JRiver DLNA vs HDMI

[jcdelgad2000]

Hello everyone,

 

Long time lurker. Love the amount of knowledge I have acquired from the forum members and I thought I’d take a dive in the water and see if someone can answer something that’s been puzzling me for a bit.

 

My wife surprised me with a Yamaha RX V677 for Christmas and until we buy a house in a few months, it will be part of my “main system.” I use JRiver on a run of the mill HP Compaq desktop SFF with a cheap Radeon HDMI video card I added. I immediately connected the PC via HDMI to the Yamaha (two channels, a pair of NHT VT-2 floor speakers) and after a couple of days of tweaking, I was happy. However, a few days later, just for kicks, I connected a $20 Muse USB to SPDIF (Coax) from the PC to the Yamaha (WASAPI) and it sounded noticeably better. In fact, even 24/192 files that the HDMI cable can play without changing the output sample rate sound better with the Muse that does have to downsample to 48Kh.

 

I spent a few days researching online why that could be and only find a few examples of forum posts where people do the typical back and forth arguing about HDMI jitter levels and whether coax can be better, worse, etc. But here’s the kicker: I then try playing the files using the Yamaha as a DLNA renderer with the Yamaha AV controller phone app and that sounds even better.

 

Is this as a matter of, as a couple of people stated in the Chromecast thread, “getting the PC out of the way”? Any reason why the cheap Muse USB to coax would sound better than the HDMI? Any other thoughts?

I am starting to think that my idea to eventually get a better PC and an expensive DAC is not worth it. Maybe I am better investing in a DLNA renderer and keeping my files stored on the cheap PC.

 

Thanks

jc

[jcdelgad2000]

bump.. nobody?

[master]

You have just discovered something that many of us have been harping about. Wireless streaming (using Chromecast Audio or AVR with DLNA) rocks, and even more so when the source is separated (like an external NAS, external HDD with Raspberry Pi and running the excellent MinimServer).

 

Just enjoy the music.

 

I would encourage looking into adding an external NAS and Raspberry Pi for starters. In fact you can get started for as little as $35 with only the Raspberry Pi and plug in an external HDD (via USB) that you already have. This alone will raise the performance of the system quite a few notches.

 

PS: From my own personal experience, I prefer optical (Toslink) for audio. Coaxial is also fine, but Toslink is better IMHO. HDMI and USB are pretty average, or in the case of USB requires additional tools like reclockers, power isolators/cleaners, etc. I have heard excellent USB DACs, but only at a certain price point, leading me to believe they are built to address what USB reclockers and isolators do.

[Audio_ELF]

HDMI often has a issue with high jitter. Even a simple USB to SPDIF converter can improve on that.

 

Generally I would put connection types in the following order in terms of quality...

HDMI <<< TOSLink << SPDIF (Coax) / AES <=> USB

 

That is USB can be the best (but depends on implementation) a little better than SPDIF or AES which is a little better than TOSLink (though again depending on implementation TOSLink can be better due to electrical isolation) and all are better than most HDMI implementations mainly due to the limitations of clocking methods used with HDMI.

[jcdelgad2000]

Thank you for the responses. You read in the more mainstream electronics websites like CNET to always go with HDMI if you have the option.

 

Its not that the HDMI sounded "bad" or anything, but it was dull and had no presence. Sounded like my old $200 HK AVR. I had just recently purchased that Muse USB to SPDIF converter and tried it, and it was definitely an improvement. I just could not believe the improvement the DLNA streaming made. Is it also a matter of the internal DAC in the Yamaha AVR?

 

I always subscribed to the notion that wired connections are more stable, therefore, "better" than wireless. Having said that, does it matter that the Yamaha AVR is connected via ethernet cable to the same Xfinity modem/router as the PC? The Yamaha AVR also brings a small wifi antenna thingy but I never bothered connecting it. I guess I can try unplugging from the router and connecting the wifi antenna to the back of the Yamaha and see if it makes a difference.

 

I would encourage looking into adding an external NAS and Raspberry Pi for starters. In fact you can get started for as little as $35 with only the Raspberry Pi and plug in an external HDD (via USB) that you already have. This alone will raise the performance of the system quite a few notches.

 

Can you elaborate on this a bit, please? I did some research and found this link A Beginner's Guide to DIYing with the Raspberry Pi saying that I need to install Raspbian, a Raspberry Pi-focused version of Linux. Is this necessary for what I'm trying to do? (I swear I am not being lazy. I am doing my research but really have no idea what to read up on)

 

Would the Raspberry then be the DLNA server? Would I be plugging the HDD with all the music files into the Raspberry or the NAS? What about the PC I have now? Would that be completely out of the equation now? and JRiver?

 

A very annoying thing now is that as much as I love the JRiver GUI, and after months of learning how to use it, I cannot use it as a controller. The first couple of files I select will be fine, but then it will inevitably crash if I keep using it. I end up having to use the Yamaha app, which is obviously not as "fun"

 

Again, I really appreciate any info/knowledge you can share with me. I know this is all soooo basic for you, but its still quite a handful for me to absorb.

 

jc

[Audio_ELF]

Thank you for the responses. You read in the more mainstream electronics websites like CNET to always go with HDMI if you have the option.

Well in the "mainstream" HDMI supports several formats that other options don't allow. The transmission of high res audio from BluRay being the prime example. It's also convenient in offering single cable for audio and video.

[master]

Start with this. Will give you a fair idea of what you need and also set your expectations.

 

Review: Raspberry Pi 2 as Music Streamer | Part-Time Audiophile

 

Lots of YouTube videos you can watch on the Pi.

 

Moode Audio Player for Raspberry Pi on CA @ http://www.computeraudiophile.com/f11-software/moode-audio-player-raspberry-pi-23858/.

 

Yes, the Raspberry Pi would become the DLNA server. You will need an Android smartphone and the BubbleUPNP to control the Raspberry Pi.

 

To start with, connect any external HDD that you already own to the Pi. If you like what you hear, then you can look into scaling it up with an external NAS and additional hardware.

[davide256]

1. JRiver has one of the best UI's for a media player

2. JRiver's roots are in PC hardware for audio playback, they do good things with windows drivers

3. JRiver is a latecomer to UPNP streaming. I gave up on them at release 19 for UPNP streaming as Foobar2000

and other options sounded better

 

My two cents would be that if you like Jriver as many do, use HDMI for your video to big screen, asynch USB to SPDIF converter for your audio with the DVR and buy a Windows remote controller to manage playback in theater mode.

[jcdelgad2000]

thanks again, everyone... I feel like a whole new world has opened up before my eyes. I began this hobby a couple of years ago by connecting a cheap Muse DAC from my HP Compaq Pro 6005 to a refurbished 1978 Advent 300. I spent a couple of weeks ripping all my CDs to FLAC and thought this was the greatest thing. Now I'm discussing DIY Raspberry PI projects, DLNA, downloading BubbleUPnP, NAS, etc.. and it's really exciting.

 

@Master... I got my wife to sit and watch a couple hours worth of Pi YouTube videos (OK, so I had to compromise and watch "Top ten cutest Golden Retrievers" a couple of times, but hey, isn't marriage all about compromises?). I also downloaded BubbleUP (paid) app. Its great. However, it still crashes sometimes when I select JRiver as library and Yamaha as renderer. That never happened using the Yamaha AVR controller app. (Android)

Also, I use Gizmo in the car to access my library remotely. I did not find a way to do that with BubbleUP. Is there a way to integrate Gizmo into the BubbleUP app?

 

@Davide... interesting stuff. Is JRiver expected to "catch up" as far as UPnP streaming? In your experience, do you prefer to play back files locally via USB to SPIDF or stream UPnP with Foobar? I imagine you also need to compare apples to apples. A high end DAC solution will be superior to an average DLNA setup, just as streaming via an Aurender or something similar will beat most DACs?

 

Not sure what you mean by a Windows remote controller. An Android app? A physical remote?

 

@Eloise.... I guess I can leave the HDMI solutions strictly for video playback. and audio from BluRay player for the few movies we watch.

[master]

Install MinimServer (can be installed on PC, laptop, Raspberry Pi, NAS, etc.) and then use BubbleUPNP. Honestly, never had any issues of BubbleUPNP ever crashing, it is extremely stable, and the best of all controller apps.

 

You can set up access to your library remotely via BubbleUPNP. You will need to set up BubbleUPNP server and then configure the app. Just Google it, you'll find tutorials and videos that walk you through it.

 

An easier way to do this is to simply upload all of your music to Google Music (up to 50,000 tracks) and you can stream them over your smartphone, however, this will be limited to MP3 quality.

[davide256]

thanks again, everyone...

@Davide... interesting stuff. Is JRiver expected to "catch up" as far as UPnP streaming? In your experience, do you prefer to play back files locally via USB to SPIDF or stream UPnP with Foobar? I imagine you also need to compare apples to apples. A high end DAC solution will be superior to an average DLNA setup, just as streaming via an Aurender or something similar will beat most DACs?

 

Not sure what you mean by a Windows remote controller. An Android app? A physical remote?

 

....

 

Kind of like asking why your SUV can't corner like a sports car... core JRiver software originated for a different purpose than streaming. I'd stick with Jriver until you find something that you don't like about your playback and have a compelling reason to plunge into solution designed bottom up for streaming.

 

Windows physical remote will work with Jriver in theater mode

 

Amazon.com: Rosewill RRC-126 MCE Infrared Remote Control with Netflix Function for Windows Vista/Window7 MCE/Windows 8, Black: Electronics

[jcdelgad2000]

Install MinimServer (can be installed on PC, laptop, Raspberry Pi, NAS, etc.) and then use BubbleUPNP. Honestly, never had any issues of BubbleUPNP ever crashing, it is extremely stable, and the best of all controller apps.

 

I downloaded BubbleUPnP server on my WIN10 PC, and the BubbleUPnP Android app. I'm confused, though. Is the idea to download Bubble server OR the Minimserver? or both? Whats the library that the phone app will access? And I can still access the JRiver library. Should I disable the media network section in the JRiver web GUI? Is there any sort of conflict by having multiple server libraries accessible?

 

I have been using Gizmo to access JRiver remotely (makes the morning drive to the office very enjoyable). Basically, Bubble app will be my new Gizmo, only now I can access my home library AND different cloud/streaming options?

 

I have been reading up as much as I can, but it feels like the more I learn, the more confused I get.

[master]

I downloaded BubbleUPnP server on my WIN10 PC, and the BubbleUPnP Android app. I'm confused, though. Is the idea to download Bubble server OR the Minimserver? or both? Whats the library that the phone app will access? And I can still access the JRiver library. Should I disable the media network section in the JRiver web GUI? Is there any sort of conflict by having multiple server libraries accessible?

 

I have been using Gizmo to access JRiver remotely (makes the morning drive to the office very enjoyable). Basically, Bubble app will be my new Gizmo, only now I can access my home library AND different cloud/streaming options?

 

I have been reading up as much as I can, but it feels like the more I learn, the more confused I get.

 

MinimServer is a better alternative, and you can dispense with the others. Install it on your PC, and use the BubbleUPNP app. The rest of the setup will remain the same.

 

Regarding remote access, I don't believe MinimServer supports it. As stated above, Google Music is a better alternative or you can stick with Gizmo.

 

But do give MinimServer I try, it is quite the forum favorite, and with good reason.

[davide256]

In a streaming setup you have the following pieces

 

1. the file server... where do you get the music from. As master stated minimserver is a good choice for the file server software

and it sounds like you will be using this on your existing PC

 

2. the media player... where do you send the digital file to to convert it to music. In your case this sounds like it will be the Yamaha RX V677

 

A word of caution; integrated solutions like the Yamaha will have less functionality than built to purpose streamers. You may not get gap less playback and some formats may not play

 

3. the controller; something has to tell the media player to queue and play files from the file server. Bubble UPNP is a good all around choice in android phone app. Kinsky is better for fidelity but requires the media player to support "Open Home" extensions which the Yamaha most likely does not.

[Cebolla]

Dave

 

In the interest of clarity as far as UPnP music file streaming is concerned, the UPnP devices are (using your numbers for the same devices):

1. UPnP media server, aka UPnP AV media server

2. UPnP renderer, aka network audio player, aka streamer

3. UPnP control point, aka UPnP controller

 

Not sure why you cite the Kinsky controller app as being 'better for fidelity'. As far as music file playback is concerned, the UPnP controller only instructs the UPnP renderer as to which files to fetch from the UPnP media server for the renderer to decode and play. So the music file is streamed directly from the UPnP media server by the UPnP renderer. The UPnP controller is not involved in the production of the digital audio signal being generated by the UPnP renderer decoding the received music file during playback.

 

Also, the Kinsky app does support standard UPnP streaming as well as OpenHome (aka UPnP with Linn extensions). The reason why it's not usually recommended for standard UPnP renderers, is that it can be quite buggy in that mode with some (standard UPnP) streamers. Incidentally, the BubbleUPnP app also supports both OpenHome and standard UPnP streaming. However, unlike Kinsky, it can be used equally well with both types of streamers.

 

John

[Cebolla]

I downloaded BubbleUPnP server on my WIN10 PC, and the BubbleUPnP Android app. I'm confused, though. Is the idea to download Bubble server OR the Minimserver? or both? Whats the library that the phone app will access? And I can still access the JRiver library. Should I disable the media network section in the JRiver web GUI? Is there any sort of conflict by having multiple server libraries accessible?

 

I have been using Gizmo to access JRiver remotely (makes the morning drive to the office very enjoyable). Basically, Bubble app will be my new Gizmo, only now I can access my home library AND different cloud/streaming options?

 

I have been reading up as much as I can, but it feels like the more I learn, the more confused I get.

The BubbleUPnP Server, does not provide a media library as it isn't a UPnP media server. Quote from the BubbleUPnP Server's own website, "BUBBLEUPNP SERVER IS NOT AN UPNP AV MEDIA SERVER":

http://www.bubblesoftapps.com/bubbleupnpserver/#what_is_bubble_upnp_server

 

The BubbleUPnP Server is an application that provides helper functions to assist in UPnP network file streaming and also provide enhancements to the similarly named (but not to be confused with) BubbleUPnP Android app. One of those enhancements that the BubbleUPnP Server provides is to use the BubbleUPnP Android app to securely gain remote access over the internet to any UPnP media server running on your home network:

BubbleUPnP Server

 

So that's to any UPnP media server on your home network, which would include JRiver as that has a built in UPnP media server and of course MinimServer, if you choose to install it. There should be no issue running more than one UPnP media server on the same network, as far as UPnP streaming conflicts are concerned, not even if you choose to run them on the same machine.

 

Yes, the BubbleUPnP Android app when used as suggested, as a UPnP controller, can be used instead of the Gizmo app, but only to access the JRiver's media library through JRiver's built-in UPnP media server. You can't expect the BubbleUPnP app to do everything that Gizmo does as a proper remote control for JRiver. The BubbleUPnP app (or any other UPnP controller) won't be able to control anything on JRiver that's got nothing to do with UPnP streaming.

[rn701]

Connect PC to AVR via HDMI. Set Jriver to output to the AVR using WASAPI exclusive mode. In Windows control panel, set that sound device to allow exclusive mode.

 

This bypasses Windows digital processing and effects (which are probably why you are hearing differences) and just sends the bits to the AVR DAC which is a good quality DAC.

 

No need to complicate the signal path with DLNA, transcoding, complicated settings, etc.

 

Also regarding external DAC, going from external DAC to AVR analog in causes some (most?) AVRs to convert it back to digital for digital sound processing, EQ, room correction, etc. Lots of conversions and reconversions.

 

Or never mind all that and just go back to the first paragraph, do that, and enjoy listening to the music and the excellent sound from your setup.

[master]

^^^ Actually MinimServer is easy to install... takes all of 2 mins. All you need is BubbleUPnP, Wi-Fi capable DAC or AVR, or easily fixed with something like Chromecast Audio.

 

HDMI pretty much sucked for me (tried on PC, laptop, and even the Raspberry Pi). In fact, some of the Linux distro's like moOde and Rune don't even output audio via HDMI. It's not a universal thing, works for some, but many cannot get it to sing via HDMI.

 

MinimServer OTOH takes all of 2 minutes to set up and be up and running (okay a little bit longer if you have an extremely large library to scan).

[jcdelgad2000]

The BubbleUPnP Server is an application that provides helper functions to assist in UPnP network file streaming and also provide enhancements to the similarly named (but not to be confused with) BubbleUPnP Android app.

 

So I do not NEED to have BubbleUPnP server installed on my PC at home (wifi) in order to use the Bubble Android app to control my JRiver library and push the files to the Yamaha renderer? I have been trying to use the app that way at home, but JRiver will inevitably begin to stutter and crash. Interestingly, I used to at least be able to select a few files with no problems before it began doing that, but now it happens right away. Using the JRiver PC GUI also gives me problems when trying to stream DLNA. In fact, the only controller that does NOT give me any problems with JRiver is the Yamaha AV android app. However, its very basic and it does not, as my wife likes to say to annoy me.. have "all the pretty pictures" (cover art). More and more I see what Davide256 wrote earlier in the thread about JRiver not being good for streaming.

 

If the files were actually stored somewhere separately, such as a Rpi2 or a NAS or another PC, would I still likely have the same problem? Is the problem really with the PC not having enough CPU "power" to handle what it is being asked to do? I created a JRiver proxy server in BubbleUPnP settings hoping it would help. (yes... I really like JRiver and am trying hard to keep using it)

 

I am having issues installing both BubbleUPnP server and Minim on my PC. Every time I try to install Minim server, I get a java lang error. I am at work so I do not have the exact error but whatever it was, I Googled it and it seems to be a common error. The link I found that really went into detail was in a "java code geeks" website, so of course it went totally over my head. Are there any other similar options to Minim? Before using JRiver, I used to use Foobar. I guess I could always go back to that...

 

Connect PC to AVR via HDMI. Set Jriver to output to the AVR using WASAPI exclusive mode. In Windows control panel, set that sound device to allow exclusive mode.

 

In my OP, I stated that the first thing I did when getting the Yamaha was just that. I was happy with it, but not ecstatic. I tried using the Muse USB to SPDIF converter just to see, and it sounded better. Noticeably better. Then I tried streaming via DLNA to the Yamaha and THAT sounded better. Actually, the best sound has been streaming with the Pure Direct option in the Yamaha. (However, I bought a nice Mirage Omni S-10 sub and it will not work in Pure Direct mode) Believe me, using HDMI would be the simplest solution for me.

[rn701]

 

In my OP, I stated that the first thing I did when getting the Yamaha was just that. I was happy with it, but not ecstatic. I tried using the Muse USB to SPDIF converter just to see, and it sounded better. Noticeably better. Then I tried streaming via DLNA to the Yamaha and THAT sounded better. Actually, the best sound has been streaming with the Pure Direct option in the Yamaha. (However, I bought a nice Mirage Omni S-10 sub and it will not work in Pure Direct mode) Believe me, using HDMI would be the simplest solution for me.

 

Just sayin' there's likely something different about the settings in JRiver, your PC Sound Device, or your AVR that is causing a difference in the preferred sound quality with different paths. That's a nice receiver with good DACs. There is no reason you shouldn't be able to get the sound you prefer with HDMI. May just have to tweak the settings. Good luck!

[jcdelgad2000]

Just sayin' there's likely something different about the settings in JRiver, your PC Sound Device, or your AVR that is causing a difference in the preferred sound quality with different paths. That's a nice receiver with good DACs.

 

rn701... Did not mean to come off as snarky, I apologize if it came across that way. I just really do not think that HDMI is the way to go, as Eloise and others have more eloquently stated previously. Again, all of us involved in this hobby understand that what sounds great to 95% (98%?) of the population just does not quite do it for us. I dont know if its dynamics that are missing, or "presence" or what, but it just doesn't sound as good as when I stream via DLNA.

 

I kept having java issues with Minimserver (or maybe I was just doing something wrong) but I got frustrated and uninstalled it. I installed Subsonic and so far, so good. I can access it remotely via BubbleUPnP app on phone. However, a couple of questions for anyone that has used Subsonic... I disabled the max bitrate audio option but whenever I click on the metadata on BubbleUPnP, it reads MP3. Come to think of it, when I was accessing JRiver with BubbleUPnP, it always read WAV. But I am a fan of WAV, so I did not think much of it.

 

Also, Subsonic does not organize library the way JRiver does. When I select an artist, it leads me to the actual folder structure on my hard drive. Why cant it do what JRiver does, and organize that way. If I have a screwed up, convoluted folder directory path to a song, then I have to navigate that path on the app. JRiver will find it wherever it is and list them in a user-friendly way.

[Cebolla]

So I do not NEED to have BubbleUPnP server installed on my PC at home (wifi) in order to use the Bubble Android app to control my JRiver library and push the files to the Yamaha renderer? I have been trying to use the app that way at home, but JRiver will inevitably begin to stutter and crash. Interestingly, I used to at least be able to select a few files with no problems before it began doing that, but now it happens right away. Using the JRiver PC GUI also gives me problems when trying to stream DLNA. In fact, the only controller that does NOT give me any problems with JRiver is the Yamaha AV android app. However, its very basic and it does not, as my wife likes to say to annoy me.. have "all the pretty pictures" (cover art).

That's correct, you don't need the BubbleUPnP Server for 'normal' UPnP streaming, when using the BubbleUPnP Android app as the controller (nor using any other UPnP controller for that matter). You mentioned earlier wanting remote access over the internet to the home UPnP media server, so the BubbleUPnP Server was suggested as that is one of the enhanced functions it provides for the BubbleUPnP Android app.

 

When you say JRiver begins to stutter, don't you actually mean the Yamaha Renderer is stuttering, as it's the renderer not the UPnP media server that's playing the music files? Also, exactly what do you mean by JRiver crashing?

 

I think the issue might actually be a streaming problem with the Yamaha , when being used as a DLNA Digital Media Renderer (DMR), ie, when using a UPnP controller, such as in the BubbleUPnP Android app & in JRiver's UI, to 'push' files to the Yamaha renderer as the 'slave'. I strongly suspect that the Yamaha's own app, is not actually a UPnP controller, but a 'normal' remote control for the Yamaha, so being used as a DLNA Digital Media Player (DMP), 'pulling' the files to itself as the 'master'. Therefore the Yamaha is streaming properly as a DMP/'pull mode', but not as a DMR/'push mode'.

 

What music file types are you actually streaming (you mentioned ripping your CDs to FLAC) and at what resolution?

Have you noticed if there any file types/resoltions in particular that may be causing the streaming problem?

Have you enabled any transcoding settings, either in JRiver or in BubbleUPnP Server (if you are using a proxied JRiver UPnP media server) and if so, what file type are the original files being transcoded to?

It has be known for some DLNA streamers to support a different set of media file types and resolutions when used as DMRs to when they are used as DMPs.

 

 

More and more I see what Davide256 wrote earlier in the thread about JRiver not being good for streaming.

 

If the files were actually stored somewhere separately, such as a Rpi2 or a NAS or another PC, would I still likely have the same problem? Is the problem really with the PC not having enough CPU "power" to handle what it is being asked to do? I created a JRiver proxy server in BubbleUPnP settings hoping it would help. (yes... I really like JRiver and am trying hard to keep using it)

Davide256 mentioned giving up on JRiver for UPnP streaming 'as Foobar2000 and other options sounded better', so more a subjective impression rather than actual technical problems getting JRiver's UPnP streaming support working. Using the BubbleUPnP Server's UPnP media server proxy function can correct some issues with misbehaving UPnP media servers. However, I wouldn't put JRiver's UPnP media server in that category and especially not when used with a decent controller like the BubbleUPnP Android app. In fact, the developer of BubbleUPnP has been quite active on the JRiver forums to advise on JRiver's development of UPnP streaming.

 

 

I am having issues installing both BubbleUPnP server and Minim on my PC. Every time I try to install Minim server, I get a java lang error. I am at work so I do not have the exact error but whatever it was, I Googled it and it seems to be a common error. The link I found that really went into detail was in a "java code geeks" website, so of course it went totally over my head. Are there any other similar options to Minim? Before using JRiver, I used to use Foobar. I guess I could always go back to that...

BubbleUPnP Server is only available for 32-bit Java Runtime Environment. Seeing as you have BubbleUPnP Server installed and apparently working, this would imply that you have the correct 32-bit version of the Java Runtime already installed on your Windows machine.

You need to install the 32-bit (and not the 64-bit) version of MinimServer, given that you are restricted to using 32-bit JRE because of BubbleUPnP Server. This'll likely explain why you are getting the errors if you did instead try installing 64-bit MinimServer on the Windows machine with an existing 32-bit Java Runtime:

Installing MinimServer on Windows

 

You should be able to use Foobar2000 as alternative UPnP media server on Windows, if you install the foo_UPnP plugin component. Other UPnP media servers to try on Windows include Asset UPnP, Serviio and Plex.

[Cebolla]

However, a couple of questions for anyone that has used Subsonic... I disabled the max bitrate audio option but whenever I click on the metadata on BubbleUPnP, it reads MP3. Come to think of it, when I was accessing JRiver with BubbleUPnP, it always read WAV. But I am a fan of WAV, so I did not think much of it.

Unfortunately, I'm not familiar with Subsonic, but something in your streaming setup appears to be transcoding. For example are your music files stored as FLAC, so getting FLAC to WAV transcoding with JRiver as the UPnP media server and FLAC to MP3 transcoding when using Subsonic as the UPnP media server?

 

Also, you didn't mention if you are getting the stuttering issue when using Subsonic. Has that now stopped, presumably because your Yamaha is now streaming MP3 files?

[rn701]

I kept having java issues with Minimserver (or maybe I was just doing something wrong) but I got frustrated and uninstalled it. I installed Subsonic and so far, so good. I can access it remotely via BubbleUPnP app on phone. However, a couple of questions for anyone that has used Subsonic... I disabled the max bitrate audio option but whenever I click on the metadata on BubbleUPnP, it reads MP3. Come to think of it, when I was accessing JRiver with BubbleUPnP, it always read WAV. But I am a fan of WAV, so I did not think much of it.

 

Also, Subsonic does not organize library the way JRiver does. When I select an artist, it leads me to the actual folder structure on my hard drive. Why cant it do what JRiver does, and organize that way. If I have a screwed up, convoluted folder directory path to a song, then I have to navigate that path on the app. JRiver will find it wherever it is and list them in a user-friendly way.

 

Curious why you don't just use JRiver as your DLNA source/server if you already have it installed? You can control the transcoding to be whatever you want or none at all. You can also use the JRiver remote or the even better EOS remote, or BubbleUPNP if you prefer.

 

Anyway, the main thing is to go with whatever path sounds best to you. Good luck.

[jcdelgad2000]

I think the issue might actually be a streaming problem with the Yamaha , when being used as a DLNA Digital Media Renderer (DMR), ie, when using a UPnP controller, such as in the BubbleUPnP Android app & in JRiver's UI, to 'push' files to the Yamaha renderer as the 'slave'. I strongly suspect that the Yamaha's own app, is not actually a UPnP controller, but a 'normal' remote control for the Yamaha, so being used as a DLNA Digital Media Player (DMP), 'pulling' the files to itself as the 'master'. Therefore the Yamaha is streaming properly as a DMP/'pull mode', but not as a DMR/'push mode'.

 

Interesting. Is that common in mid-fi AVRs? For example, the Aventenge line is the top Yamaha line of AVRs (in case you didn't know), and I wonder if those models would have the same issue. I started all this because I felt listening to all my files streaming via DLNA sounded better than streaming direct from PC to my new AVR. However, I was puzzled by the fact that even though I could control/play music using the Yamaha AV Android app, when I controlled JRiver with the mouse on my PC screen it would inevitably stutter. Sometimes, it would stutter a few times and then play fine after; sometimes, it would continue to stutter until I got tired of trying to wait it out, and the screen would go gray with the "Media Center has stopped working" error onscreen. If what you say is true (and the more I think about it, you are obviously correct), then there is no way to control JRiver, or any other server for that matter, that streaming direct via DAC to AVR, or controlling directly on the DLNA DMP, whether its the Yamaha in this case or any other network streamer I would use?

 

Have you enabled any transcoding settings, either in JRiver or in BubbleUPnP Server (if you are using a proxied JRiver UPnP media server) and if so, what file type are the original files being transcoded to?

 

In the JRiver (Media Network) DLNA servers GUI, I have Audio set up as follows: Mode:Specified output format only when necessary, Format: PCM 24 Bit, Stereo downmix is disabled, Volume leveling is enabled, Sample rate:Same as source. I admit i do not know the difference between PCM 24 Bit and PCM L24 No Header.

Under Audio Conversion, I have Conversion: Convert audio if necessary, Encoder: MP3 bandwith.(woops, I just set it to PCM 24 Bit)

 

You need to install the 32-bit (and not the 64-bit) version of MinimServer, given that you are restricted to using 32-bit JRE because of BubbleUPnP Server. This'll likely explain why you are getting the errors if you did instead try installing 64-bit MinimServer on the Windows machine with an existing 32-bit Java Runtime:

 

Yup, that was it.. . damn, you're good...

 

Unfortunately, I'm not familiar with Subsonic, but something in your streaming setup appears to be transcoding.

 

Screw it, I uninstalled Subsonic. I will keep using JRiver as the file server and the Yamaha as the DMP. I paid the $10 and downloaded the JRemote. (I need to look into why Gizmo is free and JRmote costs $10. I am sure there are good reasons, but I honestly just took rn701's advice and ran with it. no questions asked). and really... why even keep BubbleUPnP app around? I obviously cant use it at home pushing DLNA files to the Yamaha, and I have JRemote for the car.

 

 

Thanks everyone. It took a couple of dumb mistakes, and you guys pointing out some really obvious stuff to me, but I felt like I learned a hell of a lot in the last few days. In fact, this thread went so well, I may get around to creating the post asking what I REALLY wanna know; what happens if you take a really futuristic, geeky looking high end digital network streamer and run it through some badass vintage tube equipment? Or in other words, does anyone here run their digital components through vintage amps/speakers/etc?