Some Questions re Weiss DAC2

[higo]

Dear all,

 

I am a computer audio enthusiast in Hong Kong. After doing a bit of homework in this website, I bought the latest version of the Weiss DAC2 in Hong Kong recently. Generally, I am pretty satisfied with the performance of this little wonder. However, there are still a number of small questions remain unresolved.

 

I am using Vista 64-bit Home Premium in my PC. First of all, I have a confession to make. Vista sucks but it comes with the computer (HP TouchSmart IQ508) and if cannot downgrade the system to Windows XP as there are no corresponding drivers. My problem is that the drivers that come with DAC2 are not compatible with my 64-bit Vista PC. In particular:-

 

1. When using iTune 8, a song can only be played for about nine seconds and then the iTune will freeze.

 

2. There is a serious "POP" sound generated when switching between different sampling rates. I am not sure whether this is harmful to the speaker in the long run. There is also a very minor tick sound (every 10 seconds) which can be heard if you place your ear close to the speakers.

 

3. Vista unwittingly takes control of the sampling rate. It means that when the Weiss is selected as the default sound device and the sampling rate is set at 44.1kHz at the midi setting panel of Vista, I cannot override the sampling setting on the Weiss Firewire Panel.

 

For example, if I try to change the sampling rate on the Weiss panel to 192kHz, the DAC2 will automatically switch back to the Vista defaulted 44.1kHz when a song is played. At the same time, as discussed in paragraph 2 above, this automatic switching generates a loud "POP" sound when the pre-selected 192 is forcibly changed back to the Vista defaulted 44.1.

 

Currently, the DAC2 only manages to work with foobar at "Safemode 3" with "Buffer 3072". iTune 8 is totally out of the question at the moment. I believe the main culprit is the 64-bit Vista not the DAC2.

 

In this connection, do you know if there is a link for the corresponding Weiss driver for the 64 bit Vista?

 

 

 

[markr]

As I said in your other thread, I too believe that your issue is Vista 64 driver related.

 

Have you contacted Weiss about this yet? Daniel Weiss has a great reputation for the service he provides after the sale. That would be the first place I would try.

 

Chances are, he has already seen this or will soon see it, but using this link might be quicker: http://www.weiss.ch/form.html - You could reference him to this page to simplify what you need to say about your issue. Send him this link with an explanation - he does frequently visit this forum... : http://www.computeraudiophile.com/content/Some-Questions-re-Weiss-DAC2

 

hoping for a quick resolution for you -

 

markr

 

 

 

[higo]

Dear MarkR,

 

Thanks for your message.

 

As suggested, I visited the website of Weiss and sent Daniel the link regarding my questions. I will share his answers to other members of this site once when they are available.

 

[markr]

..... You're BATMAN!

 

[blueixus]

I had some problems with Vista using a Lynx L22 which supports 192kHz 24Bit.

 

I am sure you have tried this, it took me ages to work it out, but in the advanced settings for each Audio Playback Device (control panel/manage audio devices/playback) has a dropdown sample rate box that allows 192kHz - I leave my PC set at this setting and that sets the Lynx. It will play sample rates below that without needing any changes.

 

Generally I have found Vista much better for Audio than XP (It sucks for almost everything else).

 

Best of luck, I am sure Weiss will sort you out

 

Regards

 

 

 

[Opusover21]

Hi as a Weiss DAC2 owner this sounds all wrong to me

 

1. When using iTune 8, a song can only be played for about nine seconds and then the iTune will freeze.

 

I would look at media monkey etc

 

2. There is a serious "POP" sound generated when switching between different sampling rates. I am not sure whether this is harmful to the speaker in the long run. There is also a very minor tick sound (every 10 seconds) which can be heard if you place your ear close to the speakers.

 

3. Vista unwittingly takes control of the sampling rate. It means that when the Weiss is selected as the default sound device and the sampling rate is set at 44.1kHz at the midi setting panel of Vista, I cannot override the sampling setting on the Weiss Firewire Panel.

 

For example, if I try to change the sampling rate on the Weiss panel to 192kHz, the DAC2 will automatically switch back to the Vista defaulted 44.1kHz when a song is played. At the same time, as discussed in paragraph 2 above, this automatic switching generates a loud "POP" sound when the pre-selected 192 is forcibly changed back to the Vista defaulted 44.1.

 

2/3 are interlinked. The DAC2 control panel and midi settings for example should be sycronized...if you change one the other will move accordingly....if not you have something wrong with the driver/output selected. On the mac its possible to select the weiss the default output, system output to the say "weiss firewire" but you also need to select the weiss firewire in the "properties for" drop down. This sounds messy I know but unless you select the weiss in all the options they wont be syncronized and work independently...whatever the DAC says via the lights on the panel is the sample rate being played so take some comfort that thats correct.

 

Currently, the DAC2 only manages to work with foobar at "Safemode 3" with "Buffer 3072". iTune 8 is totally out of the question at the moment. I believe the main culprit is the 64-bit Vista not the DAC2.

 

Again try media monkey but I think you need to look at the drivers/output devices selected....

 

In this connection, do you know if there is a link for the corresponding Weiss driver for the 64 bit Vista?

 

 

I know you dont want to hear this but you really need XP on that machine or better still invest in a used mac mini...you can still control it via the pc if you wish via VPN or as i do ..logmein...which also frees your pc away from your listening area...or better still the use the touch remote app

 

[higo]

Dear all,

 

Thanks very much for your valuable input.

 

Weiss is quick in sending me a link for the new Vista driver last week. I was away last weekend and I will try to the driver tonight. I will report to you if the new driver works.

 

 

 

[kentpoon]

Hello higo,

 

Hopefully the latest driver will solve all your problems. Otherwise you always have my mobile number / email to assist. Have you switch on the DPC latency checker?

 

Bests,

Kent

 

 

 

 

[higo]

Good news and bad news....

 

I tried the latest driver from Weiss (which is supposed to work with the 64-bit Vista). Unfortunately, I regret to inform you that it is not working in my computer. The symptoms mentioned in my original post still persist. This is the bad news.

 

The good news is that the original driver that came with the DAC2 does work….but only with Windows XP. I installed the original driver in an XP-based laptop borrowed from a friend and all the problems went away (except for the rather large “pop” sound when switching sampling rate). I am now one happy DAC2 user now.

 

As for the 64-bit Vista, it will be nice for Weiss to sort out this problem soon.

 

 

[PeterSt]

3. Vista unwittingly takes control of the sampling rate. It means that when the Weiss is selected as the default sound device and the sampling rate is set at 44.1kHz at the midi setting panel of Vista, I cannot override the sampling setting on the Weiss Firewire Panel.

 

Hi,

 

I don't think this is wrong at all. This, without other context than your quote, is just Vista behavior.

Please trey this : Download the latest version of XXHighEnd, use Engine#3 in there, and let us know what happens. I can guarantee different results at least.

No need to try Vista settings if it again doesn't work; they don't matter. But do set "DAC Is" to 24/192 in the Settings Area and don't forget to slide up the volume.

 

HTH and good luck,

Peter

 

[kentpoon]

Daniel corrected me that the latency checker does not work in Vista.

 

[higo]

Dear all,

 

Thanks for all your comment. I am more than happy to stick with XP-based computer and use foobar for the time being.

 

My only question is whether I need to install ASIO for foobar. Some said that it is no necessary as the signal is sent directly to DAC so that kMixer does not have a role. However, someone indicated that ASIO is a must for XP-based system. Which one is correct?

 

 

 

[PeterSt]

You will need ASIO, or Kernel Streaming. Only those are "bit perfect" (there are some more options, but never mind; it only makes it more complicated).

 

[Codifus]

then why not 32 bit Vista? If I were to build a windows based music server I would definitely lean towards Vista. Sound is the one thing the MS absolutely got right in Vista, and there are sooo many sound gottchas in XP.

 

64 bit Vista must be so lonely that its no wonder you had so much trouble.

 

CD

 

[higo]

Dear PeterSt and other members of CA,

 

Thanks very much for your suggestion and I have successfully installed ASIO and Kernel Streaming. As indicated by Kent Poon (the representative of Weiss in Hong Kong and the ), one of the advantages of installing ASIO is that it will enable DAC2 to automatically switch the sampling rate to match the native sampling rate of a song.

 

For example, if you are playing a CD ripped song (at the sampling rate of 44.1kHz) followed by a HD song (at the sampling rate of 192kHz), the DAC2 will automatically switch from 44.1 to 192kHz after the first song is finished.

 

However, life is far from perfect and there is still one big problem for in my case. When the automatic switching mentioned above is activated, there is a rather loud and annoying pop sound generated. The pop sound is clearly audible and I am thinking this will be harmful to the speakers in the long run. I rather suspect that this problem is caused by my integrated amplifier (Gryphon 2200); not by the little DAC2. My million dollar question is whether there is a way to eliminate/reduce this pop sound, be it software or hardware.

 

Many thanks in advance.

 

 

[PeterSt]

Although I don't want to blame the DAC, I think it causes it anyway.

But then I don't think DACs were created for the purpose of ad-hoc changing sample rates and all.

 

It can be caused by players just the same. In order to sort that out you'd have to try a few.

I know my own player incurred for it before, but I always blamed the soundcard. In the end it is a combination, and some explicit treatment to avoid it. But I sure won't guarantee that XXHighEnd won't show the pops or larger TICKs in all cases. But I'd like to think not. Not here at my place anymore anyway ...

 

Peter

 

[weiss2496]

Higo, is the pop sound equal loud in both channels?

Can you try with a different amplifier?

 

Does the level of the pop relative to the music level change when you change the output level of the DAC2 with the rotary switch at the back?

 

Regards,

Daniel

 

 

[PeterSt]

Daniel, may it help you :

 

When I, in the software, just change some blockalign and stuff for the waveformatex, but let the stream continue without stopping the DAC first, you'll most probably have "problems" with relocking. The DAC may go into temporary auto mute though, and you know best if it does or not.

 

But then the software shouldn't work like that.

 

Another problem (not applicable in this particualr case) is that people may have set the buffer size too small for the upcoming higher rate stream. Not much to do about that, but the windows won't blow from such a shortcoming (user error in fact).

The "pop" we're talking about in the case here will be at full DAC output, because the byte alignment is temporarily wrong. A small heart attach goes along with it because of the super high transient occurring.

 

Peter

 

[ted_b]

(and will soon buy) did not "pop" when changing resolutions, whether via FW or AES/EBU. just my $.02

 

Ted

 

[nebennett]

My DAC2 "pops" with each sample rate change. It's audible but not that bad.

 

[higo]

Just want to clarify that the Pop sound is generated through the speakers. I am NOT talking about the tiny tick sound generated by (possibly the relay of) the DAC2 internally.

 

[higo]

Just want to clarify that the Pop sound is generated through the speakers. I am NOT talking about the tiny tick sound generated by (possibly the relay of) the DAC2 internally.

 

[nebennett]

It clearly comes from the speakers

 

[hifitubes]

If you have some 24/96 material maybe just try J. River Media Center (or free J. River Media Jukebox) with ASIO and use 24/96 output settings. It's high quality upsampling (for anything less than 96) and at least you won't be getting those pops. That's unacceptable on a hi-fi, no matter what is actually causing it.

 

hifitubes

 

[rancew]

Any further news or developments on this problem?

 

I am using a DAC2 and have recently changed my configuration such that the DAC2 is downstream from my preamp and feeding my (monobloc) amps directly. (I did this as I am using a TacT 2.2XP preamp - which performs DSP room correction in the digital domain - and wanted to avoid the extra AD-->DA conversion that must take place when sending an analog signal from the DAC to the TacT; the sound is clearly better this way.)

 

Now that things are set up this way my system also gives a rather loud "pop" (actually two pops in succession) from the speakers when changing sampling rates. I have the latest drivers for the DAC2 installed. I've contacted Daniel Weiss about this, but thus far he hasn't come up with an explanation or solution.

 

Anyone else experiencing this? Any ideas?