Newbie questions re: creating system for digitizing vinyl

[esldude]

That's the one, my version is from around 2007 or so. Another software I heard alot about is Spin it Again so you can add that one to the list as well. I'm sure they all do about the same thing and the rest is just personal preference. I just cannot stand Pure Vinyl's strange interface that's supposed to simulate a record. Not sure if you can shut that off or not.

 

+1 to that.

[dummy]

Here is another example of work flow, using Vinyl Studio. I know I sound like a salesman, but I am just a happy user. This is a bunch of screen shots with short commentary, but it shows the process. Be sure to click on the drill down at each stage. I find the process easy to use and the click repair is less expensive than using iZotope. The album/tract lookup is very valuable.

 

VinylStudio - Features and Screenshots

 

Chris - It would be nice to have an article like Mitch did using Vinyl Studio.

 

Is VinylStudio worth it over Audacity If I don't really need the albums tracks listing? Most of the LPs I need to digitize are obscure french music that I will have to tag manually in the end anyway since there is no chance the infos are available online so that's not a feature appealing to me.

 

I did try it once (free trial) and got stocked quite fast and didn't bother much and went back to Audacity.

 

My problem with Audacity is that is a bit complicated and playing with recoding level is not possible on a Mac. Couldn't get to digitize in 24/96 either...

 

So I am looking for another solution and maybe should try VinylStudio again but my first encounter wasn't great so not sure I want to buy.

[dtc]

Is VinylStudio worth it over Audacity If I don't really need the albums tracks listing? Most of the LPs I need to digitize are obscure french music that I will have to tag manually in the end anyway since there is no chance the infos are available online so that's not a feature appealing to me.

 

I did try it once (free trial) and got stocked quite fast and didn't bother much and went back to Audacity.

 

My problem with Audacity is that is a bit complicated and playing with recoding level is not possible on a Mac. Couldn't get to digitize in 24/96 either...

 

So I am looking for another solution and maybe should try VinylStudio again but my first encounter wasn't great so not sure I want to buy.

 

First, you should look at discogs.com, which is the main source of track information for VS. It has some pretty obscure stuff, but may well not have what you want.

 

I agree that VS, like any program has a learning curve. But if you follow the screenshot examples carefully, it is pretty easy to use. I use it on Windows, not a MAC. I do not think you can change the recording level - that is usually done in the A to D. But, you can normalize a file to a desired level.

 

I would look at the screen shot link and follow it through. Also take a look at discogs.com.

 

At $29, it is a very inexpensive program.

[esldude]

Is VinylStudio worth it over Audacity If I don't really need the albums tracks listing? Most of the LPs I need to digitize are obscure french music that I will have to tag manually in the end anyway since there is no chance the infos are available online so that's not a feature appealing to me.

 

I did try it once (free trial) and got stocked quite fast and didn't bother much and went back to Audacity.

 

My problem with Audacity is that is a bit complicated and playing with recoding level is not possible on a Mac. Couldn't get to digitize in 24/96 either...

 

So I am looking for another solution and maybe should try VinylStudio again but my first encounter wasn't great so not sure I want to buy.

 

 

Well, Audacity is capable of many things including doing vinyl rips. Just not tailor made for it. It does take awhile and some experience for some things to make sense, but that is true of most software. It is my opinion Vinyl studio or one of the other softwares is worth the cost because they simplify some things you want to do.

 

Now Audacity can record at any bit rate your hardware is capable of doing. It may be you needed to change some things in the MAC OS. Not a Mac guy, but have used them at times. I also don't understand the comment about not being able to play with recording level. But that is all okay, I remember when Audacity allowed me to do a couple things and was a complete mystery otherwise.

 

I think at this point, you just need to rip a few vinyl discs and it will become apparent what you need or want and develop a work flow. Take what you have that is available, setup, record some vinyl and see what you can do without spending money. No money at this point, just some experience which is a valuable teacher.

 

When you get stuck, ask questions here, plenty who can help you get past one stuck point and then another. By the time you have done two or three discs it will make lots more sense. Then maybe try the trial of Vinyl studio and see if it seems worth it to you at that point.

 

Some people do it all at once or in spurts. Some people setup gear to record every time they play a disc. They do it concurrently with any listening they do. Over time somewhat painlessly they record all their discs.

[dummy]

Thank you guys for your input.

 

The thing is I just have about 30-40 LPs I'd like to digitize so I don't really want to invest in this. I bought a Audio-Technica AT-LP60-USB last year but ended up returning it because no matter what I tried the recording level was always way too low and the results were barely okay. Now, reading a bit more about it lately, looks like the USB output was to blame. I maybe should have gone straight to my pc sound card instead. Cheap for cheap, the included ADC in the Audio-Technica is probably as good/bad as my pc sound card anyway.

 

I did digitized about 10 LPs then and apart for the recording level problem, I though the process was rather straight and somewhat easy even though Audacity has indeed a learning curve (as any other programs I suppose). Again, the results we're okay but just so. I guess for 150$ you got what you pay for. It is what It is...

 

I often download 12" inches from http://www.burningtheground.net and his 24/96 rips are always truly great! Then again, his process is much more thorough and his equipment, while basic, is up to the notch.

 

Bottom line, you're right, the more time and money you spent, the results can be really great. But since I am a lazy and cheap bastard...

 

Thanks again guys!

[dummy]

First, you should look at discogs.com, which is the main source of track information for VS. It has some pretty obscure stuff, but may well not have what you want.

 

I agree that VS, like any program has a learning curve. But if you follow the screenshot examples carefully, it is pretty easy to use. I use it on Windows, not a MAC. I do not think you can change the recording level - that is usually done in the A to D. But, you can normalize a file to a desired level.

 

I would look at the screen shot link and follow it through. Also take a look at discogs.com.

 

At $29, it is a very inexpensive program.

 

I do know Discogs - Database and Marketplace for Music on Vinyl, CD, Cassette and More quite well and even contributed a bit in the past.

 

Problem is (for me) they have this rule that every first letter of every word of every songs has to be in caps... And It's just not the case in french. Only the first letter of a song title is in cap in french. But I've been warned twice so I gave up contributing.

 

I know it's silly but a big pet peeve of mine so It drives me crazy!!!

 

Sorry to be OT here...

[dtc]

Vinyl Studio does look up albums on amazon.fr if that helps. You don't usually get tracking timings from amazon, but you can get track names. It might help.

[Audio_ELF]

Some of these points may have been raised but I will make them again anyway... :-)

 

First off, you have to ask yourself "Why do I want to transcribe my vinyl?" Do you have a collection of vinyl which is rare and unavailable in digital formal, or are you hoping to get better quality than you can get from CD?

 

If the latter, then you need to start from a point where you have good quality playback equipment and clean vinyl. Anything else is just trying to polish a turnip ... whatever you do it will still be a turnip. So with that in mind, do you have a vinyl playback system which is as good (ideally exceeds) your expectations?

 

Next you have to decide if you are happy with the record as it plays: pops, clicks and all; or if you will want to edit and correct these distortions. If you are trying to capture the experience and quality of the vinyl playback (without worrying about the distortions) then a DSD capture system would be best, if you want to do editing (beyond simply cutting tracks) then you will need PCM (or to convert DSD to PCM after capture).

 

Now IF you had an unlimited budget, then you would look at something like a Linn LP12 (or one of the other high end turntables) and a good cartridge, get a good phono stage, a Metric Halo ULN8 or Tascam DA-3000 and a good record cleaner, but this is obviously not an option for you.

 

So my advise would be (a) look what of your records you can get copies of on CD, buy as many as possible second hand, look at streaming services too for other material. For the material you can't get digitally, then look at transcribing. Start by getting your turntable set up well so that you actually enjoy playing the records and listening; that will be your benchmark. Not sure what is available where you are ... but start with something like Spin Clean Vinyl Washer System - Superfi to clean the records. If you have some in particularly dirty condition which are particularly treasured, try local record shops or hifi stores they may have a record cleaning service.

 

Now you need some method to get the "music" into your computer. Without spending a lot you can get a pretty decent 24/96 ADC - look at brands such as Focusrite and EMU as well as lower end products from RME and (if you have a Mac) Apogee. A good place to look is a local professional music store. You will need a phono-pre but if you have a integrated amp with phono input you can connect an ADC to the record loop of the amplifier.

 

One thing definitely to avoid is "all in one" recording turntables. Even if you are buying a new turntable you will get much better results from something like Pro-jects entry level turntable and phono-pre than these.

 

A couple of other comments - you asked about storage. My thought would be to store a straight recording of the record in WAV (or AIFF). This is your "master" copy and you never alter that (except for topping and tailing the rerecording and possibly splitting it into tracks). Some of this will be dependent on what software you are using of course. This master copy will be in 24/96 (or whatever resolution you feel best). Once you have the master, you can load that into your editing software and do any declicking, altering levels, etc. you need to do, convert it and save as a FLAC, reducing quality down to 16/44.1 if you prefer a smaller CD quality version - but whatever you do make sure you keep the master safe as if you want to go back do different editing you can then easily load it without having to rerecord.

[Jabs1542]

Eloise comments above +1, well done.

[dtc]

 

...

 

A couple of other comments - you asked about storage. My thought would be to store a straight recording of the record in WAV (or AIFF). This is your "master" copy and you never alter that (except for topping and tailing the rerecording and possibly splitting it into tracks). Some of this will be dependent on what software you are using of course. .

 

Vinyl studio never changes the original file. Editing is a non-destructive process. It stores all its track breaks, cleanup and tagging information in separate files. The changes are applied when you output the final tracks. There is no way to change the original file. Its one of the features I like about VS.

[Audio_ELF]

Vinyl studio never changes the original file. Editing is a non-destructive process. It stores all its track breaks, cleanup and tagging information in separate files. The changes are applied when you output the final tracks. There is no way to change the original file. Its one of the features I like about VS.

I was unaware of that. Having said that a master copy in a generic format is never a bad thing (IMO).

[dtc]

I was unaware of that. Having said that a master copy in a generic format is never a bad thing (IMO).

 

I always keep a backup of the original and the change files. I like the idea that it never changes the original. It is a elegant design.

[StephenJK]

I was unaware of that. Having said that a master copy in a generic format is never a bad thing (IMO).

 

Yes, of course. I record using a Korg MR-2000S using their 1 bit/5.66 MHz format. I save that file before doing any converting or processing. After conversion and mastering with VinylStudio it becomes a 24/96 FLAC. I just couldn't stand the thought of having to record over 900 LP's (and counting) all over again.

 

And, it also gives me the opportunity to play that original DSD file should I choose to.

 

As has been mentioned many times, storage is cheap, whether with an NAS, RAID or simply with standalone drives.

[jbuhl]

Some of these points may have been raised but I will make them again anyway... :-)

 

(snippage)

So my advise would be (a) look what of your records you can get copies of on CD, buy as many as possible second hand, look at streaming services too for other material. (snippage).

 

I just used VinylStudio to record the Beatles original Revolver Album. I used a Project TT Pearl cartridge >>NAD pp3i with analog cables into my Macs MC port. I recorded FLAC at 24/96 Khz.

 

I played the Flac Files back with Jriver Media Center >USB>Peachtree iDAC>Rotel Preamp and class D amp > B&W603.

and the sound was virtually the same. With one pass VS clears out the popping and cracking off the album as well.

 

I then compared the original vinyl and FLAC to DEEZER Elite and the remastered Revolver album. DEEZER elite streams FLAC at 16bit/48Khz. I ran a diagnostic on SONOS and they verified DEEZER was streaming FLAC. The SONOS was going digital out to the same DAC.

 

I was surprised how much better the DEEZER remaster version was than both original vinyl and digital. Ringos drums were veiled and way in the back on the original. The remaster moves him into the sound stage and removes the veil.

 

I think DEEZER has product agreements (SONOS and others) where they only stream FLAC 16/48.

DEEZER is a little more expensive , $15/month but I think it worth it.

[dtc]

Yes, of course. I record using a Korg MR-2000S using their 1 bit/5.66 MHz format. I save that file before doing any converting or processing. After conversion and mastering with VinylStudio it becomes a 24/96 FLAC. I just couldn't stand the thought of having to record over 900 LP's (and counting) all over again.

 

And, it also gives me the opportunity to play that original DSD file should I choose to.

 

As has been mentioned many times, storage is cheap, whether with an NAS, RAID or simply with standalone drives.

 

I also us a MR-2000s. I record quiet albums to 5.6MHz but if there is too much noise (e.g. old rock) I just record in PCM. When you convert to PCM what do you use to low pass filter out the high frequency noise? It is one feature I wish Vinyl Studio had. I currently filter on output in JRiver.

[dtc]

I just used VinylStudio to record the Beatles original Revolver Album. I used a Project TT Pearl cartridge >>NAD pp3i with analog cables into my Macs MC port. I recorded FLAC at 24/96 Khz.

 

I played the Flac Files back with Jriver Media Center >USB>Peachtree iDAC>Rotel Preamp and class D amp > B&W603.

and the sound was virtually the same. With one pass VS clears out the popping and cracking off the album as well.

 

I then compared the original vinyl and FLAC to DEEZER Elite and the remastered Revolver album. DEEZER elite streams FLAC at 16bit/48Khz. I ran a diagnostic on SONOS and they verified DEEZER was streaming FLAC. The SONOS was going digital out to the same DAC.

 

I was surprised how much better the DEEZER remaster version was than both original vinyl and digital. Ringos drums were veiled and way in the back on the original. The remaster moves him into the sound stage and removes the veil.

 

I think DEEZER has product agreements (SONOS and others) where they only stream FLAC 16/48.

DEEZER is a little more expensive , $15/month but I think it worth it.

 

They did a very good job in remastering the Beatles albums. That is why I got the mono CD set rather than digitalizing my old vinyl. Most of those belonged to my wife and she was of the put a penny on the tonearm crowd. Not all remasters are as well done. It would be fun to compare the remasters on vinyl with the CDs or your Deezer streaming.

[StephenJK]

I also us a MR-2000s. I record quiet albums to 5.6MHz but if there is too much noise (e.g. old rock) I just record in PCM. When you convert to PCM what do you use to low pass filter out the high frequency noise? It is one feature I wish Vinyl Studio had. I currently filter on output in JRiver.

 

I take the DSD file and convert it with AudioGate to a 24/96 FLAC with all settings kept flat. The only cleanup I do of any kind is with VinylStudio using the crackle filter only with the percussion and brass protection turned on.

 

I don't normally ever play the DSD files, but I do keep them stored away. Generally speaking, most of my records would be considered as VG+ or better, most are EX or NM. That seems to have worked well for me. I would say that virtually all albums are a bit better due to the crackle filter or with no change.

 

On playback I leave JRiver flat as well, but I do have two filters on my Arcam FMJ D33 DAC that I do use, perhaps that's what makes the difference.

[YashN]

Just saw an intriguing device today in my news streams: Sony released a vinyl turntable which can capture straight to DSD.

[YashN]

I don't normally ever play the DSD files, but I do keep them stored away.

 

You should try that with a native DSD DAC.

[dtc]

I take the DSD file and convert it with AudioGate to a 24/96 FLAC with all settings kept flat. The only cleanup I do of any kind is with VinylStudio using the crackle filter only with the percussion and brass protection turned on.

 

I don't normally ever play the DSD files, but I do keep them stored away. Generally speaking, most of my records would be considered as VG+ or better, most are EX or NM. That seems to have worked well for me. I would say that virtually all albums are a bit better due to the crackle filter or with no change.

 

On playback I leave JRiver flat as well, but I do have two filters on my Arcam FMJ D33 DAC that I do use, perhaps that's what makes the difference.

 

Look at the spectrum of a track in VS. You will probably see noise increasing at high frequencies. This comes from the DSD process. I use 192 KHz and the noise is obvious at 50 KHz and above. I therefore use a low pass filter in DSP studio to cut that out. The SACD standard is, I believe, a low pass filter at 50 KHz with a slope of 48 dB/octave. Not sure what you Arcam DAC does with that noise. I cut it out, just in case. May not be an issue, but it is best not to push too much very high frequency to your speakers.

[dtc]

Just saw an intriguing device today in my news streams: Sony released a vinyl turntable which can capture straight to DSD.

 

The problem with DSD is that you cannot cleanup the files. That is, you cannot remove hiss, hum, pop and clicks. To do that you need to convert to PCM. I started with DSD but ended up using PCM most of the time. I wanted to remove the noise, even if there is not much of it.

[YashN]

The problem with DSD is that you cannot cleanup the files. That is, you cannot remove hiss, hum, pop and clicks. To do that you need to convert to PCM. I started with DSD but ended up using PCM most of the time. I wanted to remove the noise, even if there is not much of it.

 

 

True, true. The best thing is probably if you can get the recordings in native DSD.

 

Cleaning up in PCM is a good compromise.

[Rock Bottom]

WHY?

 

Recording obscure and/or rare LPs I can understand otherwise the logic behind converting vinyl to digital escapes me. It's adverse to both analog and digital high fidelity. A well recorded & mastered digital release is far superior in SQ to a digitally copied LP, and the principal reason for playing vinyl IS the analog process.

[dtc]

WHY?

 

Recording obscure and/or rare LPs I can understand otherwise the logic behind converting vinyl to digital escapes me. It's adverse to both analog and digital high fidelity. A well recorded & mastered digital release is far superior in SQ to a digitally copied LP, and the principal reason for playing vinyl IS the analog process.

 

There are several reasons.

 

Once you have a setup it can be cheaper to digitize the vinyl than to buy a new CD or even a used CD. At $5 a record, my equpiment is paid for. Every vinyl I do is now free. Plus, I can sell the A to D and recoup much of the cost.

 

Sometimes there are not very good digital copies available. Digitizing at 24/96 can produced a better end product than a average 16/44 CD. Especially in the early years, CD quality was just not that good and many re-releases were not remastered.

 

Analog does sound different and with proper equipment you can capture that difference when digitizing at 24/96 or 24/192. I can often tell the difference between the CDs and digitized vinyl and often prefer the digitized vinyl.

 

Very good vinyl can be converted to DSD which some people think sounds better than PCM. Very little is commercially available as DSD.

 

There is a lot of classical music that is not easily available on CD. They performances do not have to be really rare. It is just that a huge amount of classical came out on vinyl and many of those performances were simply never transferred to CD.

 

You might not find any of those reasons compelling but many do.

[Jabs1542]

another compelling reason to copy - So you can listen to one of your favorite albums while on the move (portable player or car). My portable vinyl rig, for use while skiing, really sucks