Help with my B&W P5s

[bleedink]

Hey all. Have an interesting problem. I've had these headphones for almost 2 years and had frequent cable problems resulting in my not being able to use them almost half the time I'd owned them. B&W wouldn't fix the underlying issue. Well eventually what happened was this: it is a single cable design going into one speaker and across the head piece to the other. This wire is buried under some sheep skin leather and the design seems to prohibit casual fixing. So the wire between speakers is what has shorted. I confirmed this by replacing the cable to the initial speaker. When I move the piece over my head where the wire is hidden I can get some sound from the opposite speaker. The speaker where the cable goes in works fine. If I jiggle enough the other speaker indeed works. Not for long. Question is this. I live in San Francisco and googled headphone repair and came up with nothing. Anyone in the Bay area or elsewhere know whether this is an easy operation (replacing cable that goes btw. speakers) or if it is even possible to fix? They are 300 dollar cans that I'd hoped would last a bit longer. I've hardly used them out of the house. Anyway up to 100 bucks seems like a reasonable expenditure to keep them going as they are pretty good for my set up. Does anyone know of a place to have them fixed in this area or someplace else? Is it worth it? Would I spend over 100 bucks?

[dalethorn]

Did you fill out the contact form and request a repair formally? Then did you talk to the local distributor by phone and tell them to replace the headband cable? I'm curious what the roadblock was.

[bleedink]

Mainly that they wanted 150 bucks just to look at them and I am on a limited income so having that kind of cash tied up isn't easy. However if an independent source were able to do it a bit cheaper I would be solving two problems at once. They are out of warranty at this point but they are aware of the umpteen cables they sent me so I am gathering the 150 is a 'break' and not the norm. I was hoping it might not be a big deal but perhaps it warrants the dealer route.

[dalethorn]

For $150 on a $300 headphone, B&W isn't concerned about retaining customers, that's for sure. I was surprised at the hassle we had to go through here when we needed replacement cables for our P5 (both cables died after just one year).

 

I know there are plenty of guys who hang out on the headfi forum who do repairs and mods, so if you poke around there, you may find someone in the Western U.S. who can fix you up for a reasonable price, although (!) you still have to come up with a repair part unless the modder guy happens to have something sitting around that will fix it. You don't want that headache BTW, just to get another unreliable cable.

[bleedink]

I sorta got that impression after having to beg about 20 times (literally) for cables that would fail after not having taken them out of my home after a week or two. Then shipping from the UK typically takes 2 weeks to a month. So if you add up all those times I basically have had my headphones in the mail more often than I've worn them. I pointed all this out to customer service several times who then offered me a 'deal' for the 150. I think 150 should include the speaker as well not just some darn cable repair feel me? This on top of the 3500 bucks I spent on a 5.0 set of 68-'s. I expected a bit more customer relations with that kind of expenditure in this economy. One of the tweeters was damaged following the advice of the man who sold them to me (Use duct tape...NOT!). That also cost me. You seriously would think however due to the stellar rise of companies like Apple based partly at least on stellar customer service that might have reverberated through every industry. So Head-fi and hang out? Is headphone repair that weird (given the number of 300 plus phones these days)? I was sort of hoping maybe I'd been looking in the wrong places and someone here would have a magical answer. See, that magical apple-think at work! lol...

[dalethorn]

This experience and my own does tend to confirm I'm on the right track in some respects. Someone asked me yesterday about how I use EQ with so many different headphones, and wouldn't it be better to find something that sounds good out of the box? So I basically said, being more flexible on sound, I can pick from a better grade of hardware and tweak ftom there if need be.

[bleedink]

For such great gear it's sort of astounding to me. Maybe they aren't looking to retain the entry level customer (other companies should be so lucky to be that high on the low end!) as you surmised. Well, if anyone comes up with something a bit more concrete or if anyone has had experience in this area please PM me with the details. Reminds me of a certain remote control company that competes with logitech. Their remote stopped working and when I sent it back they demanded 150 bucks to repair it! It cost just slightly more. The thing was it was just the display that stopped working. When it was returned, without having received my cash, the entire unit no longer functioned and was missing a button that wasn't in the box. Since that time I have vowed to never ever buy anything from a company that places such a poor emphasis on customer service. They know they have you btw a rock and a hard place so they can basically charge away. What they fail to realize is that a brand gains a lot of momentum and repeat customers with great customer service. I don't agree with all the things Apple does, but I wouldn't hesitate to buy something from them again. Why? Never had a problem with a reasonable repair. Product broke? You get a new one. Yes they have went downhill a bit in that dept. the last few years but I can think of no other company that has their reputation.

[dalethorn]

Apple is most unusual. Not only have all of my Apple computers (5) worked flawlessly, but the 3 ipads, 6 iphones, 30 or so ipods etc. have done the same. What's even more spectacular is the batteries on those ipods and iphones have taken 2 or more charges *per day* each for two years on average (i.e. more than 1000 charges each) without one battery going bad.

 

You don't get that kind of battery performance by luck, or by manufacturing a lot of junk and then just rejecting the obvious bad samples. Now compare that with Sony, Hewlett-Packard, Motorola, Acer, HTC, and possibly a few others I've experienced as having, not just an occasional bad battery, but *consistently* bad batteries.

 

And your problem isn't just bad luck or the odd manufacturer who makes a bad product or shirks their repair servicing. Your problem is your fellow consumer who either doesn't notice these shoddy practices, or doesn't care, and therefore allows the practices to continue.

[bleedink]

Well in defense of some of these folks we are in a bad economy and it is really easy right now to be penny wise and pound foolish--people don't have the extra cash to really be able to make a wise choice not economically based. I was lucky in that I still had a bit of cash when everything came to a halt a few years back and was able to get most of what I needed/wanted in a rig. Had money been no object I'd have made some choices a bit different. My point I guess is that I no longer have the kind of freedom I had a few years back and my thinking at that time was to find very good established companies whose products were more likely to enter into decades of use rather than years. Thus B&W seemed like an excellent choice. If I had to put something together on my current budget (having suffered a disability in the last few years) I'd have to make the same choices many of these consumers made--I certainly wouldn't have a MBP on my desk that I currently do. I'd have HAD to make the penny wise pound foolish choices. Not sure my point to this except as a counter to those who buy shoddy equipment--sometimes they just don't have the economic power to do differently. Look how long it took a good tablet to hit the magic 200 mark (nexus 7). If you were more tablet crazy you'd have spent twice as much on an iPad with worse specs a year back. Now you can buy crazy power with 200 bucks and a build quality to match. However Apple is on the iPad 4s now? Until recently there wasn't much choice and I have a feeling this happens in other categories of consumer electronics as well. Done ranting! Thanks. BTW still looking for headphone repair in the bay area so don't stop thinking about that!!!! ;-)

[dalethorn]

Reviews take care of most of those problems, but people who are more lazy than penny-foolish don't read them, preferring to spend their time watching American Idol or whatever instead. And thus, I don't see a valid defense. You don't even have to subscribe to Consumer Reports and waste $20 on that - just dial up google and it's free. But they have higher priorities, i.e. entertainment over education. And it isn't that audiophiles are so rare because they're weird - it's because it's rare for people to put education and enlightenment over entertainment as a priority.

[DigiPete]

Sorry for your troubles, bleedink!

 

Haven't you got 2 years warranty on those types of products?

 

In case you go for another phone.

I went with the good old Sennheizer HD25-1 II rather than the P5.

I know its not sexy, but sound is better and build quality is sterling.

Additionally all parts are available as spares - and I do mean all: Sennheiser HD25-1 II PRO Headphone Spares

The HD25-1 II uses the same type of wirering, but it probably won't even be close to fitting.

 

The best for low bucks are definitely Apples EarPods combined with the free Dirac Lite EQ app.

 

Anyway - best of luck

[bleedink]

They had a two year warranty that was spent resolving the revolving cable spectacle (which I believe has something to do with this as that was the first clue usually--one speaker would go dead). So while trying to get it resolved with umpteen gazillion calls and cable returns blah blah two years has came and went. They acknowledged the problem with the old cables apparently in the newer models while not really doing anything to fix the problems the old cables caused. Again they spent more time waiting for parts than I ever wore them. I doubt very very seriously they have over 100 hours on them. Anyway, lesson learned right? Just because they make awesome speakers...

[PewterTA]

You might want to go over to htguide.com/forum and post in the B&W thread, there's a few of the upper managers in the B&W service department that browse the thread... they might end up taking up your case if you post there. And even if not... there's a few there that know who to have you talk to at B&W to maybe get a better result. Hey, can't hurt you know.

 

I'd fix them for you, but I've never taken one those apart and I'd hate to damage them anymore than they are not knowing exactly what I was doing.... but I'm all for opening up things and fixing them.

[Audio_ELF]

@bleedink

 

May be worth contacting B&W here in the UK direct.

 

Explain the situation and detail all the communications you've had with B&W in USA.

 

Reading Warranty - Bowers & Wilkins | B&W Speakers it looks like you should have 2 year warranty anyway...

This warranty is valid from the date of purchase for a period of five years for passive loudspeakers and two years for powered loudspeakers, electronics and headphones, except that exclusions apply in certain countries in line with national law. Please consult the Bowers & Wilkins distributor in your country for detailed information. (Sorry I missed you said they are just out of the 2 year warranty)

 

Its always worth making a point that you are discussing this issue in various forums; and as Peter comments the htguide forum (you have to be a registered member to see the B&W forum) may be worthwhile.

 

Eloise

[PhilW]

B&W leads are normally pretty good and last some time to be honest. There is another lead by Black Sheep that is maybe worth looking at that might last a bit longer? It would be worthwhile contact B&W in the UK and seeing what that say like Eloise suggests though.

 

B&W P5 Headphones | Black Sheep Cable - Braided 1.2m £14.95

[bleedink]

Thanks unfortunately that isn't the cable affected. The cable you are talking about goes into one side of the headphones and is replaceable. It's a trivial thing to replace and is made for that. My problem starts where that cord ends. In other words it is the cord between the two speakers not the lead in cord. While the lead can and will affect whether sound comes out both speakers, in this case the cable was replaced and confirmed to work. I can get the other speaker to work by doing some yoga with the headband (where the cable btw the speakers is located) but this part is covered in sheep skin leather and isn't easy to take apart and as someone else surmised the speaker enclosures don't lend themselves to easy repair. Heck I could probably splice the wire together if I could figure out how to get the damn things apart. There seems to be generous applications of glue and other tamper unfriendly parts. My fear in doing the repair myself lies with those unfriendly parts. Also did contact BW again (this time in the UK) but I am still (it's been a while since this post went up...) waiting for a reply. The last reply was the one offering to look at them for 150 deposit. They didn't really indicate they'd be fixing them either. They seriously just indicated they'd evaluate them for repair for 150 bucks. I keep waiting for a reply but this is what's happened for two years which is why I have like almost zero use on them! It takes them forever to respond, and even longer to get you another shoddy replacement part (that worked until it didn't--and at that point the warranty was bye bye). So that's still where I am at...waiting for BW again. Thanks for pointing out the cables. Unfortunately I have them and they are in good shape though for how long of course remains to be seen. However that seemed to be the culprit at one time--but it was likely there was a short going on the entire time that the new cable seemed to solve (again til it didn't)--they were already stingy on the replacement cables but they never ever suggested that something else might be going on, nor did they offer to fix it. Ill tell ya I feel like the biggest fool investing something like a decent used car into a set of speakers and phones (4k isn't chump change these days) when they could care less about supporting a freakin 50 cent cable.

[bleedink]

Actually the build quality wasn't up to the quality of the B&Ws. And the product was misrepresented at the expo. I was able to get a 50 dollar check from Scosche and I believe that makes them an excellent value proposition. They do sound fairly wonderful. I actually prefer their sonic characteristics to the P5 but still have them for the day I figure out how to get that cable fixed. One note, there is a crimp in the part of the cable visible on the side that doesn't work (a portion of the cable from ear to ear is visible) and because of the insulation around the wires I can't really tell if they are able to be put together again if that crimp is where the signal gets cut off. Anyway I actually think these were a steal (by a brand I'd never heard of auditioned over an iPad with no external amp) at 100. Not so much at what they originally asked as again the build quality is the thing that gives them some knocks. Sonically they are actually very good and transparent in the sense that a bad recording stays that way and neither the bass or treble seem overly exaggerated which is what I like. Nothing seemed too squished sonically and I heard no distortions at loud volumes for things like cymbals, horns, drums and the like. While they seem more suited to modern music they had no problem with analog recordings and would benefit from a nice headphone amp. I wouldn't say they were a steal at the original price after a month. Again this is from the build quality. After a month of break in they exceeded my expectations.

[wdw]

This thread is very interesting to me as my P5's are in a UPS truck on the way back home at this moment after experiencing the same failure you describe....the wire from the left side audio feed, running over the headband loop, to the right channel was failing. I also have a secondary issue where the two plastic surfaces, at the surface on the speaker side and the inner side of the detachable ear foam pieces were starting to react with each other and the surfaces were sticky and soft. I asked the B&W service agent if this issue had been identified in the past and he admitted that it had. I'm a few months out of warranty so had to authorize a payment of up to $150 with the amount determined at the time of service. The full amount would be charged if full replacement with new stock was in order.

Sounds like there are many owners with similar problems.

WDW

[dalethorn]

$150 to repair a $300 headphone (that's really worth $200)? Time to buy Sennheiser or Beyerdynamic. Or as my wife did *after* getting her P5 fixed - she switched to the ATH ESW9a.

[bleedink]

SERIOUSLY?!?!?!?!?!?!??!?!!??!!?!??!!!?? And they wrangled you into the same 150 dollar fee (of which all or none may be used--they are very careful not to suggest a price) for the same problem which has been identified before among other people who spent close to 300 bucks on these? Unbelievable. I also purchased approximately 3500 dollars in speakers about 4 months before I bought the P5's based on the great quality I'd gotten from them. I am very interested in how much they end up charging you. I've seen a few services on the internet that will rewire them at around 90 bucks. As I am out of warranty anyway that may be the way to go. I hate to just write these things off but another 150 bucks makes these 450 dollar headphones, which while very good (and certainly not the best), aren't worth anywhere near the 400 dollar mark. Please let us know how this turned out for you. Again rather than spend ANOTHER 150 bucks on the same headphones I went with another company I'd never heard of and ended up with headphones with a lesser build quality but very close in the SQ dept. I'm glad I haggled with them on price as they really aren't worth 150 based on the build but for 100 bucks hey they are the best bargain I've come across. Also they cheerfully offered to replace them after the 50 dollar check because they sometimes don't register the insertion of the removable cord. OTOH I did find a forum on head-fi.org in which they modified the P5's to have removable cords from EACH speaker. Don't ask how hard that might be, it looked pretty involved and not many instructions to do it yr self. I've looked all over for p5 mods, repair, hacks, wire replacement but they all to a one pertain to the external cord. I did find quite a few folks having the same problem we are having but they weren't coming up with a good solution. I'd be interested in how much yr getting gouged for these to be in working order. You know they had quite a few issues with these including the external cord which they eventually changed because it was terrible. They now include the cable that comes with the P3. Seems like we were the beta experimenters for their headphone line.

[bleedink]

$150 to repair a $300 headphone (that's really worth $200)? Time to buy Sennheiser or Beyerdynamic. Or as my wife did *after* getting her P5 fixed - she switched to the ATH ESW9a.

 

I thought about it. Then thought again. I'd rather spend 100 bucks on something with another warranty that sound as good just aren't as solid. (Well, considering they don't work I guess the build quality thing is moot eh?)

[wdw]

$150 to repair a $300 headphone (that's really worth $200)? Time to buy Sennheiser or Beyerdynamic. Or as my wife did *after* getting her P5 fixed - she switched to the ATH ESW9a.

 

the service guy was candid...I would be paying $150.00 for a new pair but I take your point as I'm certain that is still above their cost. When I asked for some consideration due to the plastic turning soft and sticky with this likely occurring when under warranty and clearly a design fault...no sympathy!

[dalethorn]

I remember helping people who had bad cables on P5's and also Bose OE2 headphones, and both times they were having difficulty with the manufacturers getting replacements. My impression of these cases was that the manufacturers had Apple and non-Apple versions, and in the Bose case at least, the Apple version was priced higher. So when customers wanted to order the Apple cable for a headphone that didn't come with an Apple cable originally, the manufacturer would refuse to sell it to them. All well and good, except I got the feeling from those support cases that the customers were getting bad vibes from the manufacturers. I think both of these manufacturers need to put on a friendlier face.

[wdw]

the service guy was candid...I would be paying $150.00 for a new pair but I take your point as I'm certain that is still above their cost. When I asked for some consideration due to the plastic turning soft and sticky with this likely occurring when under warranty and clearly a design fault...no sympathy!

Happy ending for this cowboy...have just been advised by B&W Support that they've shipped a new pair and will not be charging me for the exchange, nor the courier charges for the return.

Kudos to B&W Support

[bleedink]

So they did not deduct the 150? Just making sure before I consider this.