Anyone else having issues with Marantz NA8005 DSD streamer DAC?

[Mike Pinkerton]

I haven't seen much posted about this unit, despite it being out for a year. Maybe that's a bad sign, but it seemed to tick the boxes for DSD streaming + computer USB DAC. On the surface, it works great, but i'm running into problems.

 

First off, the iOS app to drive it is crashtastic. When it's not responding to my NAS (serving via DLNA), the app is hanging and crashing. This makes the streaming part of it very difficult to use, so I almost don't want to bother.

 

I've also found that I'm having to re-tag a lot of my files. For example, it doesn't understand "Disc number" metadata, jumbling all discs for a set together.

 

I'm also a little worried, despite claiming native DSD support over USB, that it only supports DSD via DoP(DSD over PCM).

 

I only have short time before I no longer have the opportunity to return it. Are there better options for DSDstreaming + DAC?

 

-mike

[Mike Pinkerton]

One more annoying thing...no discrete on/off power codes for Harmony remote. Only a toggle. Which means often it can get out of sync with reality. Come on Marantz, you can do better!

[realhifi]

One more annoying thing...no discrete on/off power codes for Harmony remote. Only a toggle. Which means often it can get out of sync with reality. Come on Marantz, you can do better!

 

Don't turn it off. Take that out of the sequence in the Harmony setup.

 

PS. If you had a simple Universal Remote control such as the MX-450 (list price $250) you can find a code set that supports on/off discreet commands that work with all Marantz components. The Harmony is a nice simple remote but it just doesn't have the same level of customization that the URC line has.

[徐中銳]

Firstly, I trust you're not using the NA8004 compatible Marantz Remote App instead of dedicated Marantz Hi-Fi Remote App, see #34

 

Secondly, though I seldom quote awards, it's EISA's EUROPEAN NETWORK MEDIA PLAYER 2015-2016

EISA (European Imaging and Sound Association) is the unique association of nearly 50 special interest magazines from 22 European countries. Internationally known for the European EISA Awards, EISA started in 1982...

Yet, ultimately, awards and Apps are indeed secondary to our own ability to playback what we want.

 

Pardon, I've not any of these NA prefixed Players and cannot guide-you-through to... You may luck onto an owner in this Forum reading...

 

Incidentally, have you read or skimmed Marantz Guide to PC-Audio pdf ?

 

 

[Mike Pinkerton]

Firstly' date=' I trust you're [u']not[/u] using the NA8004 compatible Marantz Remote App instead of dedicated Marantz Hi-Fi Remote App, see #34

 

Yes, I'm using the Hi-Fi app. it's the crashtastic one. The Remote App is a bit more stable, but it's not really geared towards long lists of artists/albums (going back always scrolls back to the top). I wish it was better. I tried Roon tonight, now that's how a second-screen app should work. Perfection.

 

As far as not turning it off, it's in my basement (read: not daily use) rack, and i'd feel better as an inhabitant of the planet if I turned it off when not in use. But yes, that is a solution that I hadn't thought of. Thanks!

-mike

[徐中銳]

Greetings Mike,

forgive my making this short, it's best if I go for a walk while there's still daylight and, indeed, sunny.

 

I'm friends with one of their travelling engineers and will pass on this issue when I next write to him—Ken Ishiwata who might be able to sway more attention towards building better Apps rather than focusing so much energy on perfecting sound performance...

 

This photo I cropped showed KI demonstrating, last month, with a NA8005 :

 

Are you, at least, please with the sound ?

 

Well, per Ken's MacBook, and as the pdf I linked previously states, Marantz recommends USB-B...

 

Truly, not to favour them as readers might expect of me, if the NA8005 is not convenient for your needs, return it.

[Mike Pinkerton]

Well' date=' per [/size']Ken's MacBook, and as the pdf I linked previously states, Marantz recommends USB-B...

 

Greetings! Please pass along constructive criticism to Ken. Their usability has a long way to go, and needs to be in harmony with the sound performance.

 

So far, it sounds pretty good. I bought this because it was both a DSD DAC *and* a DSD streamer, so it wouldn't be a total waste if the streamer user interface turned out to be a bust (which it kind of is). I'm using it right now with Roon through USB-B from my Mac.

 

I'm just a bit surprised nobody else has had these issues, I'm not doing anything out of the ordinary.

 

-mike

[徐中銳]

Just checked, American MSRP $1,199 for NA8005, and $649 for NA6005

 

You saw the Thread titled Marantz sneaking out NA6005 under cover of darkness ? Started 10-22-2014, currently 147 replies, 19,698 views. Thus, my joining in 08-07-2015, I didn't want to fight entrenched history and fuss about the higher ranked model, only subtlety Posting :

the internal view of NA8005

 

as compared to NA6005

 

To me, besides us asking questions of a product, the product too is asking questions of us—like, do we know how to use it to its potential ? It's a lot of homework, perhaps beginning (before buying) by studying Owner's Manuals then reading around, and around, considering, considering...

 

And after buying, our practical findings...

 

Yes, I promise to mention customers' App-interface-dissastifactions to Ken​

 

Irony, of course, is that some brands have great Apps but sound...

[Mike Pinkerton]

Yeah, i did a lot of homework. I read the manual before I bought it. I know that the 6005 doesn't do DSD over its USB-B port, so it was worthless to me because it's *only* a streamer, not also a computer DAC. That's why I bought the 8005 and not the 6005.

 

From reading the manual, you can't tell the quality of the interface or how poorly it handles metadata.

[徐中銳]

Unfortunately, I'm only friends with New Zealand's previous official Marantz distributor. Since 2009, their products have been difficult for me to access and explore. Also prohibitive pricing, as was mentioned in #7

 

These NA Players of theirs, you can successfully use 3rd-party Apps ? And « metadata » affects PS3-rips only or paid/gift DSD downloads too ?

[Mike Pinkerton]

Affects all things. I can use 3rd party apps with USB-B, but part of the draw is being able to stream without having to hook my laptop up to the rig.

 

Oh, and it also mysteriously won't play a few HDTracks FLAC files I have. Others from the same album are fine, other players play them with no problem. I called tech support and they were stumped, saying they'd never heard of this problem before.

[Cebolla]

Mike

 

You can use 3rd party UPnP/DLNA controllers instead of Marantz's own apps for network streaming your music files. Refer to this thread for discussion and recommendations for UPnP controllers that support gapless playback:

http://www.computeraudiophile.com/f22-networking-networked-audio-and-streaming/truly-gapless-digital-living-network-alliance-controllers-22398/

 

Incidentally, what UPnP/DLNA media server application are you using to provide the music library for the Marantz and on what network machine are you running it on (usually the same machine that contains the drives the music files are stored in)?

 

It is the UPnP media server (and not the the UPnP controller app) that builds the music library database (from the music files' metadata) and provides the music category folder structure for accessing the library. Neither the UPnP controller app nor the Marantz, when network streaming, handle the music file metadata - only the UPnP media server does. An excellent free music dedicated UPnP media server to use is MinimServer:

MinimServer features

 

John

[Mike Pinkerton]

Thanks for pointing that out John. I knew that the indexing was all done on the NAS, but somehow failed to connect the dots. ::facepalm::

 

So you're saying that if I used a better media server on my NAS than what's built-in, I'd probably get better cataloging of metadata? (I just flipped a switch for "media streaming" on my NAS's setup, I think it's twonkyserver) My NAS supports running Plex, would that help, or is that a different kind of solution?

 

Another question: even if I ran a different media server on my NAS, how would I tell the Marantz to stream if I'm not using *its* app? I don't see how a different iPad app could control the 8005. Am I missing something obvious?

 

Appreciate the help!

-mike

[Mike Pinkerton]

Ah-ha, I see that Plex can operate as a DNLA server (https://support.plex.tv/hc/en-us/articles/200350536-DLNA).

 

That still doesn't solve the question about driving the 8005 with an app other than Marantz's.

[Mike Pinkerton]

I already had a Plex library on my NAS from when I was playing with it before (not as a DLNA server) so I got the marantz to talk to it. Yay! While tootling around through my library, the Marantz app crashed again. Was alive for maybe 1 minute. Sigh.

 

I did check out MinimServer, but it doesn't run on my NAS (WDMyCloudEX2).

[Mike Pinkerton]

Plex couldn't handle the metadata in any of my DSF tracks when I added that folder to my Plex library, they're all "Untitled album". Note that Roon had zero problems indexing the same files (accessing files over SMB), and while the built-in server had some issues, it was nothing like this massive failure.

 

Sigh. That's not going to work at all. Any other server suggestions?

[Cebolla]

So you're saying that if I used a better media server on my NAS than what's built-in, I'd probably get better cataloging of metadata? (I just flipped a switch for "media streaming" on my NAS's setup, I think it's twonkyserver) My NAS supports running Plex, would that help, or is that a different kind of solution?

Indeed, it's likely the NAS's built-in version of TwonkyMedia Server is quite old & buggy (eg, Western Digital NASs are renowned for this). If you cannot replace it with a more current version, then trying another UPnP/DLNA supporting media server would be the way to go.

 

 

Plex couldn't handle the metadata in any of my DSF tracks when I added that folder to my Plex library, they're all "Untitled album". Note that Roon had zero problems indexing the same files (accessing files over SMB), and while the built-in server had some issues, it was nothing like this massive failure.

 

Sigh. That's not going to work at all. Any other server suggestions?

As you've found Plex does support DLNA, but it appears geared more towards video and promoting their (especially paid) streaming services rather than just straight forward music file streaming. You could try installing the latest version of MiniDLNA, as that's often reported to be the best option for music file UPnP/DLNA streaming from WD NASs. Otherwise you could always use MinimServer as you are Roon, so running on another machine and accessing the NAS music files via network shares - at least until you can get a NAS that can run a decent UPnP media server!

 

 

 

Another question: even if I ran a different media server on my NAS, how would I tell the Marantz to stream if I'm not using *its* app? I don't see how a different iPad app could control the 8005. Am I missing something obvious?

Well I suppose it isn't that obvious. With DLNA supporting streamers, there's a subtle difference between a Digital Media Player (DMP) and a Digital Media Renderer (DMR). The Marantz NA8005 is a DLNA certified DMR:

http://certification.dlna.org/certs/REG40081124.pdf

 

The DMP has a UPnP control point built into the device itself and the DMP cannot be used with an external UPnP control point (eg a third party UPnP controller app). Since the UPnP controller is internal, the networked files are effectively being 'pulled' by the streamer as they are under its control. Any app supplied by the DMP manufacturer does not actually support UPnP/DLNA streaming, but uses a proprietary mechanism to remote control the DMP and so indirectly access its internal UPnP control point.

 

The DMR doesn't have an internal UPnP control point, so requires an external one. Any app supplied by the DMR manufacturer will need to contain a UPnP control point in order to control the DMR's UPnP/DLNA streaming and it follows that the DMR can also be used by third party UPnP control point apps. Since the UPnP controller is external, the networked files are effectively being 'pushed' to (or as Microsoft and others prefer to call this 'Play To') the streamer as they are outside its control.

 

BTW, very few UPnP/DLNA supporting network audio streamers/renderers/players these days are just DMPs, the vast majority being hybrids, so both DMRs & DMPs.

[Mike Pinkerton]

Again, much thanks John. Really appreciate taking the time to explain. All of this makes me glad that I spent the extra for the 8005 to have the flexibility for both the streaming and USB-B. A bit more future-proof.

 

What is an example of a 3rd party control point that I can use on iOS? I see that I can "play to" the 8005 over Airplay, but I don't think that's quite the same thing.

 

-mike

[Mike Pinkerton]

So I found that the twonkyServer on my NAS has a web interface. When I view my multi-CD albums there, they are listed correctly in order by disc, respecting disc number metadata. When I look at the same files via the Marantz app, the discs are all jumbled together. So either twonky isn't sending the same thing over DLNA that it is to its web interface (unlikely) or the marantz is doing something very wrong. Browsing via the physical device (using its screen and front panel controls) shows the same thing as the app.

 

I tried using my PS/3 to browse the DNLA info, but it can't handle DSD so it just says "unrecognized metadata" for all those files and wont show me the names of the tracks.

 

Anyone know enough about twonky?

[Audio_ELF]

Plex does support DLNA, but it appears geared more towards video and promoting their (especially paid) streaming services rather than just straight forward music file streaming.

I usually agree with you John but on this I'm not sure where you are coming from.

 

I find Plex a pretty decent DLNA server even for music though it is lacking certain capabilities - such as easily reading "sort" fields (rather than Artist / Album Artist) and lack of composer fields as well as the fact it doesn't support DSD.

 

Plex don't sell any streaming services.

 

As for the NA8005... my Marantz experience is based on the M-CR510 so YMMV, but my solution for control of the streaming side is to install MinimServer and BubbleUPnPServer (in my case installed on a Linux / Vortexbox machine which acts as my storage / server) and then I can use Lumin or Kazoo to control the streaming and don't (well only rarely) have any problems.

 

The problem with the Marantz HiFi app is that it doesn't follow the sort order sent by the UPnP Server (afaik) and so everything can get jumbled. With a versatile UPnP server such as MinimServer this can be corrected (by sending for example Disc 1 as track numbers 1-10 and Disc 2 as track numbers 11-20), but I don't think with Twonky it has sufficient configuration.

 

On the plus side the Marantz HiFi app does support "The" properly realising The Wall (for example) should come amongst the W albums not the "T" albums - sorry thats a bugbear of mine from many control point apps!

[Mike Pinkerton]

On the plus side the Marantz HiFi app does support "The" properly realising The Wall (for example) should come amongst the W albums not the "T" albums - sorry thats a bugbear of mine from many control point apps!

 

Yes, I was pleasantly surprised by this with the HiFi app. Audirvana still can't/won't do this.

[Cebolla]

I usually agree with you John but on this I'm not sure where you are coming from.

 

I find Plex a pretty decent DLNA server even for music though it is lacking certain capabilities - such as easily reading "sort" fields (rather than Artist / Album Artist) and lack of composer fields as well as the fact it doesn't support DSD.

 

Plex don't sell any streaming services.

Not surprising really, as I can easily lose the plot tying together several themes in the one post.

 

My intention was to highlight that Plex supply the Plex Media Server software as the backbone application to their whole system and appear to have concentrated their efforts on developing the Plex Media Server's support for their optional (free & paid for) Plex Apps and the optional Plex Pass subscription service, rather than the music file side of its built-in UPnP/DLNA media server.

 

I suppose it depends on one's definition of a 'streaming service', but I would have thought something like the Plex Pass's Cloud Sync (ie cloud streaming) service would be covered by that.

 

 

The problem with the Marantz HiFi app is that it doesn't follow the sort order sent by the UPnP Server (afaik) and so everything can get jumbled. With a versatile UPnP server such as MinimServer this can be corrected (by sending for example Disc 1 as track numbers 1-10 and Disc 2 as track numbers 11-20), but I don't think with Twonky it has sufficient configuration.

 

On the plus side the Marantz HiFi app does support "The" properly realising The Wall (for example) should come amongst the W albums not the "T" albums - sorry thats a bugbear of mine from many control point apps!

It would certainly be very poor of the Marantz HiFi App not to support the sort order of the music tracks as sent to it by the UPnP media server. It's pretty much unheard of for a UPnP control point not to support the track order as sent to it and to also use it by default. Logical, really, as the UPnP spec only obliges the UPnP media server to send the music track's title as metadata. Using the track number metadata to sort on should only be a back up method, as it doesn't have to be sent by the media server. It is therefore down to the UPnP media server to send the tracks in the correct order in the first place.

 

MinimServer does supply UPnP track number metadata with the corrected values to take into account disc numbers, as you suggest, but my feeling is that's actually secondary to MinimServer making sure that the order of the tracks being sent to the control point are correct.

 

There's a fair amount of info out there regarding UPnP/DLNA sorting issues with TwonkyMedia Server. I did find one possible solution to Twonky's track number sort problem specifically for a WD MyBook NAS, which interestingly appears to also take into account the track's original disc number metadata:

https://community.wd.com/t/twonky-sorting-music-in-folder-mode-still/57163

[Audio_ELF]

Not surprising really, as I can lose the plot tying together several themes in the one post.

My intention was to highlight that Plex supply the Plex Media Server software as the backbone application to their whole system and appear to have concentrated their efforts on developing the Plex Media Server's support for their optional (free & paid for) Plex Apps and the optional Plex Pass subscription service, rather than the music file side of its built-in UPnP/DLNA media server.

I will agree with you that the DLNA / UPnP server part of Plex is secondary to supporting the various Plex Apps...

[jorgefilu]

Now I am able to stream from my NAS (QNAP TS251+) to my new Marantz NA8005 thru DLNA and control what is playing from my iphone, ipad or MacBookPro with no issues. It is an excellent solution to play my FLAC and ALAC files without having to use Airplay or the clunky USB-B.

 

I am running Jriver MC21 on the NAS. It has all my library and playlists and is setup to control the network player from the DLNA Media Center.

 

I have also installed JRemote on my IOS devices to navigate the library and push data to the network player. It works like a charm.

 

I still have not been able to use the USB-B in the back of the network player with DSD. I can only play 48KHz PCM and nothing else. Any clue on how to do that? My Dragonfly 1.2 USB DAC can play anything except DSD but this player can only do 48KHz PC for me . Too bad.

[Mike Pinkerton]

I haven't had any problem with either Audirvana or Roon playing DSD over PCM. Make sure you configure your player for DoP, and then the Marantz will recognize DSD on the front panel. Also make sure you're not playing upsampling anything over 192, as it just won't play it.