ECdesigns

[Qhwoeprktiyns]

They improve the design each time. 

 

I have a UV. The UV is an outstanding DAC, offered at a very low price, and anyone who has actually listened to it will agree. 

 

I am impatient to test their latest production. 

[Qhwoeprktiyns]

Their new DAC is being produced. Back to Toslink input. I have a feeling this is going to be a ground breaking product.

 

There are quite a few innovations, some of which you can read about on the DiyAudio thread. The DAC will be battery powered. 

 

They have also a small USB to Toslink adapter available (size of a USB key).

 

The claim here is that as long as source is bit perfect you can get a low noise and jitter free signal in the DAC. If that claim is realized, it will be a revolution in computer audio... 

[Qhwoeprktiyns]

I purchased the MOS 16 and am using it so far with a squeezebox reciever and am very pleased. I did not even bother to compare it directly with the Mosaic UV (their previous model). At 360 euros it is a no brainer. Will receive the UPL (battery supplied, very low power standalone wav reader) soon, and am curious to make some comparison between various sources. 

 

The UPL only plays wav files from a USB key. If the UPL is clearly above other sources, I will make a little program to automate the copy of a playlist and conversion to wav. Having a digital system completely off the grid (power and network) with very low interference, is appealing, in spite of the constraints. 

[Qhwoeprktiyns]

I'll post some impressions in a few days - when I receive the UPL, and take some time to make some comparisons, at least with the Mosaic UV. 

[Qhwoeprktiyns]

Hi, I'll answer your message here so everyone can benefit. 

 

I did finally recieve the UPL, and the gap with my Squeezebox reciever is very significant. In fact, I have never heard such a big difference switching sources. I unfortunately do not have too many other sources to compare it to (as some could argue the Squeezebox Reciever is not among the best out there, and they would probably be right). Still, my feeling at this point is that the UPL is a really really good source. Will do a comparison later this week with a Mac Mini (Uptone supply) and perhaps the latest version of Wtfplay using ECDesign's USB to Toslink converter. 

 

I may try to borrow another source from someone here in Paris. Not sure I can manage that. 

 

I did not have a chance to compare it to the UV. I will also do that using the same Mac Mini. 

 

The MOS DAC seems very good and I do not miss the UV, but will compare... 

 

I asked HifiAdvice is they would be reviewing it, and they said they had a chance to listen to it and thought it was similar to the Mosaic T DAC, which I think they found inferior to the UV. When I first got the MOS DAC I quickly tried it with a few PCs and the toslink adapter and quickly settled on the Squeezebox reciever as it sounded better, but I would have to spend more time comparing. So I have a feeling that we  should be careful what source it is used with. 

 

The UPL may turn out to be the real jewel here, and with it the MOS DAC really shines. 

 

I will provide some more feedback this weekend. 

 

For reference, my system is composed of Harbeth P3ESR 40th Anniversary speakers, a "The Truth" preamp, and a Nuprime ST-10 stereo power amp. Not the best there is, but certainly sufficiently revealing to pass a judgment on sources and DACs... 

[Qhwoeprktiyns]

I actually could not resist making another comparison. So I installed Wtfplay (last version) on my Mac Mini (2012 model with Uptone kit, but with a standard power supply - will try it with an hdplex later, but I doubt it will change much) and connected the Mac Mini to the MOS DAC using the ECDesigns Utos (USB to Toslink adapter). I played the same track (Charles Brown, "I Won't Cry Anymore", good recording) on the Mac Mini and on the UPL. The UPL is head and shoulders above, with much better transparency and depth, the music just flows with much more ease, it makes it a struggle to listen to the Mac Mini. 

 

I hope others will test it. 

[Qhwoeprktiyns]

Hopefully sometime in January I will be able to organize a comparison (blinded as well) with some other streamers. 

[Qhwoeprktiyns]

15 hours ago, Norton said:

 

Thanks for impressions, just ordered the MOS16/UPL16/UTOS combo to  satisfy my curiosity.

 

 

 

Looking forward to hear your impressions. 

[Qhwoeprktiyns]

No opinions on that one as I did not purchase it. 

[Qhwoeprktiyns]

I had another set of ears come and listen to my system. He often auditions systems and has a good ears... My friend was extremely impressed by the UPL+MOS DAC "combo":  the pitch black background, the level of detail, the completely natural and realistic delivery ("analog" like, to quote him).

 

He summed up the listening session by saying that this was a revelation and an "intense musical experience". 

 

I hope others will get a chance to listen to the UPL player along with the DAC as it really sets a new standard, in my opinion, for digital playback. 

[Qhwoeprktiyns]

Here is a picture of the UPL and the DAC, front and back. The UPL is being charged, so a USB cable (with a phone charger) is connected to it. The USB cable can be left on when the device is turned on - the USB power is blocked from entering the device as soon as it is turned on. The DAC is powered exactly the same way, by simply plugging in a USB cable.

 

There is a toslink cable going from the UPL to the DAC. That is all there is to it...

 

[Qhwoeprktiyns]

Before you ask, the DAC can play over 100 hours before being recharged (I recharged mine a few weeks after I got it). As for the UPL it probably depends on the USB key you use. The higher the capacity, the more current it drains. I recharged mine after a week, but will have to see further on how often I need to recharge it.

 

The display starts to dim to indicate that the unit needs to be recharged. I left them to recharge overnight. 

 

To summarize, the use of batteries is not a problem given how little power the two units consume. 

 

Concerning the use of USB keys, it is actually quite simple to navigate through files using the remote control, in spite of the absence of any text on the display (only numbers). One button lets you move from folder to folder (numbered 01 to 99), and another through the tracks within each folder (with the display showing the folder and track number so 01.01 to 01.99). The display also shows the number of each USB key, which is defined in a text file of its root folder. Scrolling through the folders is quite fast, so putting a large number of folders (max 99) is not an issue. 

 

You obviously need some kind of cheat sheet to remind you of what is on which usb key. So far, I have just been using screen copies of the folders of each usb key, stored on a network drive.

 

I intend on using MP3Tag to generate (through the export functions) an html file with the content of each usb key, and setting up a web server on one of my computers to be able to access the web pages using my tablet. I will put a sticker on each usb key with its number. 

 

All my collection is currently in FLAC. I will see whether I create a copy of my albums in wav format on a separate drive. For the time being I convert them using a batch converter when I want to copy folders to the USB keys. 

 

It is a little bit of work but it is worth it! 

 

[Qhwoeprktiyns]

Some more thoughts... Since the MOS DAC only has one Toslink input, how do you listen to other sources ? I use LMS, for example, for my music collection and Spotify, you may use Roon + Tidal, etc... 

 

You can obviously keep another player with either a USB out (and use a USB to Toslink converter -  ECDesign make the UTOS, for example), or a Toslink out, and unplug the cable going from the DAC to the UPL when you want to use that second player. Toslink receivers have a limited "mechanical" lifespan, and I personally do not want to spend my time plugging and unplugging cables. Another option is to use a Toslink switch, but I believe they may degrade the sound quality (and it is an extra device that you need to install and power). 

 

I would recommend just getting a seperate analog source (i.e. a streamer with a DAC) and plugging that in directly to your preamp - if it has multiple inputs.  

 

I do not need to listen to a "high quality" source all the time. So I alternate between the UPL/MOS Dac when I am focused on listening to music (essentially at night), and either a Chromecast or Squeezebox plugged in to my Preamp when I just want background music. I have a spotify account and either one works fine with that. 

 

I wish ECDesigns had made their DAC with two Toslink inputs and a switch, but that may be for a future version ! On the other hand, limiting the use of the UPL/MOS to specific listening sessions saves on battery !

 

I cannot stress strongly enough the quality of the MOS/UPL "combo". I think anyone involved in digital playback should get a chance to listen to it, and see what music sounds like without any (or very little)  interference from the source or DAC. It is quite a revelation.

 

But you do not need the "best" all the time... things are in a way much simpler having a basic "network" streamer on one hand and these two units on the other, which are trouble free: no power supply, no network, no software to tinker with, etc.. they are reliable, work all the time, and provide probably on of the best digital playback you can afford (because they are indeed "affordable").

 

For the record, I have no link whatsoever with ECDesigns, just a very satistfied customer, eager to spread the word...

[Qhwoeprktiyns]

Until someone is able to bridge the gap with network streaming I will hold on dearly to my music collection, and am glad I have been continuing investing in it (buying CDs)... 

[Qhwoeprktiyns]

I had the ECDesigns Mosaic UV (still have it in fact). Before that, I have had a number of DACs over the years.

 

It will be interesting to test the UPL drive with another DAC that has Toslink input, to check whether the "magic" comes essentially from the UPL, or whether it is from the combination of the UPL and MOS DAC. 

[Qhwoeprktiyns]

2 hours ago, beautiful music said:

That's a good point.

 

Curious to know the other DAC's that you owned from other brands.

 

A lot over the past 15 years, not all of which I can remember (not in any order): Ayre QB9, Calyx Femto, Dangerous Music Source, a few Wadia (Wadia 25 and others), Mytek 192, Bel Canto, etc...

 

What is your point ?

[Qhwoeprktiyns]

I understand - I do think the UPL is really doing most of the work here, so it is not only a question of DACs.

 

I am sorry there are not more people using it as I am curious myself to see what others think (hopefully Norton will get his soon and let us know).

[Qhwoeprktiyns]

15 hours ago, n-a said:

Hi all,

 

I can confirm that the EcDesigns Mos16 is exceptionally natural sounding dac. However it needs good source and amplification. I tried it first with basic sources and it was not that good. Cd transport + Ifi spdif purifier did the trick. Now I think it is the best dac that I have had and maybe even better than the Theta Gen V-a that I had. Not so dynamic sounding but very natural. I like it it very much. Doesn`t get me stressed when listening to music  It is interesting that there is so many "ways" to build good sounding dac, one weights a "ton" and another is light as feather but both sounds good.

 

Concerning the "not so dynamic" aspect with lesser quality sources this is exactly my experience, briefly using a Chromecast, for example. I guess the MOS is very revealing of the source (contrary to what I naively expected you cannot turn a bad source into something good). 

 

I do not have a good explanation for this. With a good source (I use the UPL) it is as if there was complete "transparency" and the music is just there for you to explore and immerse yourself in. There is absolutely no harshness and it is completely relaxing. I can listen to it all day and night.. it is a little surprising at first, but soon very addictive!

[Qhwoeprktiyns]

Thanks for your feedback. Glad you like it ! Let us know after some time if your impressions changed. It took me a few days to get accustomed to it.

 

P.S. concerning the "dynamics", I have found out that I can play the MOS/UPL at a louder volume than I was used to, due to the lack of any "harshness" in the sound (especially the higher frequencies). The blacker background, better extension of the notes, makes it all extremely involving and "life like".

[Qhwoeprktiyns]

@Norton

Could you try the UPL with the Toslink input of your Resonessence DAC ? I am curious to know whether the "magic" comes from the UPL, or the UPL+MOS combination. Thanks

[Qhwoeprktiyns]

Yes the UPL+MOS is quite unique. I have basically given up on listening to anything else and have ordered lots of USB keys

[Qhwoeprktiyns]

1 hour ago, M_audio said:

The magic is obviously the DAC. I hear it everyday in the form of (very similar) Mosaic T.
The UPL is "just" the sugar on the top.

The Sabre-Resonessence is completely different design and vibe. 

 

We will find out when more trials are done. I do not have a good source outside the UPL, and I do not intend on investing in one. If I bring it over to compare at others' homes I will report back. 

[Qhwoeprktiyns]

Thanks again for the reports. How do you intend on using the UPL - occasionally with a selection of your music, or more regularly?

 

I am in the latter case and trying to figure out how I should organize my USB keys... 

[Qhwoeprktiyns]

Glad you are enjoying it.

 

I really hope ECDesigns will get more "publicity" for these outstanding products.

 

I can understand that a "usb key" player will have limited appeal. However, for the "obsessive audiophile" who is constantly tinkering and optimizing his/her set up (probably out of frustration with some aspects of the sound quality) using the UPL/MOS is the perfect medecine. The peace of mind it offers, knowing you probably cannot take it much farther (or at least not "tinkering") really lets you focus on enjoying the music

 

I was reading today on a French forum a thread on a network player (the Metrum Ambre): arguments over the mertis of upgrading the fuse, upgrading the internal RJ45 cable, tinkering with the various OS it runs on... It is such a relief not to have to worry about any of this ! 

 

Even if I do not end up duplicating my entire collection, I still like to have a fairly large sample "on hand" (selections in various "genres"). I miss having an easy way to look at what I am listening. So I am going to develop a small app to store on a web page the contents of each USB key (usb key id, folders, files, and optionally an image which you can also store in each folder) - it should be simple and quick to use.  That way I can easily search through my collection of USB keys (so far I have 7). Not essential, but a fun little project. I will post a link to it here once I am done.

[Qhwoeprktiyns]

5 hours ago, Norton said:

 

I bought the UPL16/MOS16 combo mainly out of  curiosity, but after a week’s listening it’s in daily use now and looks to stay  that way if I can stick to the “16/44 diet”.

 

I’m part-used to this situation from using SD cards with the Resonessence.  The strategy I have evolved is to keep my music archive elsewhere and just dip into it when I  need to refresh my listening, rather than replicating a complete music  collection across many sticks/cards.  

 

Regarding audio formats (sampling/bits), I find the quality of the recording to be more important than the format itself. A friend bought some of his better recorded music to listen to with the UPL and it sounded terrific. I listen to a lot of older jazz and classical music recordings, and I have to admit it is not as "impressive" with these older recordings, but it is still much better than in any of my previous setups. I was listening the other day to this album: https://www.discogs.com/Bach-Arthur-Grumiaux-Complete-Sonatas-And-Partitas-For-Solo-Violin/release/3403481. It was recorded in 1960, and I was completely "floored" by the purity of the violin.