The "Official" Aurender Discussion Thread

[Vincent1234]

56 minutes ago, scoc said:

Who knows ... maybe all their software developers guys ("persons") are busy working on getting them Roon Ready. Maybe an announcement soon (High End Munich)?

Not likely and actually I don't hope so.. Roon means a LOT of additional processing capacity which regularly doesn't help sound quality.

[Vincent1234]

2 hours ago, Anonamemouse said:

It's hospital grade CAT6, so I doubt it can get much better than that.

 

I don't doubt at all. Based on my own experience and on others' responses. Actually, they fell off their chairs and couldn't believe their ears hearing the difference. Really..

[Vincent1234]

1 hour ago, Mazza said:

Just suggesting that some might want to try it themselves; my trial was also based on noticing that Aurender are isolating their LAN port on their later models. Don’t have enough money to do a double side-by-side blind test of W20’s

 

Oooh look, I can do rolly eyes too 🙄

I fully support you! The W20 is VERY sensitive to the Ethernet connection and pollution coming in through it. That's why I invested in a Melco S100 switch with a very silent Farad S3 LPS. It made a huge difference; in fact, improving my network was the single most cost-effective upgrade I have made in many years. If you think the iFi made a difference (and I'm sure it did), I would kindly advise you to try a better switch such as the Melco too. Furthermore I'd recommend to experiment with better network cables; especially the last one connected to your Aurender will make a very big impact. Just try it and trust your ears.

 

I am sure many will still laugh at us though, unfortunately. To those laughing: no, this is not about the ones and zeroes. They will reach your Aurender just fine, even with the cheapest of cables, routers and switches. The TCP/IP protocol is very solid. This is about common mode noise entering your Aurender through Ethernet. And common mode noise travels through the whole of your system and is screwing up fine details, especially in your DAC. This is not fantasy but science; common mode noise can be heard and measured (check Alpha Audio's recent extensive switch tests). 

 

Simple test for the non-believers: start playing a track on your Aurender and then listen to the same track again after having unplugged your network cable. Easy, right? Very likely you will hear a significant improvement. 

[Vincent1234]

@Ponzi Yes, it can make a difference, as an optical connection will employ galvanic isolation. But.. using an optical connection also means you will have a double signal conversion: first from electric to optical and second back again from optical to electric. This can cause troubles too. In my experience a (very) good network cable will sound better than an optical solution.

[Vincent1234]

10 minutes ago, krass said:

 

How does a mains cable affect sound quality, if it isn’t in the audio path ?

 

 

The internet is full of different ways to describe how noise sources can propagate to signal paths, so here is just one of them:

1. Galvanic (direct electrical contact)
2. Electrostatic (or capacitative) coupling
3. Electromagnetic induction
4. Radio frequency interference (RFI)

 

I’m sceptical myself about how signal path noise could appear via an ethernet cable in this Aurender case mentioned, but theoretically there is a mechanism since the ethernet path includes powered transmitters & receivers inside the Aurender box. 

Suggest to try my simple test mentioned above and see if you can hear a difference. Easy and for free. 😉

[Vincent1234]

42 minutes ago, Ponzi said:

Vincent1234: Will you explain what you mean by “network” cable? I have an optical cable running from the router (on a different floor of the house) to a Telegartner switch, which feeds both my ASC10 and W20SE. I recently had a new cable installed from the junction box (internet service) to my system, so I have the option of replacing the optic cable with ethernet. I am not terribly tech savvy, so any guidance would be much appreciated.

Sure. If I understand you correctly, you can now choose to feed your Aurenders via the current optical cable or via the new 'regular' Ethernet. In this case it could be worthwhile to try a good switch (like the Bonn N8 or - better but much more expensive - Melco S100) near your Aurenders and from there use a high-quality Ethernet cable (which I called 'network cable' earlier) as the last cable between that switch and your Aurenders. The last cable has the most audible impact. The other cables can improve sound quality too, but less so. So I would primarily invest in the last cable. Keep the audiophile switch close to the Aurenders so you will only need 1-1,5 m. of this more expensive cable.

This way you could avoid using optical connections altogether. However, the Melco switch can also accept optical inputs, as an option and at an additional price. So in that case you could also experiment by testing your current optical connection as the input for the Melco versus the Ethernet input. In both cases you would use an Ethernet output to the Aurenders. My expectation would be however that full Ethernet will likely sound the best (as opposed to using optical).

Sorry if I make it a bit complex. There are many ways to do this. A good dealer should be able to advise you in more detail based on your actual situation.

Hope this helps.

 

[Vincent1234]

19 minutes ago, Ponzi said:

Thank you very much and, no, that’s not too complex. As I mentioned, I have the fiber optic cable feeding the Telegartner switch, which in turn feeds both of my Aurenders. That switch came with two quite beefy cables that screw into the face of the switch and terminate with ethernet fittings at each Aurender. I will try an ethernet cable to the switch and report back on the change.  Thanks again. 

You're very welcome. I realized just now that your W20SE already has galvanic isolation on its Ethernet input (which my older W20 apparently hasn't). This will likely decrease the impact of an audiophile switch (your Telegartner switch might be pretty good too) and of a high quality 'last' Ethernet cable. However, my recent experience with similar upgrades was simply astounding. E.g. I recently bought the Crystal Connect Da Vinci Ethernet cable as an upgrade over my previous Crystal Monet Ethernet cable (which is already crazy good). Yes, it is really very expensive, but the improvements were pretty incredible too. So in my situation it was worth every penny.

In any case the old adagium always remains: try (and listen!) before you buy. 😉

Hope it will bring you further gains.

 

[Vincent1234]

27 minutes ago, mjb said:

Correct.

 

If one finds $90 of resistors in the network path of a $20k streamer can improve the audio to the point of having to gush about it, I can only think that streamer wasn't designed correctly - or should at least incorporate those resistors, lol.

Indeed I think that's the case. However the W20SE apparently has a double isolation. And I believe even very cheap switches also have some sort of galvanic isolation. But still there are big differences in how they impact the sound quality. They can be expensive, but they don't need to be. For more info you can just check out Alpha Audio's (it's a Dutch site, but also available in English) recent test of about 10 switches. One of the cheaper and still pretty good ones was EUR 30 at the time; now about EUR 40.

[Vincent1234]

9 hours ago, kipdent said:

This discussion piqued my interest, too, so I purchased an iFi LAN iSilencer this week. Rarely do the claims of immediately noticing something very different hold true, but I have to admit its introduction into my system (directly into my Aurender N100C Ethernet port) did make an immediate difference. My setup is a likely a bit different than most, though, in that my Ethernet connection actually *does* carry a signal to my DAC because I am using a Merging Technologies NADAC, using Aurender's RAVENNA support within Conductor. Nonetheless, here is what I heard:

 

- Instant change in the character of the midbass. For example, Mark Knopfler's vocal on "Iron Hand" from the album On Every Street was much easier to follow, as if someone had slightly raised the 250Hz area on an equalizer.

 

- A slightly brighter and more open presentation in the 3000Hz to 4000Hz range, making, in the track above, Knopfler's voice have just a smidge more presence. 

 

- Probably due to the improved presence, the soundstage seemed a tad wider, though that was probably from noticing the cleaner edge on widely spaced instruments in this mix.

 

Overall, my first impressions are positive. But here's the thing--whether in a USB-based DAC or an Ethernet-based DAC, what's really happening here? Are all these changes due to a lower noise floor (as claimed by the manufacturer), or is the LAN iSilencer somehow acting as some sort of equalizer (which it sure sounds like to me)? Regardless, seems like a small investment to make to hear these interesting differences.

It's not an equalizer, but a filtering of common mode noise. I kindly refer to my previous posts explaining more. Happy it works out for you!

[Vincent1234]

8 hours ago, audionic said:

i use an Etheregen in line with my ethernet and find it makes a substantial sound improvement in streaming AND internal hd playback on my A10.

 

I had a dealer tell me that noise on the ethernet will effect playback sound quality on internal HD playback as well. I did not believe it so he pulled the ethernet connection from an N100H at the time and the improvement was notable. This was in a business district with presumed high internet usage of various kinds.

 

Probably a lot depends on the model and the noise level on your network. But it's an easy test. Just pull the network cable while playing off the internal hd.

Simply unplugging the Ethernet cable is what I suggested in my earlier post too. The best way to silence the nay-sayers. 😉

[Vincent1234]

2 hours ago, CP010 said:

Well i am intrigued about this iFi LAN iSilencer. I just purchased the new A 200 streamer, dac and sever and its still in its burning in fase. Vincent you also think this will make a difference on the new models?

I wouldn't be surprised if it will. Just ask your audio dealer if you can try one at home. Let us know your thoughts, please.

[Vincent1234]

6 hours ago, Mazza said:

 

As I said at the beginning of this sub-thread ... buy on Amazon and try-it/return-it if no benefit. No brainer. I kept.

 

Or as @Vincent1234 suggested, if you are not streaming your played music and you are playing off the HDD, just try unplugging your ethernet cable temporarily.

 

Good luck, let us know how you get on.

The effect should be the same for playing off streaming services and playing off the HDD. It's all about prohibiting noise entering your system through Ethernet. Unplugging is indeed a very simple test that works. Good luck!

[Vincent1234]

13 minutes ago, cat3600 said:

Greetings from Canada! I am a long time lurker on this site and the Aurender forum. My current digital front end is Aurender N10 and MSB Premier DAC.

 

I would like to share my outstanding experience with Aurender support specially with Kelly in the US. @AurenderAmerica

Last year I reached out to Aurender complaining about transformer hum/buzzing noise form my N10. The dealer did some troubleshooting and Aurender sent out a new Power Supply board. The replacement board was probably damaged in shipping and wasn't working properly as my unit was randomly shutting down. Aurender sent out another board quickly which has worked fine since then.

 

Keep in mind my unit is close to 5 years old and was not under warranty. This is the best customer service one can ask for, my experience talking to Aurender and their prompt responses was beyond excellent, so very professional. Needless to say, for all future upgrades I will be sticking to this company, hopefully the N20 or W20SE.

 

Thanks again Aurender!

Awesome! 👍🏻

[Vincent1234]

2 hours ago, AurenderAmerica said:

@Hans-Ingo thank you for the bug reports. We will see that these issues get fixed promptly.

Besides these possible early bugs, I am pleasantly surprised with 4.0! Finally the long awaited Android phone aurender app works great and fast too! My thanks and compliments!

[Vincent1234]

4 hours ago, Quadiffusor HK said:

After upgrading my W20’s software to version 4.23.364, I saw distorted icons and menus, as well as experienced non-responsive screen commands on my iPad software interface.

 

Subsequently, I upgraded my iPad’s Aurender App version to 3.28(2), and all things appeared well, with commands and interfaces seemingly returning back to the familiar past (with the previous software version).

 

EXCEPT that now there is no data output on my W20 on the USB output (the primary link to my MSB Select II DAC, via the external PRO ISL unit).

 

The software updates have resulted in no more music, and have turned my W20 into a brick!!  I’ve just sent a remote assistance request through the help function, and hoping that a response and a cure will be swift.

 

WARNING:  there are still critical bugs in the system, and I would advise others not to update any of the software until the problems have been eradicated!

 

I'm sorry about your troubles. I also own a W20 and it might be useful to you to know I had no troubles updating whatsoever and I'm also using its USB output to my DAC. I trust this can be solved quickly.

[Vincent1234]

15 hours ago, michaelD said:

I’ve seen many testy comments on Version 4.  Personally since the latest fix a couple of weeks ago I have found it very solid on the latest iPhone and version 3 is working great on my original mini iPad.  
 

I also see snide comments on this missing feature or that.  Understand Aurender is very sensitive to add anything that may impact sound playback quality I mean nothing!!   I’m sure now with the chance to a software that allows easier updates many more user wants will get done.  Have a bit of patience please. 

So true, thank you! Actually I am rather annoyed by some of the negative comments here. I am sure that negative news travels faster than positive news, unfortunately. I hope I belong to the majority of owners who are really happy with the current developments. To those that still have special wishes, please realize it might be just only a few of you that e.g. thrive on using extensive metadata. I myself am primarily listening to music. When I need more info Google is my friend.