DVD-A High-Resolution Audio

[The Computer Audiophile]

It will definitely play 16/44.1. There is no over-sampling involved. It will handle this resolution natively.

 

It will be a little while before it's released according to Gordon. My guess is six months, but that's just a guess.

 

[TheRocker]

I have found a list here (http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f7/all-dacs-money-can-buy-197674/) and here (http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f7/all-dacs-money-can-buy-pt-2-a-325941/) listing most current DACs with some specs (mainly the chip).

 

Googling some of these may give info on whether or not they do USB 24/96.

 

[The Computer Audiophile]

Very cool Peter, thanks for sharing the link.

 

Be careful when reading 24/96 USB DAC because most DACs will either downsample or do 24/96 via a different input.

 

[TheRocker]

Yes, I got a little burnt by that, I bought a Super Pro DAC 707 USB that said it did 24/192, but it turned out it would only do 16/48 over USB, but 24/192 over toslink/coax. Lucky it was cheap.

 

As it happens, I think it sounds better at 24/96 or 24/192 over toslink than 16/48 over USB regardless of the increased jitter that is supposed to plague toslink!

 

[tfarney]

FWIW, the Benchmark DAC1 is pro audio as well. Very popular with audiophiles, but designed for pro audio. I think the difference between audiophile DACs and pro audio DACs is a matter of objectives. Pro audio should be going for transparency. Sometimes the audiophile designer wants tone, and that usually means warmth to mitigate the digital edge.

 

That's a huge can of worms, of course, and we could talk for days about what transparency means and whether the digital "edge" is a distortion or our inability to handle the truth, but the bottom line, I believe, is that any designer of a pro audio component (other than eq and signal processing gear) who deliberately builds in a sound other than the sound of the source, is departing from the core objective of pro audio equipment.

 

With that said, many audiophiles would find a really neutral studio system rather hard to listen to.

 

Tim

 

[markr]

"With that said, many audiophiles would find a really neutral studio system rather hard to listen to."

 

True, true, true! When I bring people in to my recording / performing / listening space (my home) to do a little listening rather than recording or performing, I always have to remind myself that I DO have signal processing gear and that most folks DO prefer the sound modified from what the individual instruments sound like on their own. I guess that I can "handle the truth" - at least with audio. Though I confess that I like it sweetened a bit sometimes too! It really depends on what I am intending to accomplish in that particular session. Recording is different from playing is different from listening. Mixing-down is altogether different.

 

To me, pro gear excels as a playback DAC if for nothing else other than the fact that their playback bit rate and sampling rate can be precisely adjusted to the source resolution. No tricks are needed internally to accomplish proper playback. My FF400 for instance, has 27 different presets for sampling rate and that doesn't count the 'corse and fine' sliders that will further fine tune the sampling rate between the presets. To me, that is heaven.

 

markr

 

[The Computer Audiophile]

This got me thinking a little bit about neutral being difficult to listen to for most audiophiles. Since live music is certainly not difficult to listen to and is in fact what many seek to reproduce, how come a "neutral" system is difficult to listen to. If it truly was neutral wouldn't it sound as close to the original as one can get?

 

I'm kind of wondering about this one now. Jump in guys and let me know what you think. Maybe I am way off here!

 

[markr]

In my opinion, I don't think you are 'way off here' Chris. I don't understand it either. Heck, I didn't really understand it when the hubbub began about how the new (well built) solid state amplifiers didn't sound 'as good' as similar tube equipment back in the day. I mean I can tell the difference between the sound in both cases and everything. I value diversity I suppose. I've just found that most folks seem to like sound to sound the way they *want* it to sound - I tried to work the word sound into that sentence one more time but couldn't seem to sound it out.... - And those personal preferences don't really seem to have anything to do with accuracy with regard to the original sound.

 

Now I say that with the proviso that you also understand my point of reference: Having just recorded a 4 or 5 piece group's performance while listening to that performance, and then participating in a mixing session of that same piece in which the group didn't want the mix to sound much like the performance at all. That original performance's sound was preferable to me though...

 

I think I mentioned in a post on C/A some time back that most of the (non-musician) people that I am acquainted with don't really know what real instruments sound like live. Unless you are talking about a guitar, piano, church organ, marching or rock band. That seems to be about the extent of a lot of people's experience with live sound. I grew up in a school system that sent us to the symphony at least once a month during the school year. First grade through High School. Lot's of my classmates loved it because they didn't have to be in school on those days, but I LOVED it because I was going to see the symphony!

 

Personally, I keep striving for THAT kind of sound. I do appreciate manufactured sound as well though - I had a Moog Mini Model D when I was learning piano in college, and synthesis is still just about my favorite form of keyboard performing. I'm not talking about emulating other instruments, talking about creating new ones..... Could I BE any more off topic now?

 

Nope. You aren't way off, Chris. I wonder about it too. I think someone coined the phrase " there is no accounting for taste " with regard to this conundrum. ...... and I certainly don't want to deprive anyone of their taste. If it sounds good, it IS good.

 

markr

 

 

 

 

 

[The Computer Audiophile]

Thanks for the reply Mark.

 

I hear you when you say most ... people don't know what instruments sound like live. One very cool thing with the 24/96 DVD-Audio albums that I've been ripping is that the instruments sound so much more like they are supposed. The cymbals aren't thin and they actually have air around them etc... when i click back to the redbook version the instruments sound appalling. So, 24/96 is one step closer to real instruments!

 

[ggking7]

Tim, your "most people would find a neutral system really hard to listen" comment got me thinking as well. Has anyone tried recording a vinyl LP at 24/192? That would incorporate the warm vinyl sound into the recording and open up a huge library of 24/192 music.

 

[ggking7]

Just wanted to mention the latest from Gordon is that the Proton will be available in July.

 

[The Computer Audiophile]

Fabulous!

 

[theob]

chris you said you did this, what software did you use? I would like to try. I have a Benchmark as well. Are you interfacing with usb or spdif?

 

[The Computer Audiophile]

Hey theob - the software is called DVDAExplorer. It can be a bit hard to find. I prefer the USB input on the benchmark.

 

[theob]

Mostly its tied into porn sites. Is there anywhere to get it w/o paying or is it going to cost?

 

[The Computer Audiophile]

I am hesitant to post direct links because I have a feeling some record company will be all over us. So, please use these links and the application to rip a copy of your own DVD-Audio discs that you made after recording your own band, or something similar.

 

Here is the Windows version that does work better than the OS X version.

 

Here is the OS X version

 

[theob]

I am only going to try to create a flac file of one of my dvda's so yes no problem. But I am clueless on the steps to take. Look I will understand if you can't elaborate you being the site host and all that.

 

But while I have you since you have a usb Benchmark let me ask you about it. I have xp-> cplay-> asio4all-> Benchmark. Since asio4all is limited to 24/48 I really haven't been able to hear 24/96 off my Benchie. I know you have a mac but does it use some other version of asio? What player are you using.

 

Interested in hearing about the rest of your front end and anything you can tell me about asio.

 

[tfarney]

Chris said:

 

"This got me thinking a little bit about neutral being difficult to listen to for most audiophiles. Since live music is certainly not difficult to listen to and is in fact what many seek to reproduce, how come a "neutral" system is difficult to listen to. If it truly was neutral wouldn't it sound as close to the original as one can get?

 

I'm kind of wondering about this one now. Jump in guys and let me know what you think. Maybe I am way off here."

 

Yes, but how do the seek to reproduce it? Almost no popular recording, even "live" recordings represent the actual sound of the instruments. Almost all concerts we go to are amplified through massive PA systems that color the sound more than most decent mid-fi systems. Then there is symphonic music, subjected to the acoustics of the average hall. Go ask the cellist if you hear what a cello sounds like in that situation.

 

Perhaps we seek to reproduce live music in theory, but few of us have a clue as to what it sounds like. There are exceptions, of course. The Grisman/Rice "Tone Poems" albums come to mind as efforts that endeavored to reproduce the real sound of those instruments in a room. They sound fabulous on brutally neutral pro equipment.

 

Tim

 

[tfarney]

"Tim, your "most people would find a neutral system really hard to listen" comment got me thinking as well. Has anyone tried recording a vinyl LP at 24/192? That would incorporate the warm vinyl sound into the recording and open up a huge library of 24/192 music."

 

I haven't done it, but it has certainly been done, and reportedly the results are exactly what you're predicted -- it sounds like vinyl.

 

Tim

 

[The Computer Audiophile]

Hey theob - I'm a little exhausted after finishing up the Minerva review I just published, so forgive me if I am a little short here. Feel free to email me about the above mentioned particulars you need to know to get the app working.

 

On Windows I recommend either of the J River applications. J River media center or I think the other one is called J River Media Jukebox (free). Media Monkey is also a popular high resolution player for PCs. Do your homework on the ASIO bit perfect plugins though.

 

On my Mac I use iTunes. It is bit perfect out of the box. There is no ASIO on OS X.

 

Sorry for being short tonight :-( Keep asking if you don't get the answers you need and I'll return to help out!

 

[ggking7]

Tim, I've wondered about the same thing. What kept me from taking the plunge is getting all of the equipment and manually splitting tracks.