Civility

[bdiament]

Hi WDW,

 

We just witnessed an innocent thread posted from an exuberant music lover who simply wanted to let us in on the skinny, some new cables, but the thread had to be shut done...well I want this gentleman to continue to post

 

To crudely paraphrase a great jazz lyric ....

 

Why anyone wants to step on the seams of anyone's dreams, is over my head....

 

WDW

 

Thank you for that.

I'm with you 100%.

 

It is sad that an enthusiast can't put up a post expressing that enthusiasm, without all the self-appointed "experts" and "scientists" chiming, saying the (seemingly pre-scripted) same things they say in other threads, like the talking heads on a TV "news" show.

 

And I'm sure they'll be back here, in this thread, with their "yes, but" responses, saying they agree BUT... (fill in the blah, blah, blah). One thing I never read in any of these folks' posts is a sense of joy regarding listening to music or in using their audio systems. They don't speak of their own *experience* and always react --and I do mean *react*-- when someone else writes of *their* experience. They're always here, ostensibly, to provide "clarity" and "truth" to the rest of us ignorant masses who are so dumb, we just want to share our happiness and our discoveries in music and audio. Only thing is, not one of them seems to recognize just how transparent they are.

 

And now they're choosing which *words* a person should or shouldn't use to describe *their own experience* and *their own feelings*. If anything is AMAZING, I would say that is. Amazingly transparent.

 

It isn't my forum and I don't envy anyone who tried to maintain one in audio. Still, I see this becoming a real problem here at CA and have taken to not participating in threads where these folks are allowed to linger and essentially, pee in the audio pool. Many a time, I visit and all I see is the same old, same old from the same old group of individuals. Then I just leave, thinking "this place used to be fun". (I often wish individuals were "locked" - or "deleted" - rather than threads.)

 

I hope the trend can be reversed. The Internet doesn't need another audio argument fest. It does need an audio forum where folks can freely share *their own* experiences and ideas in an atmosphere of fun and *real* mutual respect, which I'll define partially as simply knowing when to *not* post.

 

Best regards,

Barry

Soundkeeper Recordings

Barry Diament Audio

[bdiament]

Hi souptin,

 

...@bdiamet - I read your contributions here on CA with great interest, but in this case I respectfully suggest that your words here: "I often wish individuals were "locked" - or "deleted" - rather than threads" are not as well chosen as usual. The "ignore user" feature on this forum, when used tactfully of course, is a very effective alternative.

 

I understand and respect that you may feel differently but my words were chosen quite deliberately.

 

The "ignore user" feature does have its purpose but my contention is certain behaviors are deleterious to CA as a whole and ignoring them will harm, not help this forum.

 

Best regards,

Barry

Soundkeeper Recordings

Barry Diament Audio

[bdiament]

Hi Julf,

 

Barry,

 

I think we all agree...

 

If we all agreed, the situation that precipitated my post would not have arisen.

 

Best regards,

Barry

Soundkeeper Recordings

Barry Diament Audio

[bdiament]

Hi wgscott,

 

In my opinion, it actually *does* have to do with incivility - to the OP and to those who want to hear what he had to say.

 

The original poster in that thread was expressing excitement about a product he experienced. I may have missed it but I really don't recall his asking if anyone felt skeptical of the manufacturer's claims. The thread he started was about his *experience*. Almost immediately, the cowboys came out with guns blazing, shooting up the thread with the usual accusations toward the manufacturer.

 

From where I sit, this was most UNcivil, as I said, to the OP and to those of us who want to hear what he has to say.

As I see it, a separate thread could have been started to spit the anti-manufacturer vitriol, without having to crap on the existing thread - something, I'm sad to say, which is occurring here with increasing frequency.

 

It is the same old same old from the same old sources and it really does seem pre-scripted. "BS", "where's the proof", "anecdotal reports...", "objective", "science", "subjective", "voodoo". It is a tired story by now. Very, very tired.

I'm all for everyone having their say but I'm also all for doing the saying in a new thread if necessary, so as not to crap on every report of listening experience someone brings here.

 

Speaking for myself (and I would guess at least one or two others), I don't want the "protection" from user reports or from manufacturer's statements. I can judge for myself and I'm sure others are equally capable.

 

The thing is, the "protectors" never seem to notice their impact. Clearly the OP of *this* thread felt there was incivility and I posted here to agree.

 

Best regards,

Barry

Soundkeeper Recordings

http://www.barrydiamentaudio.colm

[bdiament]

Hi 4est,

 

Not for one moment did I think Priaptor was selling me something.

 

I think I know why. You didn't come here with guns drawn and trigger fingers itching. ;-}

I'll bet you even read the entirety of his post before you responded.

 

Me too.

 

Best regards,

Barry

Soundkeeper Recordings

Barry Diament Audio

[bdiament]

Hi wgscott,

 

Nobody has asked the manufacturer to supply an explanation for why their cable might sound better....

 

That would make sense to me, if I believed you've consulted everybody.

I for one, always want to hear what the manufacturer has to say and decide *for myself* whether or not I find it credible.

 

What nobody asked for (as can be seen in the thread) is for anyone to crap all over the thread about the OP's experience and excitement about same. Neither did I see anyone ask for the words he chose to express himself with to be evaluated. They are, after all, *his* words.

 

It is really just the most fundamental manners and lack of same that precipitated this thread.

 

Best regards,

Barry

Soundkeeper Recordings

Barry Diament Audio

[bdiament]

Threadcrappers never see what they're doing as threadcrapping.

It is an example of the "yes but" I referred to in post #7.

 

I've said what I have to say. My best to everyone here.

I do hope civility prevails. Right now, from where I sit, it is in the I.C.U. and things aren't looking good.

Is this becoming HeliumAudio?

 

Best regards,

Barry

Soundkeeper Recordings

Barry Diament Audio

[bdiament]

Please. There is nothing non-civil about pointing out non-civility. The technical term for this is "deflection"; another form of "yes but".

 

Neither is it suppression to ask folks not to suppress others. It is simply calling for respect for others who may not see things exactly the way you do or the way I do. It is letting folks have their say without feeling the need to stomp all over it.

 

Please discuss what you like. The point is to start a thread to discuss it rather than derail something an OP has started.

 

Why does this seem to be so difficult? Is there so little confidence in a point of view that one must repeat it, mantra-like, in every thread without end - as if the repetition provides support?

 

Those who are truly confident will not care if I post that I love my AMAZING cables, which I'm sure were made by naked elves in the forest whose feet never touch the ground. Others will endlessly dispute the elves, the forest, feet and the ground.

 

Barry

Soundkeeper Recordings

http://www.barrydiamentaudio.colm

[bdiament]

Hi Priaptor,

 

I'm sorry to see you apologizing for your own enthusiasm, which was clear in your post.

It was a report of your own experience. Who here has any access to that whatsoever other than you?

 

Perhaps my communication skills are less than what I wish they were. I did not get the point across clearly (if at all) as some continue the "yes but" by pointing out they were not attacking you but the manufacturer. For some reason, I'm not able to adequately communicate how what started as a sharing of your joy was rapidly shredded by folks who post the same things over and over again. My words just aren't getting across properly.

 

Or maybe it is something else. Perhaps a need to demonstrate a refined consumer awareness, no marks here, these are seasoned veterans of audio. I don't know. I just see cowboys with itchy trigger fingers (and Gene Hackman's words from "Unforgiven" come to mind).

 

Your post was an honest one. Please don't take it back.

 

Best regards,

Barry

Soundkeeper Recordings

Barry Diament Audio

[bdiament]

wgscott,

 

Then why not just say that, and forgo the lecture on how we ought to behave?

 

It was a request, not a lecture.

And I did say that. What I got in response was "reasons" for threadcrapping. The same, tired old, transparent reasons.

 

Look, I'm not here to argue with you. I tried to make a point. I'm sorry you don't agree.

 

Barry

Soundkeeper Recordings

Barry Diament Audio

[bdiament]

Hi Howie,

 

Barry,

 

Incidentally, at the risk of sounding like a sycophant, those present when we were comparing these new cables were most blown away by one of my favorite albums, Equinox.

 

Our posts must have crossed in the ether. Thanks for your kind and much appreciated feedback. This is certainly the week to hear "Equinox". ;-}

 

Best regards,

Barry

Soundkeeper Recordings

Barry Diament Audio

[bdiament]

Amazing and sad how a call for civility raises hackles in some quarters.

(Or should I say "AMAZING"?)

 

I wish you happiness.

 

Barry

Soundkeeper Recordings

Barry Diament Audio