon up-sampling to it's full potential.

 

https://www.smallgreencomputer.com/collections/custom-units/products/sonictransporter-i7-for-roon-1-3-dsp

 

-Andrew

[agillis]

20 minutes ago, the_doc735 said:

@vortecjr suggested that Linux already plays from RAM and uses RAM to speed disk operations.  This is true for all OS's, whether it be Windows, DOS, MacOS, or Linux.  But what we are talking about here is different.  It would make sense that because RAM is orders of magnitude faster than any disk, that to be able to avoid any and all disk access by running completely in memory is a big deal and my experience thus far strongly supports the validity of this approach.  Furthermore, to be able to avoid the noise imparted by a drive, especially an SSD makes this approach a slam dunk.  And so at the very least, figure out a way to run diskless, particularly with your endpoint.

 

You could PXE boot Linux over the network and run a computer completely from RAM with no hard drive, SSD, or boot drive of any kind. This is not that hard to do and there are instruction on the internet to set up something like this.

 

But from my experience you would still be subject to all the other electrical noise in a computer. The best option is always to separate the server from the network player The configuration would be to use a network player with a small Linear supply powering each component on the board, not SSD drive and a small low power low noise ARM CPU.

 

This way you would eliminate all the noise from SSDs etc, all the noise from switching power supplies, and all the noise from large fast CPUs. This design is already available commercially. It's an ultraRendu.

[agillis]

56 minutes ago, romaz said:

Your SonicTransporter i7 should function capably as a RoonServer.  x86 applies to any Celeron, Pentium, Xeon, or i3/5/7 CPU (or the AMD equivalent thereof).  For RoonServer which performs the brunt of the heavy lifting, the more powerful CPUs seem to fare better but at what point are the benefits of lower latency outweighed by the negatives of higher noise?

 

You should never connect a sonicTransporter i7 to your DAC. You are correct the i7 processor is very noisy. This is why you need a network player to isolate your DAC from the noise.

 

If you want features like DSD512 upsampling an i7 is the only way to get it. You then need a way to seperate the noise from your DAC.

 

 

[agillis]

So how do you boot the NUC if it's diskless?

[agillis]

1 minute ago, romaz said:

I believe this is what I have been saying all along.

 

Yes you have been saying that. This thread is very long I was mentioning it again for people who are still talking about attach a DAC to an i7 CPU machine.

[agillis]

1 minute ago, romaz said:

You boot off a USB stick and once booted, you remove the USB stick.

 

Have you tried PXE boot? It would save you from having to plug and unplug the USB key all the time.

 

it would just boot up and run. No drives. Ever.

[agillis]

Just now, romaz said:

AudioLinux has been just as stable as your SonicOrbiter.

 

Linux is in general very stable. I have a system here that has not been rebooted in 5 years. That's one of the reasons it's so great for audio.

[agillis]

1 minute ago, lmitche said:

This is DIY thread. Aren't you a vendor?

 

This is a DIY thread. and yes I am a vendor. All of my products started as DIY ideas. We improve them productize them and bring them to the masses in the form of easy to use products.

 

But it all starts with people working together to try new possibles.

 

Turning over new rocks is how all great products start.

[agillis]

12 minutes ago, austinpop said:

what do you see as the long-term solution, since Roon Server needs to do I/O's to storage as part of its normal operation, due to:

 

What if you mounted a network drive and wrote the changes to that once and a while?

[agillis]

2 minutes ago, lmitche said:

Right, so you can make money from our ideas. I'm outta here!

 

You are posing your ideas in an open forum for the free use of all. I sure there are many industry people reading this thread.

 

It's important that the ideas of the DIY community are turned into products so that non DIY people can benefit from them.

[agillis]

2 minutes ago, romaz said:

If anyone deserves to monetize what has been learned here, it is Larry. 

 

That for sure. Building a Linux Distro is a huge amount of work! Nice job Larry.

 

I see that AudioLinux charges for support. That's a great business model.

[agillis]

33 minutes ago, lmitche said:

Jesus R and his collegue AGillis came here to throw shade on the NUC solution, which as Johnseye observes is seen as competition.

 

A DIY NUC player solution is a no way competition for products we sell to the high end audiophile market. These guys have no interest in build PCs .

 

I am very interested in what you guys are doing. I have been part of the Computer Audiophile community for years and did work on the CAPS project. The origin "computer as a high end music server".