Grok Linux? Help Me Make An NAA From This Cute Little Board

[Mike Pinkerton]

This is with the iFi micro-iDSD?

 

No, it's to my NA8005 via USB. But it's not DAC-specific according to others.

[mansr]

Curious. I get nothing but static at DSD128 with my RPi3 (running Stretch) and NAA/HQP. DSD64 and below are fine. What's different about this little board that allows it to handle DSD512 where the Pi craps out much earlier?

 

-mike

 

Ethernet on the RPi3, like all RPi models, is connected via USB. To make matters worse, it has a horrible USB implementation that may well not handle the load of high-rate DSD both incoming over Ethernet and going out to the DAC.

 

You probably get best results from a board with a "real" Ethernet controller, e.g. those based on Allwinner chips or one of the Beaglebone variants.

[Mike Pinkerton]

Ethernet on the RPi3, like all RPi models, is connected via USB. To make matters worse, it has a horrible USB implementation that may well not handle the load of high-rate DSD both incoming over Ethernet and going out to the DAC.

 

You probably get best results from a board with a "real" Ethernet controller, e.g. those based on Allwinner chips or one of the Beaglebone variants.

 

I guess what I was getting at was "does the board that Jud was using fix that USB/Ethernet limitation"?

[mansr]

I guess what I was getting at was "does the board that Jud was using fix that USB/Ethernet limitation"?

The BBXM also has Ethernet over USB, but it's a much better USB implementation.

[Jud]

No, it's to my NA8005 via USB. But it's not DAC-specific according to others.

 

Hi Mike. Having an NAA does not magically make your DAC capable of DSD512 or anything else above what it was designed to do. Here are the factors I'm aware of that go into what resolution a system with NAA can handle:

 

- The highest resolution the DAC can output. For your DAC that is DSD128.

 

- The existence of drivers for the DAC in the operating system on which HQP is running to support the resolution. For example, my DAC can do DSD512 with Windows or Linux, but I believe is limited to DSD256 with Mac.

 

- The ability of the computer on which HQP is running to support upsampling to a given speed. For example my desktop upsamples most material to DSD256 without problem, but DSD512 doesn't seem to be quite possible.

 

- The throughput speed your network (including the network receiver in the NAA) will support.

 

- The noise behavior of the NAA when receiving the network signal.

 

The weakest link in the chain will dictate the maximum resolution you can achieve.

[Mike Pinkerton]

Understood on all of that. There's a boundary on the RPi that doesn't allow me to go to DSD128, likely because of the aforementioned USB/Ethernet bandwidth issues on the RPi. I was curious what was different about your board that let you blow that boundary away, and it sounds like the improved USB impl.

 

I've run DSD128 to my DAC via HQP on my Mac before, just can't get the RPi to duplicate that.

[mansr]

Understood on all of that. There's a boundary on the RPi that doesn't allow me to go to DSD128, likely because of the aforementioned USB/Ethernet bandwidth issues on the RPi. I was curious what was different about your board that let you blow that boundary away, and it sounds like the improved USB impl.

 

I've run DSD128 to my DAC via HQP on my Mac before, just can't get the RPi to duplicate that.

Have you tried using wifi on the RPi? It doesn't use USB so if that's the source of the problems, it could make a difference.

[Mike Pinkerton]

Have you tried using wifi on the RPi? It doesn't use USB so if that's the source of the problems, it could make a difference.

 

I have not, interesting suggestion. The instructions for getting it setup on my WPA network seemed convoluted so I stuck with hardwired. When I get some time I may see if that improves the situation.

 

Anyway, sorry to hijack this topic!!

-mike

[Jud]

I have not, interesting suggestion. The instructions for getting it setup on my WPA network seemed convoluted so I stuck with hardwired. When I get some time I may see if that improves the situation.

 

Anyway, sorry to hijack this topic!!

-mike

 

Not at all, topic is pretty well done, so happy to talk about whatever anyone's interested in.

[juliocat]

 

I've run DSD128 to my DAC via HQP on my Mac before, just can't get the RPi to duplicate that.

 

I get DSD 128 from my RPi 3 without any problems, which model do you have??

[Jud]

The BBXM also has Ethernet over USB, but it's a much better USB implementation.

 

It also has a regular Ethernet port, which is what I'm using. How much bleedthrough of noise there might be into the USB output because of the board connections necessary to enable Ethernet over USB, I don't know.

[Mike Pinkerton]

I get DSD 128 from my RPi 3 without any problems, which model do you have??

 

I have a B. Do you get DSD128 via HQP and NAA, because part of my suspicion is that the NAA impl just isn't very good. I initially used an older version of the NAA endpoint and i couldn't even get 24/96PCM from HQP without serious hiccups (Roon was fine with everything). A slightly newer version let me get up to 24/192 and DSD64 with HQP, but there still are occasional hiccups.

 

The DSD128 from HQP has static in one channel or both channels, which honestly doesn't sound like a bandwidth issue.

[juliocat]

Do you get DSD128 via HQP and NAA

 

I'm hearing it at this moment, the best sound i have ever hear from a computer

[Mike Pinkerton]

I'm hearing it at this moment, the best sound i have ever hear from a computer

 

Ok. What OS and NAA version are you using? I'm using Stretch and networkaudiod_3.4.0-32_armhf.deb.

[mansr]

It also has a regular Ethernet port, which is what I'm using. How much bleedthrough of noise there might be into the USB output because of the board connections necessary to enable Ethernet over USB, I don't know.

The on-board Ethernet of the BBXM is connected via an SMSC LAN9514 combined hub and Ethernet chip. The DM3730 SoC doesn't have built-in Ethernet.

[juliocat]

Ok. What OS and NAA version are you using? I'm using Stretch and networkaudiod_3.4.0-32_armhf.deb.

 

I'm using "standard" Signalyst NAA 3.4 image for raspberry Pi 3

 

https://www.signalyst.eu/bins/naa/images/

[Mike Pinkerton]

I'm using "standard" Signalyst NAA 3.4 image for raspberry Pi 3

 

https://www.signalyst.eu/bins/naa/images/

 

Ok good to know. I can't use that because i also want to use Roon directly (without HQP) and jussi's image doesn't allow a login to customize it. Thanks for the info about the improved performance of his image.

 

-mike

[Jud]

The on-board Ethernet of the BBXM is connected via an SMSC LAN9514 combined hub and Ethernet chip. The DM3730 SoC doesn't have built-in Ethernet.

 

Thanks, I appreciate the information. I'd also be interested in possible explanations for the much greater noise I got with the BBGW. Onboard activity of the wifi receiver? Connection between wifi and USB? Both?

[mansr]

Likely not ground noise. At another member's suggestion (thanks, lmitche!) I powered the BBGW via a cell phone charger/battery, so the only physical connection to the rest of the system was USB out to a Regen hooked up to the DAC, and still got the noise. Perhaps it's coming from the board's wifi receiver; wondering whether the BBGW's Ethernet-over-USB capability implies a connection between the wifi and USB sections of the board.

Have you tried it without the Regen? The wifi is connected to the SoC using SDIO so it's independent of USB.

 

I'd try playing a WAV file from an SD card using "aplay" (no NAA running) and check if that too is noisy.

[Jud]

Have you tried it without the Regen? The wifi is connected to the SoC using SDIO so it's independent of USB.

 

IIRC, I tried that (BBGW without Regen) and still got the noise. But I can test to make sure.

 

I'd try playing a WAV file from an SD card using "aplay" (no NAA running) and check if that too is noisy.

 

I may do that, but am in the middle of doing some other things, so it's another "round tuit" situation.