*This* Should Set the Cat Amongst the Pigeons

[Superdad]

Bill sent 5 renamed copies of version 1.5.10

 

What was the point of that?! Was he just messing with you?

 

Okay, per my prior post offering to take a test, throwing in two of the same version would be fine with me. So 4 different versions and one that is the same as one of the others.

[sandyk]

Alex C

You should be doing these tests directly at your own home under non sighted conditions, with perhaps a respected C.A. member there to ensure that everything is above board. Did you read my PM ?

 

Kind Regards

Alex K.

[Daudio]

... Less than 7% file size reduction. Not exactly much of a difference in download time.

 

Barry,

 

I think that CRC error detection might be more of a factor then download time. I also wonder if a binary ZIP file might get different treatment in the encoding of the pipes it flows through over the iNet ?

[Jud]

Bill sent 5 renamed copies of version 1.5.10

 

What was the point of that?! Was he just messing with you?

 

Okay, per my prior post offering to take a test, throwing in two of the same version would be fine with me. So 4 different versions and one that is the same as one of the others.

 

Hi Alex. No, it was per my express instructions that it could be any combo of 10 and 12, including 5 of one and 0 of the other.

 

Let me toss out another thought to turn this upside down again: How then to account for the consistent independent reports from me and Alex of the sound of new versions of A+ over a 2 or 3 month period? After all, they had numbers, but we weren't told how they sounded. And certainly neither of us found anything like uniform improvement. Could it be something as simple as test anxiety? Don't know.

 

Alex, I'll be happy to send you de-identified versions in the next few days. We can work out the protocol.

[thesurfingalien]

Jud

It has been my experience, that I have stated many times previously, and has been verified by many others, that Internet transmission, even copying of files to other locations and computers causes quite a bit of degradation. What makes you so sure that this hasn't happened here ? I have steadfastly refused to do any tests of comparison files involving copying/moving of the files using Internet transmission. That's exactly why I keep suggesting that if I do so it will need to be using a USB memory stick sent to a neutral participant, where the files are renamed MANUALLY, with any previous properties information removed without disturbing or copying the contents of the files, then sent back to me.

Dennis simply refuses to accept that such degradation is possible, just as he refuses to accept that 16/44.1 is all that is needed for the highest quality reproduction of digital audio is utter BS.

Why is he ignoring the example .wav files of 16/44.1, 24/44.1, and 24/48 that JonP provided for comparison purposes in another recent thread , just like the rest of the highly vocal sceptics?

Do your previous comparisons again under non sighted listening conditions as you did originally, and I would be willing to bet that your conclusions would be the same as those originally. I would also suggest that Alex C does the same again, and you both compare notes again as previously. Even if your own confidence has been shattered, I doubt very much that Alex C. will be fazed in the slightest, and is still well able to demonstrate under non sighted conditions to others that he IS correct.

Note also that Cookie Marenco provides her files as UNCOMPRESSED Zips in an attempt to reduce this degradation that the resident sceptics insist isn't possible.

 

Regards

Alex

 

Hi Alex,

 

You ARE aware that they are talking about sending around program-files, not music-files, right???

 

Kind regards,

Peter

[sandyk]

Peter

No that wasn't made clear, at least to me. However, all this copying and renaming could still be causing some minor unexplained differences or the inclusion of additional files may also be problematical due to stress.

TBH, I think this inclusion is deliberately done to make the tests much more stressful than a simple yes/ no type test. Have YOU ever had to undergo numerous comparisons, where say 20 x 2 original lots of files were renamed, and then another 2 lots of the same files but different renaming again were involved ? I have, and it's damn stressful. I find it interesting that Jud appeared to have heard differences but got them arse about.

Alex

[mayhem13]

Peter

No that wasn't made clear, at least to me. However, all this copying and renaming could still be causing some minor unexplained differences differences or the inclusion of additional files may also be problematical

TBH, I think this inclusion is deliberately done to make the tests much more stressful than a simple yes/ no type test. Have YOU ever had to undergo numerous comparisons, where say 20 x 2 original lots of files were renamed, and then another 2 lots of the same files but different renaming again were involved ? I have, and it's damn stressful. I find it interesting that Jud appeared to have heard differences but got them arse about.

Alex

 

So are you saying stress effects hearing?......or is it a bias to be considered?.......and if so, by whom, when or under what conditions. No closing this box now Alex. Lol

 

Another term for us objective propellerheads to throw at you.....anxiety bias.....I love it!

 

Ps.....I'm anxious for winter to be over.....sitting here watching another snowstorm develop.......aweful!

[sandyk]

What, there's no audiophile zip utility? Now there's an opportunity for some enterprising programmer.

 

ZipCreator.jar is a very simple program for Windows that provides this option. Perhaps the K.I.S.S. principle also works for software too ?.

[sandyk]

So are you saying stress effects hearing?......

 

I didn't think even you would be so stupid not to realise that stress can markedly increase blood pressure, thus affecting hearing. Ask any qualified medical practitioner.

 

Have you checked YOUR blood pressure recently ?

[thesurfingalien]

What, there's no audiophile zip utility? Now there's an opportunity for some enterprising programmer.

 

FLAC, perhaps

[mayhem13]

I didn't think even you would be so stupid not to realise that stress can markedly increase blood pressure, thus affecting hearing. Ask any qualified medical practitioner.

 

Have you checked YOUR blood pressure recently ?

 

Why so hostile?.......clearly I was jesting with you!

 

Just got done shoveling some more snow so yes.....my blood pressure is up right now. Maybe a good time to go do some comparison listening? lol.

[Jud]

Hi mayhem. I do wonder (and have previously in various forum threads) whether a setup where you can get the answers right or wrong (like the one I asked Dennis and then Bill to do for me) affects the answers, versus just having fun listening and commenting, as Alex and I did when we were independently hearing the same variations in Audirvana versions over a 2 or 3 month test period.

 

On the other hand, I did get very slight differences right on Dennis's 4 files, though that was a single try with knowledge of what the correct totals should look like.

 

By the way, please note the Audirvana versions Alex C and I heard the same variations in, Dennis's files, and the Audirvana versions Bill Scott sent me, were all downloaded (though Damien sends Audirvana versions as .dmg files).

 

One thing I forgot to check, though I think the answer should be yes, is whether the downloaded apps were using the same filter/preference settings as those I already had for 1.5.10 and 1.5.12. That would be kind of a big "Whoopsie!" if they were different.

[mayhem13]

Don't think there's conclusive evidence either way as there's quite a few variables in both scenarios.

 

And I do believe in negative bias. We as humans tend to ignore it though, a positive outcome is always preferred. Who expects to pay $50 for a bad steak and still goes to the steakhouse?

 

We should get together some time here in a thread and discuss acceptable test models and protocol for some file sharing and Comparative listening. Many here were interested in the correlation you and Superdad arrived at.......and not to tear it down, but to explore it further. A shared USB stick that gets mailed around would be a good place to start.

[Jud]

Yep, nice idea.