How to improve my streaming setup?

[SolarFlight]

Hello,

My first post here at CA. I have been reading up a little about streaming and think/hope to have a view about the approaches and the basic components. Could you please provide some suggestions on how to improve my streaming solution? Budget wise, nothing to crazy. Around €1000 for the streaming client optimisation. I'm assuming that the LAN approach gives the best sound quality.

 

Currently I have

 

• a Raspberry PI with PiCorePlayer for the streaming client (cable)
  
• an iFi iDSD Micro as an usb dac
  
• an ASRock 330 with Daphile (LMS) as the music server. LMS because
  
  • easy setup in the future to have streaming music services
    

   

  [*]a Synology NAS DS209 for storage

  [*]iPeng as the remote

 

Sound wise the following could be done I suppose

 

• For the streaming client
  
  • Continue with the Raspberry but change to a linear power supply
    
    • Tomanek ULPS mini
      
    • Aqvox?
      
    • iFi USB power
      

     

    [*]Move to a BeagleBone Black and wait for the external clock board from Twisted Pear

    [*]Move to a SOTM SMS-100

    [*]...

 

• Towards USB optimisation
  
  • Wyrd USB Decrapifier
    
  • Upcoming Uptone Audio Regen
    
  • Olimex usb isolator
    

 

• Towards connection
  
  • Would a wireless bridge powered by an lpsu be an improvement?
    

Component wise

 

• Merge ASRock and Synology NAS to a Lenovo TS140 Xeon E3-1225v3.
  
  • Run Ubuntu with LMS and maybe in the future HQPlayer.
    

 

If my assumptions are off, let me know. I'm a bit lost in the sea of possibilities :-)

[ecwl]

My take on this is that if you're not planning to upgrade your USB DAC, your best bet is to optimize the power supply. Changing the ASRock and Synology into the Lenovo is unlikely to upgrade the sound and I consider it busy work. Those USB optimization stuff may work well for your current system but if you ever upgrade your USB DAC, they may improve but may also worsen the DAC's sound depending on the new DAC's USB design. You can really upgrade the USB DAC power supply in two ways and some people say both ways are helpful. You can run a linear power supply to the Raspberry. And/Or you can get the iFi USB power. In theory, doing both would get you the most. You won't know until you try it. I don't think there's any right or wrong here. If you get the iFi USB power and decide to upgrade the USB DAC in the future, you can always try it out and if there's no great synergy, it'll probably be easier to sell the iFi USB & the iFi DSD Micro together as a package. But then you can just get the linear power supply for the Raspberry first as you'll keep that as a system for a long time and most linear power supply can power other future mini-desktops that you'll build. The linear power supply should provide better power through the USB port to the iFi DSD Micro to start with. And then you can decide whether to upgrade to the iFi USB power later. Really no right or wrong here. Just new ways to squeeze more out of your current system. If you have 1000 euros to spare, I'd probably do both. But then for 1000 euros, I might just get a new DAC...

[SolarFlight]

Thanks ecwl for the feedback. That gives me direction in the power supply optimization.

 

With the iFi iUSBPower it looks like one can do the following

 

• iUSBPower output power only -> Raspberry micro USB input
  
• Raspberry USB output -> iUSBPower USB input
  
• iUSBPower output power + audio > iDSD Micro
  

Btw I have the iDSD since four months. My first step into computer audio. Gives me a lot of possibilities to explore.

Perhaps it is also time for me to start reading upon other DACs.

 

Oh, and your profile mentioned the book "Get Better Sound". I ordered a copy.

[ecwl]

I'm actually curious what's getting you better sound, Oppo BDP-95 playing a CD or the same CD played off the Raspberry through your iDSD. Or are they just different sounding? And what do you prefer? That might give people reading the forum as to what new DACs you should consider...

[SolarFlight]

A good but difficult question to answer. Made me realize that I'm not only making my first steps in computer audio but also in audio component listening.

 

I did a quick comparison, some soulful close harmony and trio jazz

 

My current, highly subjective impression about the sound

 

• The Oppo 95 - rhythmically tighter but less sparkle, a bit more muffled, less seperation in the instruments
  
• Raspberry+iDSD Micro - more sparkle and detail, looses sometime tightness in the rhythm, more expression of the musicians, better seperation, more to discover
  

I prefer the Raspberry+iDSD Micro. It crossed my mind as that there is more to discover, there is also more potential for fatigue due to sensory information. Independant from the source, sometimes I think that the bass hides other instruments. That could be my setup or the mastering? Don't know.

 

DACs that piked my interest

 

• Eastern Electric MiniMax Supreme. I have the opportunity to go and audition one in a few days
  
• AudioByte Black Dragon
  
• iFi Mini, which is scheduled for end Q1/Q2 2015 according to a head-fi thread
  

[ecwl]

It would be interesting to hear your thoughts on the MiniMax Supreme. Based on a review I've read, that DAC may give you the best of both worlds, from the iDSD & the Oppo. So you may forego any power supply upgrades and go with a new DAC first.

[davide256]

Ditch the Raspberry Pi and buy a SoTM SMS100 streamer. You can plug the Ifi Nano via USB into the SoTM SMS100 and stream

music from the Synology DS209. Assuming you can run Minimserver on the Synology you have, you should be able to then stream play

all formats including DSD if you follow the SMS100 and Minimserver setup instructions.

[SolarFlight]

Additional questions about the MiniMax Supreme that I ask myself

• Is there Linux support?
  
• What about the possibility to upgrade to DSD256?
  

 

But I'll first have a listen

[SolarFlight]

Hi Dave,

I was thinking about the SoTM SMS-100 streamer. I'm absolutely convinced that it would give me more convenience for switching between players (Squeeze, DLNA, NAA) for experimentation. Are there also sonic benefits? I have read that a good power supply also has quite some impact on it.

 

About using Minimserver, I don't know what it would bring to the table. I'm quite happy about LMS and the iPeng app.

[Rick Yarussi]

I have a similar setup (RPi B+), but am using a HiFiberry Digi to feed the SPDIF input of an Arcam rDAC. I got the version of the Digi with galvanic isolation of the SPDIF output. The purpose of the Digi was to avoid the power supply issues with USB DAC's. Whether this is actually better or not, I don't know yet. Just got it all working yesterday.

 

Everything is wired ethernet except the iPad (with iPeng).

 

Currently using my MacBook Pro with LMS. My next step is to replace that with a simple NAS. Any advice here would be welcome. I don't need a ton of space, 500GB is fine. I'm planning to go SSD.

 

Would a better power supply for the rDAC or the RPi make a difference? Seems like the former would be most important, but I'll look into upgrading both.

 

~Rick

[davide256]

Minimserver supports DSD streaming, and gapless with Kinsky controller, very few other options to do so. I was able to do DSD streaming with SMB but lost gapless using that option. Does LMS support DSD playback and gapless?

[YashN]

What you could do is use a BeagleBone instead of the Raspi, and then do a client-server setup with your server computer running HQ Player, and the BeagleBone acting as NAA, and running the network audio daemon. In turn the BB feeds your iFi DAC through USB.

 

This will already clean up a lot of the whole playback chain.

 

Then you can additionally try the other components (they might not be needed after that setup).

[Rick Yarussi]

What you could do is use a BeagleBone instead of the Raspi, and then do a client-server setup with your server computer running HQ Player, and the BeagleBone acting as NAA, and running the network audio daemon. In turn the BB feeds your iFi DAC through USB.

 

This will already clean up a lot of the whole playback chain.

 

Then you can additionally try the other components (they might not be needed after that setup).

 

YashN, can you explain why that setup would be cleaner? You've replaced the Pi with BB, LMS with HQ Player, piCorePlayer with "newtwork audio daemon". Right?

[YashN]

Maybe Miska is better placed to reply but the Raspi has a combined USB/Ethernet unit, so it isn't well-suited for that job IMO. Secondly, HQ Player has been designed and optimised for a long time to work in this kind of setup (server + NAA).

 

I only have a Raspi for now, but I'll replace it at the first opportunity. The end goal is to have as simple a device near the DAC doing Ethernet / USB and that's about it.

 

YashN, can you explain why that setup would be cleaner? You've replaced the Pi with BB, LMS with HQ Player, piCorePlayer with "newtwork audio daemon". Right?

[Rick Yarussi]

Maybe Miska is better placed to reply but the Raspi has a combined USB/Ethernet unit, so it isn't well-suited for that job IMO. Secondly, HQ Player has been designed and optimised for a long time to work in this kind of setup (server + NAA).

 

I only have a Raspi for now, but I'll replace it at the first opportunity. The end goal is to have as simple a device near the DAC doing Ethernet / USB and that's about it.

 

That's why I got the HiFiBerry Digi board with galvanically isolated SPDIF out. I don't use USB at all. See my signature...

[YashN]

I've seen that. What are the format restrictions as well as the maximum rates you can use this way although you benefit from galvanic isolation?

 

Can you play DSD256 files? DXD files?

 

That's why I got the HiFiBerry Digi board with galvanically isolated SPDIF out. I don't use USB at all. See my signature...

[Rick Yarussi]

I've seen that. What are the format restrictions as well as the maximum rates you can use this way although you benefit from galvanic isolation?

 

Can you play DSD256 files? DXD files?

 

From the Digi website: "Dedicated S/PDIF interface chip supports up to 192kHz/24bit resolution".

 

I think the available formats are determined by the version of SqueezeLite that piCorePlayer is using. You can select Triodes or Ralphys version.

 

From the piCorePlayer configuration screen: "Ralphys newest version. Download and update Squeezelite. This one allows upsampling using SOX and can play wma and alac via ffmpeg"

 

That's all I know at the moment. Just got this running a couple days ago and haven't experimented with a lot of different formats yet.

[Rick Yarussi]

From: https://github.com/ralph-irving/squeezelite/blob/master/ChangeLog.txt

 

Version 1.4 28/12/13

====================

Features

- native support of dsd playback to dop capable dac or via conversion to pcm and resampling

- support dop in flac playback to dop dacs

[miggyboys]

Hi Solarflight

 

I'd say €1000 is a lot of money for a streaming device compared to some of the other components in your setup. I don't think spending this on a better streamer would get you as good an increase in sound quality as it would if you were to spend it on a DAC or Streamer/DAC in one.

 

A decent stream is important but it's the DAC that's converting the files from digital to analogue, and the detail/characteristics in sound you're mentioning in your other reply will be largely created by the DAC. But output (speakers) and amplification is also important. Some DACs have excellent headphone amplifiers built in, others have average ones.

 

You haven't mentioned what speakers you're using? Headphones or PC speakers/desktop or standmounts/floorstanders?

 

In your price range, you could look at these DACs:

 

Chord Chordette Qute EX - €1250 (Above your budget but superb)

Audiolab M-DAC - €700 (Also superb)

Or these streamers/DACs in one:

 

Cambridge Audio Stream Magic 6 V2 - €900

Pioneer N50 - €650

 

Regards

[SolarFlight]

Hi Dave,

It looks like the LMS environment supports gapless and dsd playback.

 

For dsd there are plugins in Daphile

 

• DSD Player by Kimmo, Triode
  
• PlayDSD Audio Files by DPhil
  

Did some twiddling but haven't got it working

 

To be checked of course.

 

Minimserver supports DSD streaming, and gapless with Kinsky controller, very few other options to do so. I was able to do DSD streaming with SMB but lost gapless using that option. Does LMS support DSD playback and gapless?

[SolarFlight]

Hello Rick, YashN

The HifiDigi+ is interesting. No more soldering for the + version. I should also try the different SqueezeLite implementations.

 

Rick, as a replacement for a NAS you could set up a complete server, like the Lenovo TS140 Xeon E3-1225v3. It gives flexibility, but it means you'll spend time on software installation/configuration. I was thinking to go this route as the latest LMS software is not supported anymore as quick install package for the Synology NAS.

 

For the BeagleBone Black, it is an interesting device. I also read it would be better as an audioplayer due to technical design. There was only one disadvantge/advantage. Something about the clock. More info here. But there is an external board in the works. Something to follow up. Trying out HQPlayer is on the list.

 

My goal is also to have a simple client device doing Ethernet/USB/SPDIF.

[YashN]

From the Digi website: "Dedicated S/PDIF interface chip supports up to 192kHz/24bit resolution".

 

That's what I thought. 192kHz/24bit is still quite good, but I would feel like doing myself a disservice if I had to down-convert all my DSD files as well not being to up-convert to 384kHz that my DAC can read.

 

Not dabbled too much with Logitech MS and Squeezebox and similar software. Got mpd to install on the Raspberry Pi but haven't gone round to testing it further.

[YashN]

Hi Dave,

It looks like the LMS environment supports gapless and dsd playback.

 

DSD4x playback?

[YashN]

For the BeagleBone Black, it is an interesting device. I also read it would be better as an audioplayer due to technical design. There was only one disadvantge/advantage. Something about the clock. More info here.

 

More than one advantage: as mentioned above, the Raspi has a single unit (hub) which processes USB and Ethernet). This means more noise and probably bandwidth issues when using both Ethernet and USB as compared to the BBB which has separate units treating each protocol.

[ecwl]

I see a lot of suggestions to change the NAS or streamer setup. While I've seen and heard sonic improvements with these changes, it's always a bit of a crap shoot so unless someone else has tried "upgrading" from the Raspberry Pi setup to the other streamers and gotten clear sonic upgrades, these software and hardware changes may be meaningful from a user interface and functionality point of view but they may or may not yield any sonic benefits.

 

That's why if the purpose of the upgrades is to improve sound quality, upgrading the DAC or power supply is likely to yield more bang for the buck and more bang for your time. However, if there's a local user who can lend you their existing computer hardware+software or streamer setup to try at your home with the iDSD, by all means, try that too.

 

With all that said, some people treat the upgrading of the computer as a hobby. So tweaking computer software and hardware is a pleasurable activity to some whether it yields none or subtle or possibly significant sonic improvements. I think if that sort of tweaking is fun to you, by all means, go for it.