Odroid or Raspberry Pi2 vs PC for audio

[alubis]

When you install linux distro such as rune, volumio, or archphile, basically you can use the boards as upnp/dlna renderer. Meaning you can stream your music files or qobuz or tidal via your Android devices using bubbleupnp app.

[Pepsican]

When you install linux distro such as rune, volumio, or archphile, basically you can use the boards as upnp/dlna renderer. Meaning you can stream your music files or qobuz or tidal via your Android devices using bubbleupnp app.

 

And where would the actual decoding of the files take place? On the renderer or on the transmitting device?

[alubis]

And where would the actual decoding of the files take place? On the renderer or on the transmitting device?

 

Basically, the transmitting device (Control Point) will send the url to the Renderer music player (Volumio, Rune, or Archphile using MPD as music player) and the music player on the Renderer which is connected to your DAC will output this to the DAC.

 

Here's a good explanation on upnp/dlna: Computer Audiophile - The Complete Guide To HiFi UPnP / DLNA Network Audio

[seeteeyou]

Hummingboard Edge also looked pretty good

 

http://solid-run.com/product/hummingboard-edge/

http://www.cnx-software.com/2015/08/03/hummingboard-edge-sbc-gets-an-msatam-2-connector-an-emmc-flash-and-more-ios/

 

JCAT / PPA / SOtM cards could be added to the Hummingboard Edge with an adapter like this

 

http://www.hwtools.net/Adapter/PM2C.html

http://ppaproduct.blogspot.com/2013/07/audio-grade-usb-30-pcie-card.html

 

 

[Pepsican]

Basically, the transmitting device (Control Point) will send the url to the Renderer music player (Volumio, Rune, or Archphile using MPD as music player) and the music player on the Renderer which is connected to your DAC will output this to the DAC.

 

Here's a good explanation on upnp/dlna: Computer Audiophile - The Complete Guide To HiFi UPnP / DLNA Network Audio

 

Thank you. So, circling back to the original question: why do people use (sometimes) very powerful PCs to process what is effectively a very light file? In the case of HQ Player, I see the point of the need for a beefy machine. But when all you do is play back your redbook collection as-is, then why? Is it only because PCs are easier to customise?

[alubis]

Thank you. So, circling back to the original question: why do people use (sometimes) very powerful PCs to process what is effectively a very light file? In the case of HQ Player, I see the point of the need for a beefy machine. But when all you do is play back your redbook collection as-is, then why? Is it only because PCs are easier to customise?

 

It could be one of the reason. That's why my suggestion is to get a board with a load of support and preferably has image distribution ready to install. Otherwise, it will take some time to get everything right, depending on your knowledge of Linux. I spent significant amount of time installing Archphile on my Banana Pro.

[Pepsican]

Hummingboard Edge also looked pretty good

 

HummingBoard-Edge | SolidRun

HummingBoard Edge SBC Gets an mSATA/M.2 Connector, an eMMC Flash, and More I/Os

 

JCAT / PPA / SOtM cards could be added to the Hummingboard Edge with an adapter like this

 

PM2C V2.1 (PCI-E / Mini PCI-E adapter)

SHOPPING AREA: AUDIO GRADE USB 3.0 PCIE CARD

 

What can I say....? That kind of beats the point of a PC. As an alternative when you don't have a PCIe slot, use the SOtM USB hub.

[Pepsican]

It could be one of the reason. That's why my suggestion is to get a board with a load of support and preferably has image distribution ready to install. Otherwise, it will take some time to get everything right, depending on your knowledge of Linux. I spent significant amount of time installing Archphile on my Banana Pro.

 

I don't know Linux too well. One of the secondary goals is to get familiar with it.

[Jud]

Thank you. So, circling back to the original question: why do people use (sometimes) very powerful PCs to process what is effectively a very light file? In the case of HQ Player, I see the point of the need for a beefy machine. But when all you do is play back your redbook collection as-is, then why? Is it only because PCs are easier to customise?

 

- It provides excellent sound from inexpensive DACs.

 

- It allows you to keep up to date with the latest developments just by updating software rather than buying a new DAC.

 

- Yes, it's far easier to customize. A significant part of the "sound" of a DAC is the oversampling and filtering built into the DAC chip or (in fairly expensive models) FPGA. To get different filters, most often you'd need to shop for and buy a different DAC. (A handful of DACs do offer a choice of a couple or even a few filters.) HQPlayer, on the other hand, offers a bunch of filters. You can choose the one you like best, and it's a single software purchase rather than multiple DAC purchases.

 

Those are the reasons I can think of off the top of my head.

[Man in a van]

I think that to get going at minimal cost you should consider a rpi2 loaded with Moode or Max2Play running LMS.

 

Get a good power supply and a couple of 16gb cards.

 

If you have a USB Dac, then your sorted. Otherwise I would recommend this

 

They have a nice case in development.

 

 

Then, whilst enjoy your music, get a cheap second-hand computer (or dual boot your Desktop, if you have one) and play with that, until you know what you want without wasting money (you'll surely waste time sorting it all out). Then go for the ultimate build.

 

All the small boards are really niche products with a niche OS and rely upon the OS developer to maintain the support. The two I have mentioned above seem to do that.

 

One can talk all day about what is best, just get started lol.

 

atb

 

Ronnie.

[Jud]

I think that to get going at minimal cost you should consider a rpi2 loaded with Moode or Max2Play running LMS.

 

 

Ronnie.

 

Only reason I'd recommend not starting with the Pi is that as noted before he wouldn't have the freedom to try it as an NAA. May as well allow yourself the maximum number of alternatives for a given cost (and we aren't talking much cost here, fortunately).

[Skip Pack]

What I haven't seen yet is a discussion of the potential of using the I2S output on the RPi2 into a buffering/reclocker that then feeds an I2S DAC input. I'm presently using the HifiBerry Digi+ from the RPi2 pins to a SPDIF input DAC and that works very well. Others using the I2S direct DACs like the Audiophonics above on their Pi's seem happy. Is there an obstacle in the I2S output approach that would preclude implementation of a high-quality, high data-rate DSD configuration? That might be the NAA-capable path.

 

Skip

[Pepsican]

- It provides excellent sound from inexpensive DACs.

 

- It allows you to keep up to date with the latest developments just by updating software rather than buying a new DAC.

 

- Yes, it's far easier to customize. A significant part of the "sound" of a DAC is the oversampling and filtering built into the DAC chip or (in fairly expensive models) FPGA. To get different filters, most often you'd need to shop for and buy a different DAC. (A handful of DACs do offer a choice of a couple or even a few filters.) HQPlayer, on the other hand, offers a bunch of filters. You can choose the one you like best, and it's a single software purchase rather than multiple DAC purchases.

 

Those are the reasons I can think of off the top of my head.

 

I was more thinking in terms of single board computers versus full blown PCs and whether one or the other has a sound advantage. Or did i misunderstand what you said?

[Jud]

I was more thinking in terms of single board computers versus full blown PCs and whether one or the other has a sound advantage. Or did i misunderstand what you said?

 

Going step by step:

 

- Why do you want to use a computer to feed your DAC? For me it's to be able to run oversampling and filters superior to those in the DAC. This needs some "oomph" (technical term) from the computer.

 

- But that might create more electrical noise in the computer. So how can you make sure to feed the DAC from a low noise source? NAA or similar, where you do the processing in a high powered computer and feed the DAC from an electrically quiet one. So best of both worlds. The computers you have now or will have soon would work OK as the "high powered computer," and you could pick up an SBC for relative chump change to use as the NAA or similar.

 

- But if you want to use just one computer (maybe the NAA or similar stuff is just more hassle than you're looking for), I personally would not use an SBC. I would want something with more processing capability.

 

Just my own opinions, this is certainly not the only way to do things.

[alubis]

I was more thinking in terms of single board computers versus full blown PCs and whether one or the other has a sound advantage. Or did i misunderstand what you said?

 

With Chord Hugo, my beaglebone black (running Rune) and my banana pro (running Archphile) gives better sound quality compare to my mac mini (late 2014, tweaks: CAD osx opt script, music files and music player on ramdisk, uptone mmk, hdplex lps, boot SD card, physically remove airport, wifi, bluetooth, infrared). Problem is DAC such as Hugo does not have galvanic isolation on its usb. Hence low power transport, IMO gives better result. So it highly depends on which dac you are using.

 

If I understand correctly, on the HQ player thread, Miska preference is to run a dual pc setup so the dac is connected to the NAA rather than noisy computer. I have tried running HQ Player via my mac mini above, but the SQ is still below my single boards. But not the fault of HQ player, but more on the Chord Hugo and Mac Mini.

 

As others have suggested, it's better to try it yourself since cost is minimal and IMO, the best way to experience and learn Linux is by trying.

[Pepsican]

With Chord Hugo, my beaglebone black (running Rune) and my banana pro (running Archphile) gives better sound quality compare to my mac mini (late 2014, tweaks: CAD osx opt script, music files and music player on ramdisk, uptone mmk, hdplex lps, boot SD card, physically remove airport, wifi, bluetooth, infrared). Problem is DAC such as Hugo does not have galvanic isolation on its usb. Hence low power transport, IMO gives better result. So it highly depends on which dac you are using.

 

If I understand correctly, on the HQ player thread, Miska preference is to run a dual pc setup so the dac is connected to the NAA rather than noisy computer. I have tried running HQ Player via my mac mini above, but the SQ is still below my single boards. But not the fault of HQ player, but more on the Chord Hugo and Mac Mini.

 

As others have suggested, it's better to try it yourself since cost is minimal and IMO, the best way to experience and learn Linux is by trying.

 

I use a Chord Hugo as DAC. I was thinking of using the SOtM USB hug and Regen to clean up the USB power and signal.

 

I have decided to go this route. I'll wait for the heat to clear up here (too hot to be inside) and then implement.

 

Have you tried running your Mac Mini with HQ Player and then use one of your single boards as the NAA?

[alubis]

Have you tried running your Mac Mini with HQ Player and then use one of your single boards as the NAA?

 

No I haven't tried that yet, since the sound quality of Hugo with beaglebone (Rune) and banana pro (archphile) is excellent, so currently I'm not looking for other transport. But if I were in the market for transport, I would rather spend money on something like Aurender n100 rather than spending on upgrading/tweaking PC.

[4est]

IIRC, it can sound quite nice, but I think it lacks DSD support depending upon OS. I briefly used the Raspi with PiCoreplayer as a test on my Buffalo DAC. I just picked up a Soekris board and will try it soon- I need to decide on what IV. If anyone wants to compile a Raspi NAA image, I'll be happy to give it a go!

What I haven't seen yet is a discussion of the potential of using the I2S output on the RPi2 into a buffering/reclocker that then feeds an I2S DAC input. I'm presently using the HifiBerry Digi+ from the RPi2 pins to a SPDIF input DAC and that works very well. Others using the I2S direct DACs like the Audiophonics above on their Pi's seem happy. Is there an obstacle in the I2S output approach that would preclude implementation of a high-quality, high data-rate DSD configuration? That might be the NAA-capable path.

 

Skip

[Man in a van]

What I haven't seen yet is a discussion of the potential of using the I2S output on the RPi2 into a buffering/reclocker that then feeds an I2S DAC input. I'm presently using the HifiBerry Digi+ from the RPi2 pins to a SPDIF input DAC and that works very well. Others using the I2S direct DACs like the Audiophonics above on their Pi's seem happy. Is there an obstacle in the I2S output approach that would preclude implementation of a high-quality, high data-rate DSD configuration? That might be the NAA-capable path.

 

Skip

 

 

 

Skip, the Audiophinic boards have seperate inputs for usb power and I2S.

 

This is the model I have on a rpiB+

 

 

 

 

I have ordered one of these to try with a Regen and the above board.

 

 

 

 

 

When it arrives I'll see If I can connect the two and whilst I'm waiting I'll have a go at this NAA stuff (although as I mostly use streaming for wireless programs I'm not too fussed about Quality lol

 

atb

 

Ronnie.

[Pepsican]

I have ordered one of these to try with a Regen and the above board.

 

 

 

 

 

When it arrives I'll see If I can connect the two and whilst I'm waiting I'll have a go at this NAA stuff (although as I mostly use streaming for wireless programs I'm not too fussed about Quality lol

 

atb

 

Ronnie.

 

Silly question perhaps but how is that board better than using the standard USB port on the Pi?

[Man in a van]

Silly answer, definitely.

 

I have no idea.

 

Didn't say it was better.

 

Stuff doesn't always have to be better, just different, or worse, or the same, or FUN!!

[Pepsican]

Silly answer, definitely.

 

I have no idea.

 

Didn't say it was better.

 

Stuff doesn't always have to be better, just different, or worse, or the same, or FUN!!

 

Fun...?!??

[YashN]

Silly question perhaps but how is that board better than using the standard USB port on the Pi?

 

Not sure about the Raspi 2, but I think all of the previous Raspis had combined USB/Ethernet circuitry - not good for audiophiles.

[Man in a van]

Not sure about the Raspi 2, but I think all of the previous Raspis had combined USB/Ethernet circuitry - not good for audiophiles.

 

that well known condition!! That will be it then. rpi2 afflicted as well.

[YashN]

that well known condition!! That will be it then. rpi2 afflicted as well.

 

Darn, I was right to lose interest in the Raspis then. I still keep my original Raspi Rev B around just so I can use Wolfram Language with it.