HQ Player

[kelvinwsy]

12 hours ago, Miska said:

 

As long as you don't have the MQA firmware in iDSD BL, it has functional S/PDIF output (you can always flash the last non-MQA firmware). So you would need some suitable audio device with coaxial S/PDIF input on the HQPlayer computer.

 

Will this work?

https://www.amazon.sg/Sedna-SE-PCIE-SC-10-Standard-Brackets-Included/dp/B0777M7CRV

[Fredc]

19 hours ago, dericchan1 said:

Thanks @Miska

no issues with Pcm source to dsd512 with pipeline peq. 
 

but at nx, I could not run any Sinc Ls - L filters, i suppose my asus 3080ti 12G is not enough for that at nx?

I have similar setup to you. I think it may have something to do with ifi idsd pro is not recognised as 48k dac by Hqplayer. Funny enough, I can run not just Sinc-Ll but Sinc-L with 88.2/176.4/352.8 khz. I actually upsample some 96/192 files to 176.4/352.8 using SoX off-line just so I can play them using sinc-L

[dericchan1]

1 minute ago, Fredc said:

I have similar setup to you. I think it may have something to do with ifi idsd pro is not recognised as 48k dac by Hqplayer. Funny enough, I can run not just Sinc-Ll but Sinc-L with 88.2/176.4/352.8 khz. I actually upsample some 96/192 files to 176.4/352.8 using SoX off-line just so I can play them using sinc-L

Thanks for the insight, I wonder if i need to check off the 48k box and set upsample to 512 x 48 instead of 512 x 44.1 to run those

[kelvinwsy]

15 minutes ago, kelvinwsy said:

Will this work?

https://www.amazon.sg/Sedna-SE-PCIE-SC-10-Standard-Brackets-Included/dp/B0777M7CRV

I never did the MQA firmware update ! so spdif output shuld be good

[kelvinwsy]

with exactly the same setup, using the same album The Doobie Brothers "SOUTHBOUND"

Changing from Apple music playbk to my own 44.1khz CD file, the difference was so evident to hear

1. Overall Apple Music sounded slightly hard 

2. Soundstage more diffuse , especially extreme hard left and hard right sounds

3. Hqplayer better image focus, more tactility - pinpoint positioning of sound images. 

4. Example Track 3. featuring Sara Evans sharing vocals with Michael with Sara Evans in center for first verse and then her voice is panned to slightly left of center while Michael Mcdonald is placed just slightly right of center!

Very clear on Hqplayer with pinpoint location!

On itunes thru the Windows Audio Device (windows mixer) there is Bloat in their voices with positioning being hazy and slightly vague

 

The iFi idsd BL portable dac cannot measure up to my highly optimized Gustard U18/A26 chain.. sounds ok but wimpy compare even against itunes/apple music playbk

My point is that if Apple music playbk thru the iphone / ipad and the iFi idsd BL spdif output routed thru Hqplayer.. the resulting SQ will be v very promising

[kelvinwsy]

Superb album

[Miska]

6 hours ago, bobflood said:

I should be more specific. If HQP and say Apple Music were running on the same Mac, then Apple Music could show up under the input section as “Apple Music Loopback” and be easily selected. It would have to have automatic rate switching. The problem with all the Loopback software is that they don’t automate switching.

 

CoreAudio doesn't support sample rate slaving for input devices. Same problem on Windows WASAPI too. ASIO does support it properly - most ASIO drivers don't support it though. And for ALSA on Linux there's a workaround that helps getting around this issue, which I used for example in the RME ADI-2 driver.

 

6 hours ago, bobflood said:

I have contacted the dev of BlackHole to request this but I am sure it would be better if it was just part of HQP. Anyhow, just a late night thought.

 

I would have to develop and maintain audio driver for three operating systems. I have some experience with Windows audio device drivers and it is so totally horrible development experience that I don't want to go anywhere near any Windows drivers. I don't even understand how they managed to make it so bad, it requires special skills to make something so bad. Writing such for Linux is walk in the park. macOS a little better, but Apple has extremely good track record in breaking 3rd party drivers on new macOS releases.

 

So best option is hardware path. There are also audio interfaces that have loopback feature, but not sure if they support the needed rate reporting.

 

 

[Miska]

3 hours ago, kelvinwsy said:

Will this work?

https://www.amazon.sg/Sedna-SE-PCIE-SC-10-Standard-Brackets-Included/dp/B0777M7CRV

 

Likely at fixed rate, whether automatic rate switching works, I don't know since I have not tested. It says there's an ASIO driver for it, but then the question is whether it actually supports the feature.

 

[Miska]

3 hours ago, Fredc said:

I have similar setup to you. I think it may have something to do with ifi idsd pro is not recognised as 48k dac by Hqplayer. Funny enough, I can run not just Sinc-Ll but Sinc-L with 88.2/176.4/352.8 khz. I actually upsample some 96/192 files to 176.4/352.8 using SoX off-line just so I can play them using sinc-L

 

Did you flag the DAC as 48k DSD capable in HQPlayer? Are you on Linux/macOS or Windows?

 

[bogi]

7 hours ago, bobflood said:

I should be more specific. If HQP and say Apple Music were running on the same Mac, then Apple Music could show up under the input section as “Apple Music Loopback” and be easily selected. It would have to have automatic rate switching. The problem with all the Loopback software is that they don’t automate switching. I have contacted the dev of BlackHole to request this but I am sure it would be better if it was just part of HQP. Anyhow, just a late night thought.

EDIT: See Miska's faster reaction above.

Solution of this type exists for example in JRiver or with old foobar2000 DSD plugin (I tried that with old versions of both apps), but it is kind of opposite approach. Any audio application like Apple Music plays into some audio device. Usual approach is that you would select a destination player application virtual audio device (foobar2000, JRiver) in Apple Music. It seems this solution type is ASIO specific so Apple Music would need to support ASIO output.

 

For Windows platform ASIO bridge app of VB-Audio virtual audio cable product exists. This is used as a workaround to connect for example WASAPI output to ASIO input through virtual cable. It would allow to connect for example WASAPI output of an streaming app to ASIO input of HQPlayer. I don't know if that would support automated sample rate switching. https://shop.vb-audio.com/en/win-apps/19-hifi-cable-asio-bridge.html

 

I asked Miska to the rate switching topic about a month ago, see https://audiophilestyle.com/forums/topic/19715-hq-player/?do=findComment&comment=1234455. It could work only with ASIO (on Windows). I don't use Mac/Linux with my audio setup so I cannot say how it could work on these OS platforms.

[kelvinwsy]

40 minutes ago, Miska said:

 

Likely at fixed rate, whether automatic rate switching works, I don't know since I have not tested. It says there's an ASIO driver for it, but then the question is whether it actually supports the feature.

 

I will buy and test it n report bk

thx

[copy_of_a]

3 hours ago, Fredc said:

I have similar setup to you. I think it may have something to do with ifi idsd pro is not recognised as 48k dac by Hqplayer. Funny enough, I can run not just Sinc-Ll but Sinc-L with 88.2/176.4/352.8 khz. I actually upsample some 96/192 files to 176.4/352.8 using SoX off-line just so I can play them using sinc-L

Don't get me wrong, of course you can do whatever floats your boat - but this is really counterproductive.

You only hear the difference between the various SRC filters in (or around) the transition band of the filter; close to the Nyquist frequency. For 96kHz files the Nyquist ist at 48kHz. That's far above the audible range.

 

Attached a spectrogram that shows the difference of a random 96kHz music file (I picked Peter Gabriel "Plays Live" - Shock the Monkey) upsampled to 192kHz using poly-sinc-mqa/mp3 and Sinc-L (to be clear: the spectrogram only shows the difference between the 2 upsampled files).

I think it would be much better (and more convenient) to use the "Nx" field in HQPs prefs and select poly-sinc-mq/mp3 or poly-sinc-gauss-HiRes (or any other slow and light apodizing filter) and stay within HQP without a roundtrip through SoX offline.

The "Nx" setting is there for this very reason.

[kelvinwsy]

12 minutes ago, kelvinwsy said:

I will buy and test it n report bk

thx

No go!! User feedbk is terribke as far as ASIO driver support! 

I will just use Apple Music to explorenew music n not critical listening

Thx @Miska yr quick replies

[kelvinwsy]

2 hours ago, Miska said:

 

Likely at fixed rate, whether automatic rate switching works, I don't know since I have not tested. It says there's an ASIO driver for it, but then the question is whether it actually supports the feature.

 

If I am willing to accept the non auto rate switching shortcoming, will these virtual cables work to connect Apple Music digital output to Hqplayer input?? @Miska is there a way?

Thx 

[Miska]

10 minutes ago, kelvinwsy said:

If I am willing to accept the non auto rate switching shortcoming, will these virtual cables work to connect Apple Music digital output to Hqplayer input?? @Miska is there a way?

 

Not sure about Apple Music on Windows, but on macOS Apple Music always plays through the macOS CoreAudio rate conversion/mixer, so it's output is always fixed rate even if you play from it straight to a DAC. So it is non-issue in that sense for virtual cables.

 

To have Apple Music switch it's output rate, you need to use iPad or iPhone for playback in any case. Meaning that in order to have that to HQPlayer you need a hardware route anyway.

 

3 hours ago, bogi said:

For Windows platform ASIO bridge app of VB-Audio virtual audio cable product exists. This is used as a workaround to connect for example WASAPI output to ASIO input through virtual cable. It would allow to connect for example WASAPI output of an streaming app to ASIO input of HQPlayer. I don't know if that would support automated sample rate switching. https://shop.vb-audio.com/en/win-apps/19-hifi-cable-asio-bridge.html

 

I just tried this. I could get broken audio through WASAPI - WASAPI (with a lot of flanger effect). But I couldn't get the ASIO part working at all. And I couldn't really figure out how to use that thing in general.

 

[Account Closed]

Thanks to Jussi and all others who have contributed to this Apple Music connection to HQP thread. I had hoped for a software solution but I see that it is not possible. The developer of BlackHole confirmed that it cannot be done due to the lack of support from Apple/Core Audio for the same reasons that Jussi has stated.

 

I am not willing to go the hardware route right now so I will stick with Roon/Qobuz/Tidal until there is a better alternative. At least it works reliably.

 

Again, thanks to all.

 

Bob

[Miska]

5 minutes ago, bobflood said:

I am not willing to go the hardware route right now so I will stick with Roon/Qobuz/Tidal until there is a better alternative. At least it works reliably.

 

Of course Qobuz (and HRA Streaming) works natively in HQPlayer without need for any external software or hardware...

 

[Account Closed]

8 minutes ago, Miska said:

 

Of course Qobuz (and HRA Streaming) works natively in HQPlayer without need for any external software or hardware...

 

I use Qobuz on the Client all the time.

 

Thanks and I hope you can get more services for the Client in the future.

[bogi]

2 hours ago, Miska said:

I just tried this. I could get broken audio through WASAPI - WASAPI (with a lot of flanger effect). But I couldn't get the ASIO part working at all. And I couldn't really figure out how to use that thing in general.

In the past I was able to make it working to redirect all Windows sounds to foo_dsd_asio. One could of course connect virtual cable to  HQPlayer ASIO input instead of ASIO proxy foo_dsd_asio. It is described here https://audiophilestyle.com/forums/topic/28680-bit-perfect-windows-audio-for-tidal-etc/#comment-570215

It worked fine. In the thread I misunderstood ASIO bridge input and output meaning so we did not understand the meaning of some settings which were otherwise correct and it worked as it should. Then I pointed to my mistake in the last post.

[bogi]

6 hours ago, copy_of_a said:

Attached a spectrogram that shows the difference of a random 96kHz music file (I picked Peter Gabriel "Plays Live" - Shock the Monkey) upsampled to 192kHz using poly-sinc-mqa/mp3 and Sinc-L

I trust you that the spectrogram is correct but for me poly-sinc-mqa/mp3 and Sinc-L sound differently. So I can understand Fredc's wish to make it working with 48k based input content. And I agree with your suggestion to avoid SoX in audio path when HQPlayer is used.

@Fredc
To convert 48k PCM input to DSD output
If your DAC supports 48k DSD output:
1) to set check box [x] 48k DSD; 2) set max. DSD output rate to 48k x something
If your DAC does not support 48k based DSD then you could try:
1) uncheck [ ] 48k DSD; 2) uncheck [ ] Adaptive output rate; 3) set max. DSD output rate to 44.1k x something
The second one is more CPU intensive and will not work with some filters (those which don't contain 'Any' in 'Ratio' column in HQPlayer manual chap. 4.2). So that would not work with sinc-L or sinc-LI you wished. It would work with poly-sinc* filters. If you like sinc-LI maybe you could try poly-sinc-lp[-2s] as an alternative.

[copy_of_a]

6 minutes ago, bogi said:

I trust you that the spectrogram is correct but for me poly-sinc-mqa/mp3 and Sinc-L sound differently.

I agree! … as long as we talk about 44.1k or 48k source files. But Fredc was talking about 96k and 192k sources. With these high rates you certainly can‘t distinguish the two.

[LoryWiv]

3 hours ago, Miska said:

 

Of course Qobuz (and HRA Streaming) works natively in HQPlayer without need for any external software or hardware...

 

QoBuz natively in HQPlayer is phenomenal!!!

[Fredc]

1 hour ago, copy_of_a said:

I agree! … as long as we talk about 44.1k or 48k source files. But Fredc was talking about 96k and 192k sources. With these high rates you certainly can‘t distinguish the two.

I am using SoX as a format convertor (96k to 176.4K and 192k to 352.8K) not looking at any upsampling improvement. In fact I am hoping the resulting 176.4K track is indisquishable from the 96K track. As I am converting this offline, this is not in the playback chain. The question is when you are uypsampling to DSD512 with ASDM7ECV2 with a high frequency rate source, does filter makes any difference.

[Miska]

9 minutes ago, Fredc said:

I am using SoX as a format convertor (96k to 176.4K and 192k to 352.8K) not looking at any upsampling improvement. In fact I am hoping the resulting 176.4K track is indisquishable from the 96K track. As I am converting this offline, this is not in the playback chain. The question is when you are uypsampling to DSD512 with ASDM7ECV2 with a high frequency rate source, does filter makes any difference.

 

Just remember that the first step of upsampling is most critical. So 96k to 176.4k conversion largely defines how it is going to sound. Rest matters much less.

 

You can as well do something much lighter than sinc-L from there on.

 

[Fredc]

11 hours ago, Miska said:

 

Did you flag the DAC as 48k DSD capable in HQPlayer? Are you on Linux/macOS or Windows?

 

Flagging the ifi pro idsd as 48k dac do not work for me (win11 pro). There is sound coming out but for 96k tracks, it sound terrible.