Newcomer to Computer Audio question

[MetalMan]

Hello everyone, I am a relatively newbie to Computer based Audio having only this past February dumped the WMP in my XP based computer for the JRMC. And I have just upgraded my PC to a new Windows 7 64 bit based machine. The sound quality is much better now, but the OEM motherboard based Realtek soundcard is only 96/24 capable. Thus my question: Would getting one of the new small entry level DAC's be worth it? Almost all of then being USB based only output at 96/24, so would i hear an improvement? (my PC does not have a digital or S/pdif output) Any recommendations or thoughts would be greatly appreciated, thanks!!!

[mayhem13]

Welcome!

Almost certainy an external, stand alone USB DAC will outperform your integrated audio. I've owned the HRT 2 and was very pleased with the performance.

[MetalMan]

OK, thats seems good, but would buying hi-rez 192/24 download's be a waste of time if i cannot listen to it unless it is downsampled anyway?

[thrand1]

OK, thats seems good, but would buying hi-rez 192/24 download's be a waste of time if i cannot listen to it unless it is downsampled anyway?

 

There was an article a while back and subsequent debate on this forum on the merits of 192/24 downloads. Here's a link to the forum thread (a link to the article is in the first post as well).

 

If you purchase a USB DAC that is 96/24 capable, my first thought would be yes, it would not make much sense to purchase the 192/24 download. I think you could hear a good improvement over your PC's onboard audio. Part of the benefit of an external DAC (be it USB, SPDIF, or any other connection method) is performing that conversion outside of the "noisy" environment of a PC. For example, some onboard soundcards may have higher levels of "hiss" or background noise during playback versus the external DAC. An external DAC may also deliver objectively lower levels of jitter leading to higher quality playback.

 

For the cost of the entry level USB DACs like the HRT MusicStreamer II, JDSLabs ObjectiveDAC (ODAC) and others around $150, it is certainly worth a shot! If you haven't already, Chris has a comprehensive guide to setting up JRMC to help get bitperfect playback to your external DAC if you choose to get one.

 

Good luck!

[Jud]

Hello everyone, I am a relatively newbie to Computer based Audio having only this past February dumped the WMP in my XP based computer for the JRMC. And I have just upgraded my PC to a new Windows 7 64 bit based machine. The sound quality is much better now, but the OEM motherboard based Realtek soundcard is only 96/24 capable. Thus my question: Would getting one of the new small entry level DAC's be worth it? Almost all of then being USB based only output at 96/24, so would i hear an improvement? (my PC does not have a digital or S/pdif output) Any recommendations or thoughts would be greatly appreciated, thanks!!!

 

Please note that 96/24 is not a limitation of USB DACs. It's the highest of the commonly available resolutions USB 1.1 can use, and Windows (unlike OS X and Linux) requires drivers for USB 2. At this end of the market, many DAC manufacturers would just as soon skip the cost and support involved in offering drivers.

 

Re 192/24 downloads, I agree with thrand1.

[MetalMan]

Ok, great info thrand1! I will check out that guide for JRMC set-up ASAP!!

And Jud, i agree, its the USB connection, not the DAC inherently. My PC only has USB or 3.5mm audio outs, not a lot of options. I even looked and did some research, and i cannot seem to find a good quality inboard PCI slot based card that uses WASAPI. They all seem to use ASIO drivers, and i have been wanting to upgrade my PC to Windows 7 for so long now just to take advantage of the WASAPI driver, and i really like the sound quality over my old XP machine.

[Paul R]

I think that with JRMC, the sample rate conversions will sound good. Buy the best USB DAC you can afford, not worrying if it does 24/192 or not, so long as it does 24/96. A DAC that does 24/96 well will sound much better than a DAC that can do 24/192 but only does it "so-so."

 

I know most of my music is ripped from CDs, and is 16/44.1, and if yours is too, be sure to get a DAC that also sounds fabulous doing Redbook quality music.

 

The HRT Streamers mentioned are good. What budget are you trying to stay in? There are a lot of choices in the $200 range - actually an AudioQuest DragonFly at $249 is a fantastic little DAC and plays well above it's price range.

 

If you can stretch to $500, there are a lot of choices to look at and listen to, such as the Halide DAC-HD and the Peachtree DAC*IT.

 

-Paul

[MetalMan]

Actually, i first wanted the ESI@julia, till i found out it uses ASIO drivers,

(see my last post) But as my only home computer, this PC will be mostly used for ripping/burning CD's and burning DVD's of live concert's, primarily from YouTube with my JRMC. Not much in the way of dedicated listening, or being used as a music server. I will use this computer to prep the CD/DVD's i will be using on my main system. I will be listening thru Mackie MR5 monitors as i set up track listings, see how various song clips uploaded to Youtube sound, and doing before/after listening tests, etc. Probably the Dragonfly ($250) would be the limit for now. If i ever do hook this PC up to my main system i would want to be able to stream digital 194/24 direct to my Marantz DV7600 either via S/pdif or the digital connection. I would then probably get the V-DAC, but this would still limit it to 96/24 'cause this PC only had USB outs.

[MetalMan]

Whoops, My DV7600 won't accept any input other than from the disk loading tray.... So until the next player upgrade, i can only output analog to go to my preamp.

[mayhem13]

24/96 YouTube clips?????

[spdif-usb]

What got you into thinking WASAPI is necessarily always better than ASIO on Win7, though?

[MetalMan]

You know, that is an excellent question! So i did 2 experiments. First i loaded a DVD i burned of a guitar clinic off of Youtube. (MetalMasters 4 at the Gramercy Theatre in NYC) It was downloaded as a high quality 1080p MP4. This was converted to Mpeg2 for DVD, and which has an audio codec called ac3. I played this thru MC and it sure as heck was upsampled to 96! The ac3 codec was actually 48/32 which i thought was pretty good too. I even took a screenshot to prove it! Then i played a DVD I made of concert clips regular people took on camera phones, and that too had the same result. I am pleased to say the least

[MetalMan]

I guess from reading thru JRMC's site i had the impression that WASAPI, if it works, was a better audio path.

[ted_b]

If your hardware that you select uses a native ASIO driver, go ahead and use it. That's fine; it'ss a good direct connection. Otherwise, choose WASAPI-Event style. Do not use the generic ASIO4ALL cuz it ain't really ASIO.

 

Not sure of your budget but a good inexpensive external DAC will surely outperform your current setup. But, and don't take this the wrong way, if you find yourself listening to lots of homemade guitar videos then it won't matter.

[Jud]

Actually, i first wanted the ESI@julia, till i found out it uses ASIO drivers,

(see my last post).... I would then probably get the V-DAC, but this would still limit it to 96/24 'cause this PC only had USB outs.

 

Have the Juli@ myself, and it's not bad at all. Would likely still be using it if it had worked with the FreeBSD operating system.

 

But as ted_b mentions, an external DAC will likely be better. One you may want to try is the Audioquest Dragonfly, which also works beautifully with a laptop as a high quality mobile rig.

[MetalMan]

None taken. The "homemade" guitar videos are from live concerts i attended. Then i view and listen to multiple videos to find the one with the best quality. I burn them to DVD so i can go back later and watch. (its better than just memories) I accept the fact that they are not the best sounding, but hey, live Death Metal concerts don't usually have great sound quality either!

[MetalMan]

I will probably go with the Dragonfly, then i can take it with me when visiting my parents. I can use it on her Vista equipped laptop to use with my 'phones

[spdif-usb]

WASAPI (exclusive mode), ASIO, Kernel Streaming. All of them are bit perfect; whichever works best for you is best. Even ASIO4ALL can be, because it uses Kernel Streaming. In theory, there should be no difference in sound between any of them, but that depends on the hardware system. ASIO or Kernel Streaming should be preferred instead of WASAPI only if it, for one reason or another, causes less problems and / or sounds (due to a hardware flaw) better than WASAPI. This is because WASAPI uses slightly less system resources, and that's all there basically is to it. Another reason why some people don't like ASIO very much is because they don't know how to correctly configure it (buffer settings, for example).

[MetalMan]

Well, that's the best simple explanation of the various audio drivers i've heard. If they are all really bit perfect, then in that case i would rather go with the Juli@ instead of the Dragonfly because its cheaper, and i could get full 192/24 output. Besides, i could get knowledgeable guys like spdif-usb to help me set up buffer settings!

[Jud]

Well, that's the best simple explanation of the various audio drivers i've heard. If they are all really bit perfect, then in that case i would rather go with the Juli@ instead of the Dragonfly because its cheaper, and i could get full 192/24 output. Besides, i could get knowledgeable guys like spdif-usb to help me set up buffer settings!

 

"Bit perfect" in the common use of the term isn't the end of things. That's only what's supplied to the DAC. DACs then have different interfaces (SPDIF, USB, etc.) and filters used within the DAC to do the digital to audio conversion, which sound different. So "bit perfect" into all the DACs doesn't equal identical sound out of all the DACs.

 

Doesn't mean you won't want to keep the Juli@, but just thought I'd raise the issue for you to consider.

[MetalMan]

That's true, and different PC's + Different hardware + different set-ups/settings + synergy= different sound, so its hard to know for sure which DAC to pick. I think with my PC only having USB makes the Juli@ a more attractive option, as i could have up to 192/24 sound.