Optical Network Configurations

[ericuco]

I have been monitoring this thread for a while with great interest and am almost ready to start down the optical network path but have a question that does not seem to have been addressed, at least I have not seen it addressed (sorry if I missed something).

 

Does the length of cabling play into the benefits? I can certainly see if you have long runs of Ethernet cables then the benefits seem a bit more obvious.

 

In my case, I have a Cisco switch near my Linux music server & NAA (Cubox-i - HQ Player) so the distance between the switch and the two computers is very short ... using Cat6a cables of 3 to 4 four feet in length. My NAS unit is set off at a slightly longer distance from the switch and connected with a 15 foot Cat6a cable. So relatively short Cat6a cables given that Cat6a can be stretched to well over 100 ft.

 

Also, the music server, NAA and Cisco switch are on LPS if that matters.

 

Best case scenario for optical network would be the Mellanox card for my music server & an optical switch but that still leaves using the TP-Link boxes to convert the optical signal to/from the copper signal on the NAS and NAA. So I would still need a few feet of Cat6a cables plus 2 conversions. Just trying to gauge what the expected benefit is for my situation.

 

Unlike other things in audio, this is a fairly inexpensive thing to do ... a few $100 ... but there is effort in getting everything ordered and setup. If there is anyone out there in a similar situation, I would very much like to hear from you.

[ericuco]

Thanks for the responses.

 

I have the process started by ordering a switch, the TP-Link converters and the Cisco receivers. I need to determine the cable lengths but can do so while the rest of the items are shipping. Also need to look at the power supply needs for each of the boxes.

 

Going to hold off on the Mellanox card for now to see what gains I get before having to open up my music server.

[ericuco]

Just a quick update for anyone interested plus I would like to bounce a few things off the experts.

 

For the optical switch, I have on order one of the inexpensive ones:

 

Wholesale Product Snapshot Product name is 10 ports 10/100/1000Mbps Ethernet Fiber Switch with 8 Gbit SFP ports and 2*10/100/1000Mbps RJ45

 

It has two RJ45 connectors so I was thinking that I could attach my NAS (port 1) as well as my Airport Extreme (port 2) which acts as a wireless connection to my home network & Internet. By doing so, I can avoid adding one of the TP-Link converters for the NAS. I am assuming that the switch performs the same function as the TP-Link converter. The optical switch will be in close proximity to these two pieces so very short Cat6a cables can be used.

 

I also have on order one of the Mellanox cards for my Linux music server. The card was only $18 on ebay (so what the hell), again avoiding one of the TP-Links converters for my music server.

 

So the only TP-Link converter needed will be used for the Cubox-i (NAA). I have 3 TP-Links converters on order so I may end up with extras.

 

I still need to order the fiber optic cables but wanted to get my placement of the various pieces confirmed before deciding on length of cables. Probably also need a few short runs of Cat6a cables but can wait to see how everything checks out.

 

Any comments from the experts about this configuration are welcome.

 

Edit: forgot to mention that by avoiding the two TP-Links converter also avoids two additional power supplies. So I would only be adding one additional power supply from what I have now.

[ericuco]

Latest update: I have a portion of the optical network up & running.

 

Got the Mellanox card installed as well as Linux drivers. Thankfully my neighbor is a Linux guy who helped out with getting a few dependencies installed.

 

No optical switch (in route from China) yet so using the TP-Link devices between music server & switch as well between switch & NAA, so 3 TP-Link devices.

 

Got short (2 ft) Ethernet cables on order so using slightly longer cables for now.

 

The only problem is that my Synology NAS no longer mounts to music server which is a real PITA. Not sure how to fix this. Ideas? Right now I have an external HDD hooked up via USB.

 

As for the SQ, so far sounds great. Hard to quantify. I recently added a REGEN so several changes.

[ericuco]

The only problem is that my Synology NAS no longer mounts to music server which is a real PITA. Not sure how to fix this. Ideas? Right now I have an external HDD hooked up via USB.

 

Ok, got my NAS unit to mount. Forgot that permissions on NAS needed updating for new IP address for the Mellanox card.

[ericuco]

Finally success!!!

 

I had a few issues but the biggest hang-up appears to be a bad Cisco module. I could NOT get my Linux server to connect using a number of different configurations. Thought I had a bad fiber optic cable. Swapped out one of the modules and presto, everything connected.

 

My current WORKING configuration is as follows:

 

Diablo switch with 2 Ethernet ports & 2 fiber optic ports

 

Synology NAS and Airport Extreme (wireless hub) are connected to the Ethernet ports

 

Linux music server & Cubox-i (NAA) are connected to the fiber optic ports

 

The Linux music server has a Mellanox fiber optic card so a direct connection to the Diablo switch.

 

There is a TP-Link converter between the Cubox-i and Diablo switch.

 

Fiber Optic Cables (6 m) fiber optic cables

 

Ethernet cables are Blue Jeans Cat 6a

[ericuco]

Congrats. Optical is not plug and play (especially with SFP PCIe cards) but IMO worth the effort. Let us know your impressions after you listen for a while.

 

Thanks to you, jabbr & ted_b for your assistance & encouragement. Also to my neighbor who is a Linux guy and helped with the Mellanox driver install which required some other programs (dependencies) to be installed.

 

Just listened to Patricia Barber - Verses, an album I know well, and all I can say is WOW!! I typically can't hear subtle differences in most tweaks like USB cables, power cables, etc. like many here on CA can. And, my system is pretty well sorted out. But this is no subtle change. Also listened briefly to Alison Krauss & Union Station - Paper Airplane, and had a similar result - WOW.

 

I am still a bit on "pins & needles" hoping that this configuration is robust meaning that everything connects when I have to power off/on various devices for whatever reason (e.g. reboot music server). Just found that one of my short Cat 6a cables from Blue Jeans Cables may be bad. I was going to use it to connect the NAS to the switch but the NAS would never connect. Swapped out cables and NAS connected.

 

If anyone is looking to good down this path, I have two extra TP-Link converters that I would probably sell for a decent price. PM me if interested.

[ericuco]

Finally success!!!

 

I had a few issues but the biggest hang-up appears to be a bad Cisco module. I could NOT get my Linux server to connect using a number of different configurations. Thought I had a bad fiber optic cable. Swapped out one of the modules and presto, everything connected.

 

My current WORKING configuration is as follows:

 

Diablo switch with 2 Ethernet ports & 2 fiber optic ports

 

Synology NAS and Airport Extreme (wireless hub) are connected to the Ethernet ports

 

Linux music server & Cubox-i (NAA) are connected to the fiber optic ports

 

The Linux music server has a Mellanox fiber optic card so a direct connection to the Diablo switch.

 

There is a TP-Link converter between the Cubox-i and Diablo switch.

 

Fiber Optic Cables (6 m) fiber optic cablesEthernet cables are Blue Jeans Cat 6a

 

Update:

 

I shuffled my configuration a bit.

 

I now have the NAS and Airport Extreme (wireless hub) connected to a Cisco (copper) switch. That switch in turn is connected to the Diablo switch (RJ45 port) using the copper > TP Link converter > fiber > TP Link converter > copper method. I had the two extra TP-Link converters so just had to order more fiber cables.

 

Everything else is as described above.

 

I also moved the NAS, switches, TP-Link converters to a closet under my stairs to the basement which allowed me to plug all of this into another electrical leg (circuit) other than my music system. I had to move to 15 m fiber cables in order to connect the Diablo switch to the music server & Cubox-i. I have a 6 m fiber cable running between the two switches which is overkill in that I only need a 1 m cable at the most. Thankfully, the fiber cable is inexpensive.

 

Not had a chance to do much listening to my system yet so nothing to report other than the network with the current configuration is working.

[ericuco]

Network Ethernet cable>NAS>Blue Jeans Ethernet patch cord>MC210CS>optical cable (unknown type)>MC210CS>Blue Jeans Ethernet patch cord>Aries>USB cable>DAC ??

 

I think you are almost there. The NAS will need to be connected to your network in order to get an IP address assigned. So you need to connect it (NAS) to your router by some means. This is where a switch (copper or fiber optic) may come into play depending on where your router is located.

 

If you can connect the NAS directly into your router, then you are good to go.

 

NAS > Ethernet patch cable (port 1) > router > Ethernet patch cable (port 2) > TP-Link > fiber optic cable > TP-Link > Ethernet patch cable > Aries > USB > DAC

 

If you can't locate NAS near your router, then you will need to run a Ethernet cable or use a wireless access point (e.g. Airport Express) to your NAS. Or something like:

 

Router (or wireless access point) > Ethernet patch cable (port 1) > Switch (copper) > Ethernet cable (port 2) > NAS as well as

Switch > Ethernet patch cable (port 3) > TP-Link > fiber optic cable > TP-Link > Ethernet patch cable > Aries > USB > DAC

 

Then I have another question. Which NAS is the best (of course cost is also important)?

 

I have been using an inexpensive Synology DS115j (single bay) with a 2 TB drive for some time now & have been very pleased.

[ericuco]

Was finally about to order the cheap oem Diablo switch but seems to be 'no longer available':

 

10 ports 10/100/1000Mbps Ethernet Fiber Switch with 8 Gbit SFP ports and 2*10/100/1000Mbps RJ45 -in Network Switches from Computer & Office on Aliexpress.com | Alibaba Group

 

They seem to offering a newer model (wouldn't use copper ports) but, seeing as it's not the Diablo as such, it's going to be a risk I guess. Not sure I want to be a guinea pig

 

Aliexpress.com : Buy New model 10 ports full gigabit fiber Ethernet with 8*GIGA SFP slot and 2*10/100/1000M TX free shipping from Reliable fiber odf suppliers on POE&Optical fiber solution | Alibaba Group

 

Any advice appreciated..

 

Edit: just realised the specs are identical other than cosmetic. The only difference is the newer model is 12V instead of 5V. Maybe not so risky....

 

I bought the one switch with 8 SFP ports and 2 copper (RJ45) ports off Aliexpress but could not get it to work. Ended up buying a Diablo (2 SFP & 2 RJ45) which has worked without issue. I didn't spend much time trying to troubleshoot the Aliepxress unit, but there is much you can do other than plug everything in (there wasn't even a user's manual).

 

Aliexpress: 10 ports 10/100/1000Mbps Ethernet Fiber Switch with 8 Gbit SFP ports and 2*10/100/1000Mbps RJ45

 

If you want to try the Aliexpress unit, I would gladly sell mine for cheap. PM me if interested.

[ericuco]

BTW, any advice on fiber cables? There are so many to choose from.

 

Here is what I used:

 

LC TO LC MULTIMODE 10GB OM3 FIBER OPTIC PATCH CABLE

 

I have ordered from these guys twice and both times no issues.

[ericuco]

Update: I switched out my Mellanox NIC & Cisco SFP module for an Intel X520-DA1 NIC and Intel E10GSFPSR SFP module. This was partly based on a suggestion by Jabbr saying that the Intel equipment is less problematic.

 

During a recent routine Linux update, the Mellanox driver failed to load. I had to reinstall the driver. Not a big deal but ...

 

For Linux, the Intel driver (ixgbe module) is included in the standard Ubunutu Studio distribution (as well as others) so nothing needed to install. Just plug in NIC and go. All driver updates should be handled with the standard Linux updates.

 

One thing with the Intel NIC is that you generally need to use an Intel SFP module or one of the very few compatible SFP modules:

 

SFP+ Modules, SFP Modules, and Cables Compatible with Intel® Ethernet...

[ericuco]

Thank you Bob!

 

PS> With your FMCs, what short Ethernet cables are you using? I was thinking of picking up a couple of short Meicords, - but wondering if you have any experience with not noticing much difference with say, a standard CAT6.

 

Cheers,

 

Blue Jean Cables are popular choices.

 

Data Cables at Blue Jeans Cable

 

You can get them in custom lengths & colors. Great company as well.

[ericuco]

Network card:

I am using a single mode fiber network and I just got two Intel compatible SFP+ 10 km. From what I read on the Intel side and from recommendations from jabber he is recommending x520 cards. There are quiet a few cards and I already posted jabbr wich one to use. So I would like to know wich model of the x520 is the right one for me and compatible with Windows 10.

Thanks for your help

 

On my Linux server, I have using the Intel X520-DA1 NIC. There is also a -DA2 version with two SFP ports (-DA1 has one port).

 

With Linux, the drivers (ixgbe) for the NIC are included in the OS so nothing additional to install. No idea about Windows 10 drivers but perhaps you can check the Intel support page.

[ericuco]

For me, this is a winning combination, wouldn't even consider spending hundreds more on 30ft of "high-quality" CAT7 with CAT6 connectors.

 

+1

[ericuco]

Hi,

 

Shouldn't have anything to do with the Mini. Did you get the microrendu up and happy with no fiber whatsoever? Standard RJ45 directly from router to switch with the microRendu?

 

1. Connect up microRendu with 1 RJ45 cable directly to router or switch.

2. Go into sonicorbiter.com, - go to Power Down

3. Power down microRendu and disconnect power cord AND RJ45 from microRendu

4. Unplug power from TPLink MC220L receiver.

5. Power down fiber switch, or TPLink sender FMC.

6. Switch MC220L to FORCE

7. Power back up fiber switch.

8. Power back up MC220L

9. Connect up short CAT6 RJ45 from MC220L

10. Connect power cable from supply to microRendu.

 

With both the MC220L & the switch, - it's important that both get powered down before switching to Force.

 

Apologies in advance if you've already tried the above and it still failed....

 

Cheers,

 

As a point of reference, my TP-LINK MC220L is set on Auto and everything works. This the unit between my Diablo switch and microRendu.

[ericuco]

Anyone have a recommendation on good short run car6 cable between media converter and attached device? Bought some stock 18" cat6 patch cables. sounded awful when connected to mRendu vs the 1m Audioquest Pearl. Or does the patch cable only matter between mRendu and media converter?

 

Blue Jeans Cables are popular and are made to length. Great company.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Computer Audiophile

[ericuco]

Yes, these FMCs will work at 5 volts. Strangely mine sounded different at 5 vs. 9 volts.

 

Funny, I had the same experience in that the SQ seemed to degrade using 5v.

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Computer Audiophile

[ericuco]

In the end, I retired the FMCs in favor of isolation transformers. Passive just sounds better here.

 

Sorry if this has been covered previously, but could share the isolation transformers you are using?

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Computer Audiophile

[ericuco]

Looking to improve my PS for the Trendnet...1A/5V. Would this Jameco be worthwhile?

DDU050100H4660: Jameco Reliapro : AC to DC Power Supply Wall Adapter Transformer Single Output 5 Volt 1 Amp 5 Watt : Power Supplies & Wall Adapters

 

Any other ideas? If a battery is the best alternative, I'd like one that charges while in use.

 

Thanks Guys

Chris

 

Some of us have seen better performance (SQ) for whatever reason with a 9V PS like:

 

GPU41090500WD00: Jameco Reliapro : 4.5W AC-to-DC Regulated Linear Wall Adapter 9 Volt 0.5 Amps : Power Supplies & Wall Adapters

 

Edit: Sorry just reread your post and had misread it. The PS I mentioned is for the FMC units that lots of people are using.

[ericuco]

15 hours ago, McNulty said:

For implementing 10GB SFP in a home network for hifi purposes, the QNAP QSW-308S switch

( https://www.qnap.com/en/product/qsw-308s) mentioned later on in the thread might be an interesting product that seems relatively affordable. 

 

I was looking at that switch until I came across a note on QNAP website for the switch that states:

 

"Note: The 10GbE SFP+ ports are not backward compatible with 1GbE SFP."

 

I am no expert in this area but the only 10GbE equipment I have in my system is my Intel fiber optic NIC. I believe all of the Sonore products are not 10GbE but please correct me if I am wrong on this.

 

As such, I am now looking at the QNAP QSW-804-4C switch which appears to be backward compatible. Any advice from the experts would be welcome.

[ericuco]

Received my new QNAP QSW-804-4C switch today that is replacing an inexpensive Chinese brand switch.

 

I have four connections:

 

1) Finisar FTLX8574D3BCL modules (10Gb) connected to Linux music server w/ Intel X520-DA1 NIC (10Gb/1Gb) on one of the 10Gb ports

2) Finisar FTLF8519P3BNL modules (1Gb) connected to opticalModule on one of the combo-ports

3) Finisar FTLF8519P3BNL modules (1Gb) connected to TP Link MC220 which connects to Google Wifi point ... Internet & NAS on one of the combo-ports

4) Cat6 (RJ-45 - 100Mb) connected to Roku Ultra > TV on one of the combo-ports

 

One note on the switch which wasn't clear in the documentation is that the first four port SFP+ ports are 10Gb only. I had plugged my 1Gb modules in and they didn't work on these ports. So, I moved them to the combo-ports and they worked. In other words the four combo-ports are 10/100/1000 & 10 GB ports. Probably not an issue for most people but still wanted to people aware of it.

 

Also, this switch does have "smart" cooling fans but so far the unit is not running hot, cool to the touch.

 

Only had time to listen to one album so far and really liking what I am hearing in terms of SQ.

 

Not to dish on the soon to be released switch from Uptone, but this configuration is more flexible (more ports & variety of ports), less expensive (about $550 including switch & modules) and supports higher speed modules (although speed is probably not with audio systems). That said, it will be interesting to see what people have to say about SQ.

 

Thanks to @jabbr for his assistance in getting this together.

[ericuco]

28 minutes ago, JohnDonaldson said:

I have been using this switch for several months and really like it.  For a time I had a 1 Gbe SFP in one of first 4 ports.  Got an output to drive a Ethernet device but the LED status indicators on the port never worked.

Interesting. I never actually tried to use those ports with 1Gb SFP's. Just saw that indicator lights did not come on and assumed it didn't accept the 1Gb SFP's.

 

IMHO, this switch is a good option for this community where you don't need lots of ports. Most of the industrial-grade switches (used on ebay) I had considered had 12, 24, 48 ports which are overkill for my intended purposes. Also, the combo-ports make it very flexible and somewhat future proof.

 

Compared to the inexpensive Chinese-brand switch I was using, this switch is a tank. Some of it can be contributed to the internal PS (vs external PS).

[ericuco]

Well dang-it, this would have been perfect for my needs - 4 SFP+ slots but I purchased the QNAP QSW-804-4C a few weeks ago. Certainly happy with the QNAP unit but it was lots more $$$.

 

Where did you get the Foundry 1G RG-45 module? I could still use this unit to replace my one TP Links FMC.

[ericuco]

On 8/3/2018 at 11:41 AM, jabbr said:

Really sweet: https://www.solid-run.com/product-tag/macchiatobin-single-shot/

https://www.solid-run.com/clearcloud-cloud-iot-core/

and https://www.solid-run.com/marvell-armada-family/clearfog-gt-8k/

10Gbe  

Relevant for audio? Maybe not today ... maybe today

10Gbe guarantees 5.5 ps end to end jitter ... i.e. the specs of the higher speed fiberoptic networks require less "jitter" so if you are concerned about jitter and noise etc, the bar keeps on getting higher and higher ... e.g. the board needs a better clock, better chips etc. etc. etc.

 

Has anyone tried one of these units as a HQP NAA?

 

I asked @Miska about it and he thought one of the Debian versions might work. It would be good to load one of the NAA images onto a SD card and be good to go.