Upgrade, Server or DAC ?

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Marantz SA14S1 SE & PM14S1 SE | The Ear

 

What Jason Kennedy wrote was :

My first attempt at using the SA14S1 SE as a USB DAC was thwarted by the presence of two USB inputs as shown on the display, ‘USB’ for the front input and ‘USB DAC’ for the rear B type connection. Nothing is idiot proof it seems! Using this input with my reference amplifier produced a taut, muscular result with good pace and high transparency – quite a warts and all result that lays bare the qualities of recordings. One that outguns the onboard transport in fact, given a high quality PC server the USB DAC creates a bigger, more three dimensional picture with greater fine detail that makes the CD sound like a pale imitation. It’s worth pointing out that this was with a high end CAD CAT digital ‘transport’, the results were a lot closer with a Macbook Air.

 

Underlining's for various previous commentators... And here's the link of « CAD CAT » computeraudiodesign.com/cad-cat/ for you to look into possibly why JK...

[Rexp]

What Jason Kennedy wrote was :

My first attempt at using the SA14S1 SE as a USB DAC was thwarted by the presence of two USB inputs as shown on the display' date=' ‘USB’ for the front input and ‘USB DAC’ for the rear B type connection. Nothing is idiot proof it seems! Using this input with my reference amplifier produced a taut, muscular result with good pace and high transparency – quite a warts and all result that lays bare the qualities of recordings. One that outguns the onboard transport in fact, given a high quality PC server the USB DAC creates a bigger, more three dimensional picture with greater fine detail that makes the CD sound like a pale imitation. [u']It’s worth pointing out that this was with a high end CAD CAT digital ‘transport’, the results were a lot closer with a Macbook Air.[/u]

 

Underlining's for various previous commentators... And here's the link of « CAD CAT » computeraudiodesign.com/cad-cat/ for you to look into possibly why JK...

Yes the CAD CAT is a $10,000 server so not a fair comparison. The interesting thing I read in the comments section of Chis Connaker's mini review of the Sonicorbiter SE Ethernet to USB (or TosLink) converter is he thinks using this device completely relieves the Roon PC server of any influence on SQ.

Computer Audiophile - A Quick Spin With The RoonReady Sonore Sonicorbiter SE

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Yes the CD transport might not be great but reviewer said the CD 'sounded like a pale imitation' compared to file playback so must be pretty bad and I don't think Marantz would put out a relatively high end SACD/CD player that sounded so bad.

 

Briefly, do you know of Andrew Everard's Hi-Fi News - Marantz 14S1 SEs (free pdf) review ? An excerpt :

SOURCE AGNOSTIC

By this stage I was getting intrigued by the secret of the success of these new SEs, and tried splitting them up and reconnecting them one at a time into my reference system, but to no avail : both of them are remarkable when used 'on their own', and the two together just reflect each other's abilities.

 

The same goes when comparing straight disc playback with the same recording streamed from computer : I was able to back-to-back SACDs and DSD files of the same tracks without hearing any differences consistently enough to enable me to tell the two apart, and the same goes when doing comparisons at CD-quality.

 

The only conclusion to draw is that the Marantz duo is pretty-much source-agnostic...

 

 

So, how did JK and AE's methodology in testing differ ?

 

 

Incidentally, I've noticed « CAD Cable » computeraudiodesign.com/cad-cable :

The CAD Cable is optimised specifically for audio use in conjunction with a USB Digital to Analogue Converter...

 

£480 plus £15 standard delivery to anywhere in the world.

 

 

« £480 » is too much ? Even if :

Greetings David' date='

a perhaps interesting interlude until I've more time to focus on replying to you at the [b']HD-AMP1 Thread[/b], couple of key insights I've kept in mind from Marantz White Paper Guide to PC-Audio pdf :

In this document we will mainly focus on the last option on the list, the USB-B connectivity as this is the recommended way for music lovers to enjoy their music in the best quality possible. The player acts as a DAC – Digital to Analogue Converter (in fact it replaces the soundcard of your PC / MAC) and directly converts the digital music signal to analogue domain to hand it over to the amplifier.

 

But first let’s dig a bit more into the different ways of accessing music to get a better understanding and clarify some terminology...

 

TIPS AND TRICKS TO GET THE BEST FROM YOUR USB-DAC

 

1. Select a good USB cable (sound will be strongly influenced by the USB cable; interference & noise).
   
2. USB-Cable: Not longer than 5m, and the quality of shielding will also have some influence on the sound quality. Test several cables to optimise performance. Try adding a Ferrite Core as used on some network cables.
   
3. We strongly recommend you to add a Ferrite Core on your network cable to minimize noise interferences.
   
4. For the PC / Mac an SSD hard disc is preferable – SSD stands for Solid State Disk and has, in comparison to standard hard disc, no rotating elements inside. Another step to reduced interference. Sound will be even smoother and more detailed.
   
5. Use your PC or Mac only for Music listening. Kill all unnecessary running apps. There is no need for a high performance super-fast PC. Standard processor is just fine.
   
6. If you use Spotify streaming service, make sure you set the data rate to 320kps – highest resolution.
   
7. DSD playback. The NA-11S1 supports DSD2.8Mhz (64) and DSD5.6Mhz (128). In case of DSD2.8 playback “DSD2.8224MHz” will be shown. For DSD5.6 it is “DSD>2.8224MHz”, this >means bigger than 2.8.
   

[Deaf Cat]

I found changing the mains cable to my pc made a slight difference, so it stayed,

I have OS on one HDD and music stored on another, I changed the storage HDD to a WD RE4 just for fun and found it made a slight difference so it stayed, also found changing the sata cables made a difference, shielded I believe vs unshielded.

Plenty to play with :-)

I have my HDD's sitting outside the pc case on brass isolation feet, made a difference so stayed.

All just tested with my ears what ever they like stays, even if it is all in my mind ;-)

 

I found a noticeable jump in 'energy' and sounding 'alive' when I powered each component directly from its own dedicated RCBO.

 

Please do let us know what you find helps towards 'alive' and 'energy' as I require more :-)

[Rexp]

Briefly' date=' do you know of Andrew Everard's Hi-Fi News - Marantz 14S1 SEs (free pdf) review ? An excerpt :

SOURCE AGNOSTIC

By this stage I was getting intrigued by the secret of the success of these new SEs, and tried splitting them up and reconnecting them one at a time into my reference system, but to no avail : both of them are remarkable when used 'on their own', and the two together just reflect each other's abilities.

 

The same goes when comparing straight disc playback with the same recording streamed from computer : I was able to back-to-back SACDs and DSD files of the same tracks without hearing any differences consistently enough to enable me to tell the two apart, and the same goes when doing comparisons at CD-quality.

 

The only conclusion to draw is that the Marantz duo is pretty-much source-agnostic...

 

 

So, how did JK and AE's methodology in testing differ ?

 

 

Incidentally, I've noticed « CAD Cable » computeraudiodesign.com/cad-cable :

The CAD Cable is optimised specifically for audio use in conjunction with a USB Digital to Analogue Converter...

 

£480 plus £15 standard delivery to anywhere in the world.

 

 

« £480 » is too much ? Even if :

AE's review totally supports JK's findings.

 

JK said there wasn't much difference in sound (CD V Files) when he used a Macbook as the transport. The superiority of the files only became apparent when he used the CAD CAT, Melco or Cyrus Streamer. And guess what AE used as a transport...a Macbook.

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AE's review totally supports JK's findings.

 

JK said there wasn't much difference in sound (CD V Files) when he used a Macbook as the transport. The superiority of the files only became apparent when he used the CAD CAT, Melco or Cyrus Streamer. And guess what AE used as a transport...a Macbook.

 

JK wrote :

With the coax input being fed by a Cyrus Stream X network streamer the musicality of Herbie Hancock’s ‘Maiden Voyage’ came to the fore. The relative crudeness of the sixties recording is not hard to hear but the quality of playing is more obvious and you can hear why this piece is considered a classic. The USB connection to the same original source as the Cyrus used – Melco N1A – produces a richer and more dynamic result but not one that’s any more engaging. I also contrasted the SA14S1 SE’s DAC with a Benchmark DAC2, the latter delivering good groove but less richness of detail and finesse. By contrast the Marantz’s sound is distinctly open and more three dimensional but seems to produce less separation with DSD at least.

 

 

Question remains, are we indeed compromising by using MacBooks and the like ? Does knowledge of Marantz White Paper Guide to PC-Audio pdf help much ? Such as say its Page 5 :

 

And Page 6 begins :

« Attention : Wasapi is designed to work with Windows Vista and higher, but doesn’t work on Windows XP. For Windows XP, Kernel streaming needs to be used. But note ; it doesn’t support dsd over DoP.

 

ASIO means Audio Stream Input / Output and is another method to bypass the Audio Mixer and in addition the Kernel but we won’t go into detail here.

 

This mainly covers the PC. On a Mac the Mixer is called Audio Core and to bypass it there is a so-called “hog mode” available which needs to be activated in the Media Player, like with Wasapi or Kernel Streaming. It’s called here : “exclusive mode” and “integer mode”.

 

More information on these modes will be given at the end of the Document. »

 

 

N.B. JK :

I tried the various filter settings on the disc player as well, these are subtle but filter 2 seems the most engaging, allowing for a good live feel to the music and taut bass lines that give it plenty of pace.

 

I'll relate my own experiences of Marantz « filters » another time, gotta get back to...

[JW Audio]

Sorry for being away so long. But I'm here to report what I have done to get my system well beyond my expectations.

 

First, my amp and pre amp along with the PC server and speakers haven't changed. I bought a Keces DC-116 in 19v 6a configuration and am powering my PC with it. I'm also powering my Tortuga LDR preamp and Regen with it by using a Ultra-low Noise <40μV Adjustable Voltage Regulator Module I picked up on Ebay. Once I incorporated the LPS into my system it really came alive. I was very happy with the move.

 

Part two... Then I bought a PS Audio NuWave DSD DAC and hooked it up and was floored at how much better my system became. It's went beyond my expectations with liveliness and soundstage. It finally sounds Like a high end system. I'm very impressed with the NuWave DAC. Beautiful and very musical with keeping some weight in the music. This thing has some balls.

 

I feel like I'm hearing my speakers and amp for the first time.

 

I didn't realize a DAC could make such a huge difference. The Keces LPS was a great improvement, but the DAC drove it all home.

[Paul R]

Sorry for being away so long. But I'm here to report what I have done to get my system well beyond my expectations.

 

First, my amp and pre amp along with the PC server and speakers haven't changed. I bought a Keces DC-116 in 19v 6a configuration and am powering my PC with it. I'm also powering my Tortuga LDR preamp and Regen with it by using a Ultra-low Noise <40μV Adjustable Voltage Regulator Module I picked up on Ebay. Once I incorporated the LPS into my system it really came alive. I was very happy with the move.

 

Part two... Then I bought a PS Audio NuWave DSD DAC and hooked it up and was floored at how much better my system became. It's went beyond my expectations with liveliness and soundstage. It finally sounds Like a high end system. I'm very impressed with the NuWave DAC. Beautiful and very musical with keeping some weight in the music. This thing has some balls.

 

I feel like I'm hearing my speakers and amp for the first time.

 

I didn't realize a DAC could make such a huge difference. The Keces LPS was a great improvement, but the DAC drove it all home.

 

Great news! Good job there, putting together a high class system.

 

-Paul

[Rexp]

Sorry for being away so long. But I'm here to report what I have done to get my system well beyond my expectations.

 

First, my amp and pre amp along with the PC server and speakers haven't changed. I bought a Keces DC-116 in 19v 6a configuration and am powering my PC with it. I'm also powering my Tortuga LDR preamp and Regen with it by using a Ultra-low Noise <40μV Adjustable Voltage Regulator Module I picked up on Ebay. Once I incorporated the LPS into my system it really came alive. I was very happy with the move.

 

Part two... Then I bought a PS Audio NuWave DSD DAC and hooked it up and was floored at how much better my system became. It's went beyond my expectations with liveliness and soundstage. It finally sounds Like a high end system. I'm very impressed with the NuWave DAC. Beautiful and very musical with keeping some weight in the music. This thing has some balls.

 

I feel like I'm hearing my speakers and amp for the first time.

 

I didn't realize a DAC could make such a huge difference. The Keces LPS was a great improvement, but the DAC drove it all home.

Congrats on your success! So going back to your original question "upgrade server or DAC" you ended up upgrading both but if you could only upgrade one, which would it be? just curious...

[JW Audio]

Congrats on your success! So going back to your original question "upgrade server or DAC" you ended up upgrading both but if you could only upgrade one, which would it be? just curious...

 

???

[Rexp]

???

The new power supply effectively upgraded your server and you got a new DAC. So what sounds better, the upgraded server with the Bitfrost or the server (sans LPS) with the NuWave?

[JW Audio]

The new power supply effectively upgraded your server and you got a new DAC. So what sounds better, the upgraded server with the Bitfrost or the server (sans LPS) with the NuWave?

 

The LPS added was a large improvement. But the DAC was a Giant improvement. I haven't tried the system without the LPS since I've put it in. I knew it was an improvement the second I put it in, so I have no reason to take it out. Moving forward... Always.

 

The question of upgrading the server was more in line with a new or dedicated server. Not so much in adding a better PS to the existing one. Though it did give it a nice upgrade.

[Deaf Cat]

The LPS added was a large improvement. But the DAC was a Giant improvement. I haven't tried the system without the LPS since I've put it in. I knew it was an improvement the second I put it in, so I have no reason to take it out. Moving forward... Always.

 

The question of upgrading the server was more in line with a new or dedicated server. Not so much in adding a better PS to the existing one. Though it did give it a nice upgrade.

 

Many Thanks for Sharing :-D

 

Just finished my first diy external psu for a power amp, next project may well be one for my audio pc ;-)

Cheers