Which connection is best for SQ?

[GammaG]

I have been searching around and looking for better ways to connect my pc to a dac unit. My main problem is the distance from my pc to the dac. I have mentioned this before in another thread, but am not really sure as to what connection would be the best for my situation, without losing SQ.

 

Things I've been told:

 

Try using a usb cable, bypassing my soundcard, but may have issues after x-amount of feet, as I have around 15' from pc to dac.

 

Build another pc strictly for audio and place near my main audio rack and attach a meter or so in length of a good audiophile brand of usb. (I really don't have the room for this!)

 

Use a wireless device, such as a Squeezebox touch, that would work off my wireless router. (Also been told by someone else, that SQ would suffer with wireless connections)

 

Try using my soundcard, and run quality S/PDIF cable to dac, as with S/PDIF cable, I would be able to run longer lengths as opposed to usb cable.

 

I was also told that I could try running Cat5 cable using an Ethernet connection. I am not sure how well this would work. Not even sure how I would even connect it. :{

 

Any thoughts on what would be the best solution for this particular situation.

 

 

Thanks!

 

John G.

 

[GammaG]

I thought that I would have received a response by now.

 

I am guessing that any of the recommendations I have been told must all be equally good!?

 

I just want to weigh my options as to what would be the best set-up for my particular situation!

 

Thanks again, to a few members here, that have given me a better understanding on the pc audio end.

 

John G.

 

 

 

[Julf]

I am sure there will be advice coming your way - a lot of it contradictory. Everybody will have their own opinion, and a lot of people will be very sure of their own opinion. My suggestion is a hybrid of two of your alternatives - use a Squeezebox touch, but wired with cat5/ethernet. Wireless works fine too, but a lot of people seem to have a bias against wireless from a SQ point of view. The Squeezebox has quite good SQ if you use the TOSLINK between the squeezebox and your DAC.

 

[GammaG]

I did plan on purchasing the Squeezebox touch, and also waiting of the release of the Peachtree NovaPre. The NovaPre should be available by mid March from what I have been told. I hope that I can get get a 30 day trial on it. I want to A/B it with the dac magic+!

 

I know that the Squeezebox touch offers a few different ways to connect.

 

I was planning on trying a couple of different connections to see which connection would give me the best SQ.

 

I wanted to try connecting a digital cable from my M-Audio sound card to a dac. I looked at some cables at Blue Jean cable site, and may purchase a 15' length in the Belden brand. I have heard that Belden makes some decent cables.

 

Can you tell me how I would connect the Cat5 cable? I am unfamiliar with this type connection. I know that Cat5 cable is cheap enough in price.

 

I am assuming that the Cat5 would connect to a Ethernet port, and then run to the Touch?

 

Thanks again Julf!

 

John G.

 

 

 

 

[Julf]

"I have heard that Belden makes some decent cables."

 

I have to confess that I come from the "if a digital cable makes an audible difference in your system, there is something wrong with your system". As long as nobody has a verified explanation for what would make digital cables sound different, the manufacturers don't have a clue either. They don't know how to make a "good" cable (apart from obvious things like decent shielding) - they only know how to make a good-*looking* cable

 

"I am assuming that the Cat5 would connect to a Ethernet port, and then run to the Touch?"

 

How does your computer connect to the Internet? If you have a switch/router, does it have free/empty ports? If so, you just run an ethernet cable from a free port to the Touch.

 

[GammaG]

The room that houses all my audio gear has wireless usb adapter connected to the pc, that picks up the signal from a 2 wire Gateway router located inside my home. The room that I am referring to is not attached to my home, rather a man cave located in the back yard.

 

Looking on the back side of my pc, there is an Ethernet port located on the mother board.

 

Would I be able to use this port?

 

Thanks again!

 

[Julf]

Everybody needs a proper man cave

 

Yes, you could use the ethernet connector on the main board - you might need a special ethernet cable (a "crossover" cable), but it might actually be easier to just get a really cheap 2- or 4-port hub. Ethernet cables are designed to connect computers to hubs, so if you don't use a hub, you are actually connecting 2 computers (a computer and the squeezebox) directly to each other, so the cable needs to be crossed over so that the "transmit" pair of one end go to the "receive" pair on the other end (and vice versa).

 

[GammaG]

I am not that familar with port hubs. Maybe you can recommend one. I take it that it would plug into the MoBo via pci slot?

 

I guess if they are fairly cheap, I could just use the regular Cat5 with a port hub.

 

I usually deal with newegg, so I guess I could order one from there.

 

If it's not out of your way, could you post a link to a decent port hub?

 

In your opinion, would the SQ from this set up be good?

 

Thanks again Julf!

 

 

[Julf]

The hub, as the name sort of says, is a central point for an ethernet network. So imagine it sitting in the middle, with both the computer and the squeezebox connecting into it using their respective ethernet cable - the one for the computer can be quite short. So no, no need to plug anything into PCI, just an ethernet cable from the computer to the hub.

 

Got that? Good. Then I can completely confuse you by saying that nobody sells hubs anymore. They have all gone smart, and are called switches (technically, a hub is not aware of the traffic, and repeats all packets on all ports, while a switch is smarter and "switches" the traffic only to those ports that it is intended for). So while a hub would work for you if you could find one, these days a switch is cheap enough that nobody makes hubs any more. I suggest a cheap ZyXEL switch.

 

It is pretty much the setup I use to feed a squeezebox from my linux server, and I am very happy with the sound.

 

You will have to get somebody who knows Apple computers to tell you how to configure the network interface for a fixed address (or, better, to enable a DHCP server on the computer). Would be happy to help, but I am a Linux guy.

 

[Jim Sylva]

Another thread, USB Extender Solves Cable Length Limitation, discusses a few possible solutions.

 

I bought the 5 meter Monoprice USB extender (currently cited on Monospace's web site as the older product) which is discussed in the thread cited above. For less than $10, I figured it was definitely worth trying. I have been very pleased with the results.

 

I am fairly new to this game, so please view my comment with this fact in mind.

 

[orgel]

Julf wrote:

 

"You will have to get somebody who knows Apple computers to tell you how to configure the network interface for a fixed address (or, better, to enable a DHCP server on the computer). Would be happy to help, but I am a Linux guy."

 

I typed out some instructions for doing this on a Mac (they were very short), but then I thought I'd better review the OP's posts. This talk of Mobo's and sound cards strongly suggests he's a Windows user.

 

Platform aside, I'd recommend that when the OP gets his Ethernet switch he opts for one that has gigabit Ethernet. Just a little future-proofing and better performance (when copying files, etc.). As an example, NewEgg has a NetGear GS105 for $40. I have one of those, and it's been completely problem free. NewEgg carries some ZyXEL stuff, but I didn't spend enough time browsing to spot something comparable to the NetGear unit.

 

--David

 

[esldude]

I would suggest going the USB route myself. But I have not used the suggestion that Julf has posted.

 

I can say the Monoprice extenders do work fine even at longer lengths. You still get the ability to pass 192 khz files without issue.

 

There is more than one way to skin a cat, and maybe more ways to get good sound with a computer source these days than you can skin a cat. So a number of ways you can end up with improved sound quality. The convenience of it is just icing on the cake.

 

[James1776]

All your fixes will cost but this toy has caught my eye

 

http://audioengineusa.com/Store/Audioengine-D2

 

If I was not broke I would own one today.

 

[Paul R]

Julf has what I think is the best take on this so far. Must be a pretty smart guy.

 

I'd suggest you try the SBT as wireless first. This is what it would look like, a bit:

 

 

[speakers][amp][dac][squeezebox Touch] )))) wireless

 

))) wireles ((( --> PC USB adapter --> [PC]

 

 

You can always come in and attach an Ethernet cable between the PC and the Touch - it just replaces the ))) wireless (((( part above.

 

In the example above, your music is really stored on the PC and managed by a piece of software called Logitech Media Server. You have several other options as well.

 

For example, the simplest option is:

 

[speakers][amp] [sBT] ==USB==[uSB Disk Drive]

 

You could then control all the music directly from the Touch interface, and use the DAC built into the Touch. I don't think it is as convenient, but it works, and you don't even need to have the network connected or turned on. The music is stored on the USB disk drive.

 

You can also use a USB memory stick instead of a USB Disk Drive, but they are much smaller. And there are more than a few more permutations you can use.

 

In short, you have an infinity of options, and someone is always going to say one way is better than the other. You probably just need to break down and try one setup or another to figure out what you like.

 

Oh, connecting a physical ethernet cable to the PC and the Touch requires a little bit of manual manipulation, but not much. The exact details depend upon the machine you are using as computer and the OS you are running on it.

 

Yours,

-Paul

 

 

 

 

[GammaG]

I really appreciate you guys taking your time to comment on what connections and such are needed for what I am trying to accomplish!

 

I have followed Julf's recommendations up until configuring the network interface.

 

Also, David is correct about me having a windows OS.

That being said, do I still have to get a switch of some sort?

And if so, I have no clue as to configuring a network interface!

 

It appears that taking a few different approaches, such as trying a usb extender, as Jim recommended, trying Cat5 cable connected via an Ethernet port and perhaps getting some help with that connection! Also could try the sound card approach running digital cable from the S/PDIF out to digital in on dac. Would also have the wireless approach with the Squeeze box.

 

With all of these options and really not spending an arm and a leg, I could A/B them, and see which one sounds best for me!

 

Question: Do I still shoot for getting this ZyXEL switch, or going for the NetGear GS105?

 

Thanks again to each and everyone here!

 

John G.

 

 

 

 

 

[esldude]

Question: Do I still shoot for getting this ZyXEL switch, or going for the NetGear GS105?

 

Just my experience, but Zyxel is often not great equipment. Netgear or something else would be my choice. Whatever you get, look at the reviews by customers at www.newegg.com You can avoid troublesome equipment that way most of the time.

 

[mayhem13]

Wireless gets a bad rap for reasons that have little to do with SQ and more with wireless network issues. Given the data transmission of audio files, there's absolutely no reason that properly configured wifi system can't perform equal to a wired gigabit network. If we were talking HD 1080p video, I'd agree with the wired recommendation. But it's still a question of network dropouts and NOT sound quality. For data transmission a bit is a bit is a bit.......

 

I like the idea of the SB and the USB drive direct connect though. There's a double redundancy there with file backups that makes perfect sense to me. You never know what you had.....until it's gone.

 

[Mark Powell]

Your 15 ft is well within the 5 metre USB length specification.

 

So don't waste your time and money on any of these USB extenders. At 15 ft they are simply not needed. They are just 'fixing' a non-existent problem.

 

[sandyk]

John G.

Personally, I would try coax SPDIF from your soundcard before spending any real money.

Alex

P.S.

If it doesn't work out as well as you hoped for, just cut the lead in half, and fit decent quality red and black RCA plugs to the other ends, and you will have a good quality >2Metre interconnect. (wink)

Alex

 

[Julf]

David,

 

You are probably right about Windows - my apologies, my excuse is that yesterday was a long day.

 

I picked the ZyXel because it was the cheapest one on Newegg that would do the job. For $20 I wasn't too concerned about future-proofing - a gigabit-capable one is double the price, and I figured that if the OP ever needed gigabit speeds, switches would have come down in price even more by then.

 

[Julf]

"In short, you have an infinity of options, and someone is always going to say one way is better than the other."

 

One of the luxury problems of technology - too much choice.

 

"Julf has what I think is the best take on this so far. Must be a pretty smart guy. "

 

Even if Mensa chucked me out for unpaid membership fees?

 

 

 

 

[Julf]

"Do I still shoot for getting this ZyXEL switch, or going for the NetGear GS105?"

 

The ZyXEL is cheap. Netgear is a more "reputable" manufacturer. Both will work. I wouldn't worry too much about "future proof", as cheap switches will be even cheaper and more capable in a couple of years, so if a $20 ZyXEL carries you a year or two, you can use the money saved on the price difference on a new, even better switch - if you want.

 

[phofman]

John, I may have overlooked the answer but how do you plan to operate your audio source from your shack?

 

[orgel]

Julf wrote:

 

"I picked the ZyXel because it was the cheapest one on Newegg that would do the job. For $20 I wasn't too concerned about future-proofing - a gigabit-capable one is double the price, and I figured that if the OP ever needed gigabit speeds, switches would have come down in price even more by then."

 

I don't really disagree. Certainly the OP doesn't need gigabit ethernet to play music. It's just that in my setup, I end up copying ripped/downloaded files from the ripping/downloading station to the dedicated music server, and for an extra $20, it's nice to have the extra speed for those activities (provided, of course, the devices in question are gigabit capable).

 

I notice that an 8-port ZyXel gigabit switch costs the same as a 5-port NetGear switch, so if you need the extra ports, that's a plus for the ZyXel. Both devices seem to have favorable user reviews on NewEgg.

 

--David

 

[GammaG]

Thanks again for the great comments!

 

Phofman, I do not fully understand your question. If you are referring to how I will connect my audio components using my pc, I plan on trying a few different connections to see what sounds best to me. As others here have pointed out, I believe that I should try the less cost effective connections first to see what works best for me. Then later on, I could maybe look at upgrading cables and such. Hope that this helps with your question.

 

For around $20, I can try the ZyXel switch and order some Cat5. I can also purchase the usb cable from monoprice, and the S/PDIF cable (Belden type) from blue jeans cable.

 

Maybe someone could walk me through the installation of connecting the ZyXel switch, as it would be Greek to me.

 

Thanks once again to everyone!

 

John G.