Noodeling Posted October 26, 2016 Share Posted October 26, 2016 I'm sitting in front of my Hifi listening to DSD512 offline upsampled Music. By error I checked the "wrong" Button in the Civero/Xiscr Sotware and hit the "Philips .dff" Format Output instead of the usual "Sony .dsf". And guess what, the Formats Do Sound different! Philips .Dff is the "better", cleaner, more Natural sounding Format When playing. So my questions are: 1. Do I Dream? Is this possible? Can someone comfirm/disproof this? 2. What is the General difference of the two Formats? And can this impact in any way the upsampling/digital-analog-conversation? 3. Maybe it's Not a General question of upsampling/format but a Special way my Dac (T&A Dac8Dsd) is handling the different file types? Any comments are welcome! Link to comment
firedog Posted October 26, 2016 Share Posted October 26, 2016 Extremely unlikely they actually sound different. The only difference in the 2 formats is the file shell, not the data itself. DSF allows for tags, .dff doesn't. So there isn't any real difference in the way the DAC handles the files. Have you tried listening to them when you don't know which format is playing? If you can't tell which one is which "blind" a vast majority of the time, then they aren't really different. Main listening (small home office): Main setup: Surge protector +>Isol-8 Mini sub Axis Power Strip/Isolation>QuietPC Low Noise Server>Roon (Audiolense DRC)>Stack Audio Link II>Kii Control>Kii Three (on their own electric circuit) >GIK Room Treatments. Secondary Path: Server with Audiolense RC>RPi4 or analog>Cayin iDAC6 MKII (tube mode) (XLR)>Kii Three BXT Bedroom: SBTouch to Cambridge Soundworks Desktop Setup. Living Room/Kitchen: Ropieee (RPi3b+ with touchscreen) + Schiit Modi3E to a pair of Morel Hogtalare. All absolute statements about audio are false Link to comment
mansr Posted October 26, 2016 Share Posted October 26, 2016 2. What is the General difference of the two Formats? And can this impact in any way the upsampling/digital-analog-conversation? The headers are different. The bit order within bytes is different. The channel interleaving is different. None of this affects the actual data contained in the files. The formats can be converted between losslessly. 3. Maybe it's Not a General question of upsampling/format but a Special way my Dac (T&A Dac8Dsd) is handling the different file types? The DAC never sees either file format. The player software rearranges the bitstream to the format required by the DAC. Scuba 1 Link to comment
yamamoto2002 Posted October 27, 2016 Share Posted October 27, 2016 Also DFF supports DST lossless compression and DSF is not. DoP requires MSB to LSB bit ordering, so (non DST compressed) DFF to DoP conversion process (that is performed on music playback apps) is very slightly more efficient than typical DSF to DoP conversion process which requires bit-reversal. If app composes complete DoP data stream for playback on main memory before playback starts, computing task on playback becomes identical and those DSF/DFF difference disappears completely. Fig.1 Two dsd streams (Left channel and Right channel) interleaved to create SoundData chunk of DSDIFF DFF file Fig.2 Two dsd streams (Left channel and Right channel) interleaved to create Data chunk of typical DSF file My DFF read program. DST compression is not supported on this code. https://sourceforge.net/p/playpcmwin/code/HEAD/tree/PlayPcmWin/PlayPcmWin/DsdiffReader.cs My DSF read program. There is bit-reversal table there on the last part of the code. https://sourceforge.net/p/playpcmwin/code/HEAD/tree/PlayPcmWin/PlayPcmWin/DsfReader.cs Scuba 1 Sunday programmer since 1985 Developer of PlayPcmWin Link to comment
Noodeling Posted October 28, 2016 Author Share Posted October 28, 2016 Problem solved! First, I did blind Tests between dsf and dff. Result: indifferent. With Some upsampled Songs I hit 10/10 (!) with others only 4/10. Second. Some thoughts. Rating 4/10 is like guessing = there is no audible difference ! With the 10/10 blindtest Rating there Must be a difference. Third. Conclusion. Software used "XiSRC". I additionaly did hit the "ISP Reduction" Button while upsampling to 512 .dsf! That's what leads to the (Bad) different Sound! DSD .dsf and .dff do not sound different! Trank You all for your comments and helping/explaining! Link to comment
Dan Gravell Posted October 28, 2016 Share Posted October 28, 2016 Well done working it through! bliss - fully automated music organizer. Read the music library management blog. Link to comment
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