Halide Design Bridge Review

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try one of the recommended items on the list, then try another. if you preview it at a dealership, but get something else, Wonderful.<br />

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Playing devil’s Advocate here ...it's not about fact finding, but market stimulation instead.<br />

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trying out an entirely subjectively appointed & self approved list of hardware componentry until one of them or more, fits, is an enterprising idea. IF you're in sales, that is. Sounds exactly what I would have said back when I was selling electronics, and couldn't convince a buyer with my choice based upon their needs and purely on my say so.<br />

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Despite my experience, product knowledge, and integrity, folks some how required more!. It always astonished me.<br />

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People by and large are trusting sorts. Good. I am too.<br />

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Some times however they need critical data to justify or fuel their purchase… not just my say so…. Or such was my exp in decades of sales. All the time people needed well, uh, assurances. They got ‘em with data and in kind associations.<br />

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All I'm saying or have been saying here, is I'm now in the buyer's shoes.. <br />

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We all are.<br />

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I’m simply unconvinced of the degree of benefit any or all of the CASH listed products deliver….…WITHOUT AT LEAST SOME PARALLEL COMPARATIVE METHODS AND/OR QUANTIZATION… or without firsthand trials.<br />

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Which ever way, or for whatever reason (s), the CASH list is promulgated going forward suits me.<br />

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The notes I submitted were proposed to help further truncate, diminish, or eleminate the routine specters, doubts, and outright skepticism that are attached to so many off the cuff or unsupported articles attempting to (overtly) be a clear and clean objective take on some device…. irrespective of the experience level, honesty, or judgment of its author, were they going forward, included or revisited.<br />

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This is difficult to see plainly unless you look at it all from a perspective outside that of your own. Try to step into some one else’s shoes and squint at it a while… you ll see soon enough adding merely those two precepts, comparative assessments of likewise and or former, better or lesser items, and measured info compared to the makers specs, if added into each article, will definitely inject, solidify and increase a person’s very own confidence factor needed to purchase a fair number of CA recommended items, or even, just one.<br />

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It’s no small task for either party, but especially tuff on Chris.<br />

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Chris’ altruistic endeavor here is unimpeachable. Tons of folks have enlisted and received his aid, and that of other members here. Super. I’m one of them and glad to have received such positive input from time to time.<br />

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It’s your ball Chris and you can run it as you wish. I simply know from just being older now, there’s room for improvement in every aspect of my system, home, and my life itself. My thoughts were pointed towards that sole end…. Improvement based on the fact another person will see in me things I do not see readily. <br />

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Please forgive my observations. I only meant to see your judgement calls on recommended components not fall prey to suspicion or negative controversy.. <br />

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AS for the HD Bridge & M2Tech converter race, i could care less if the cable in use for the USB converter is fishin’ line with a thimble on each end…. In fact I think that’s just what I’m using now.<br />

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I just want to attain some better grasp of the likes and/or differences from the two. My sieve like brain will then attempt to sort it all out and like everyone else, make a virtual judgement on the presented material…. And it’ll be fun to do I’m sure. My next fistful of hundreds isn’t slated for “Digi-city” anyhow, it’s on the road to “Tubes-ville” instead.<br />

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Addressing the cable for the M2T should make for an easy enough task to formulate an opinion of the cheapo USB thingy.<br />

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Every component has a wire sticking out of it somewhere. <br />

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My M2T + cable pair is $130 less than your’s Chris… or Fiddy bucks less than the HD Bridge, overall<br />

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FYI… With its double barrled array of oscillators/chip sets, one handling 44.1K and it’s multiples’ the other raking in the multiples of 48K … the run in time gets doubled too. or so I’m thinking…<br />

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Following 24hrs of 16/44 playback, switching to 24/96 for playing back those file types, the Hiface sounded like it had almost no run in time on it at all, yielding nearly ‘out of the box’ attributes. Interesting, huh?<br />

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Be well.<br />

BlindJim, how is the way Chris does reviews and produces the CASH list any different from the countless magazines there are out there?<br />

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They, generally, try to give you an honest review of the products lent to them. Then give some advise if the product is up there with the best, good for it's cost, or generally just okay (a few are abysmal but they seam to be few and far between). It's then up to you to see how they fit in with your own system - the reviewers don't know how it sounds with every piece of kit.<br />

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To Chris - can I suggest that might be worth having an "index" of all your reviews, listed by device type? Obviously some you give CASH list status to, but it's difficult to find older reviews where they are no longer (or never were) on the list. Even if the product is no longer available, or no longer available in the form you reviewed. Another thought to do with the CASH list - under the Minerva you say no longer available - replaced by DAC202, it might be useful if you note the DAC2 is still available.<br />

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Eloise

I honestly am surprised that anyone takes any of the mags web based or print as a bible to use to buy stuff. The last time I checked Chris or Harry Pearson or countless others are not coming to my house to listen. The fact is unless they were buying the gear and moving in I still would never use them more than a someone who may make me aware of interesting product. Jim, I think you should use you extra money where you chose and if tube based amplification is in your plans go for it. I would make sure to LISTEN and not measure the units but tubes can be very nice. The thing is there are hundreds of units out there and many that are very nice. There is no absolute (sorry HP) that is right for every system and use. I do not think the Cash list is worth the angst that you have. I do not think the Blue Moon awards or the Editors choice awards are either. I may well also buy tubes but my situation is different than yours and I may well end up with different product. That makes neither of us wrong. I am considering the Butler amplifier cause it fits my situation. There are others that I would have to compromise in some way to use but may decide the compromise is worth it.<br />

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Chris I do think an archive of your reviews would be helpful. I have to agree with Eloise on that. I could care less what you do with the list but rest assured it will never be a bible that I buy from with sounds unheard. I learned that lesson long ago listening to other reviewers and being new in the hobby. In closing so I throw another reviewer some flack in a way. We all could listen to Peter and we all would own Arcam 600 avr receivers no matter what we used them for cause they walk on water according to Peter. Jim in closing whatever measurements you use are still really only meaningful to you and no one else. I think maybe we all should go listen to some music now!

Thanks for the honest opinions.

And thanks for including pricing and contact information. I plan to order one of these next quarter. <br />

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(I would order it now, but I need to resod the yard and darn if the roof didn't need a few repairs. Darn golfballs!

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Eloise<br />

...I thought by adding in a couple factors to help Chris' circumvent the pale so many of them exhibit by becoming more factual and less casual in the recitation.<br />

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But you are spot on and I agree totally with your entire post.<br />

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Gulinias<br />

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‘… the list is not worth the angst that you have for it’<br />

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Agreed.<br />

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I’m the sort that when I’ve gotten good from a place I support that place in kind, as much as is possible. I became enamored with the straight forward, no nonsense, and well meaning atmosphere I’ve seen and felt here, and thought earlier on this effort was a little cut above the balance of the litany of ‘faceless online’ advisory committees’ that shout to us spend your duckets here.. there and on this or that.<br />

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I simply felt the CA was more genuine with it’s offerings… but noted some items which could, or might keep its aim more on target. Guess I was to enthusiastic about it..<br />

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Neither do I get the vibe that articles here are directly pointed purely towards generating sales for the items in the list, though it is an aside of noteworthyness.<br />

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Indeed I have bought items ‘unpreviewed’ and likely will again. I’ve also found kernals of great truth in some reviews, though of course that was after the fact… and have found some reviewers tend to coincide with my tastes and ears. Very few actually, but 3 or 4 sure seem to.<br />

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I’m all about tubes as my preamp, mono blocks, and even my Butler TDB 5150 although a hybrid, possess glass in the signal path. <br />

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The event I mentioned is to have the maker of my monos modify/upgrade them to function/operate as do his current models which auto bias. Thus helping me overcome an ongoing physical degeneration which has severely diminished my province for using them, and the pleasure that comes from it.<br />

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BK Butler’s outfit is a good one given my exp with them. Email me and I’ll tell you more if you wish. As the Butler’s are auto biasing, I’ve been using it for my go to amp in combo with several preamp’s… DAC, Receiver, and the Thor MK II, naturally.<br />

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Thanks & Good luck.<br />

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Chris<br />

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You’re welcome. Keep up the so far so good efforts, they are genuinely appreciated.<br />

Wow! Lots of interesting posts here.<br />

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I wanted to give the thread some time to mature before jumping in and offering my own two cents. I think I'm coming in at like post 33, but the discussion still seems to be going strong ...<br />

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There are lots of different ideas bouncing around here, but I want to focus on one thing that I'm a bit surprised hasn't been mentioned here yet - we have a 60 day money back guarantee on everything we sell, and always have. (It's right there on our <a href="http://www.halidedesign.com/store'>http://www.halidedesign.com/store">store</a>.) We started doing this way back with the <a href="http://www.devilsound.com/DAC">devilsound DAC</a>, and I think it has worked out well.<br />

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It's silly to think that you can really understand how something sounds from reading about it. Of course, reviews are important, as are forums, and technical specs, and all of that. And Chris and other writers do a pretty good job with the really awkward task of trying to put into words how something sounds ... it's like describing a wine or something, you can try to get the idea across, but can only communicate so much with words.<br />

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Ultimately, how the sound hits you, and even what it is that you are looking for in the sound, can be as personal as the kind of music you listen to. Some people like tubes, in the same way that some people like, I dunno, opera (or hair metal, for that matter).<br />

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Well, maybe with something like S/PDIF this will be a little less subjective, since the goal is just to get the jitter as close to zero as possible. (Although there was a device out a while ago that worked by adding massive jitter to your signal. Not my cup of tea, really, but it just goes to show ...) And certainly, you can have a device that interacts in a particular way with your system - even with something as "bits only" as S/PDIF.<br />

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The return policy also a way of sending a message. We think our stuff is done right, and this comes through in the sound. Correspondingly, it's not a secret that there are cheaper devices out there, just as there are more expensive devices out there. And we were keenly aware of the existing market, and where the bar had been set, when we were working on our device.<br />

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This is just something to think about, and I wanted to bring it up because that hadn't been mentioned. We have a lot of really pleased customers from the DAC, and we did that the old-fashioned way. We built something that was an unexpected change from the norm (I think it would be fair to say that we brought non-oversampled DACs to a lot of people who had never experienced the sound before - it has a very distinctive tonality ... not to mention the form factor), and gave people the freedom to make up their own minds about it.<br />

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So ... same with <a href="http://www.halidedesign.com/bridge'>http://www.halidedesign.com/bridge">the Bridge</a>. We think it's pretty awesome. Chris liked it enough to C.A.S.H. it, which I think says a lot. And correspondingly, as it gets into more people's hands, I think the 'net will tend to agree as well.<br />

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Hope this helps - thanks for the interest, and the awesome discussion!<br />

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Jonathan<br />

<a href="http://www.halidedesign.com">Halide Design</a><br />

I've been a fan of Devilsound since I reviewed their DAC cable last year (& the second version was even better) for Positive Feedback Online - and when I heard the bridge last weekend I too was VERY impressed, and a bit floored, at its performance!<br />

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When u think SPDIF u typically think of jitter, and why deal with a unt that doesn't fully address it (as great, reasonable USB DACs like the HRT Streamers are asynchronous) - but with the asynchronous USB code from Wavelength Audio (which I'm VERY interested in) - this little gem is a BANGER!<br />

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Lookin forward to seeing what they do next!<br />

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Yours in Sound,<br />

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Michael Mercer<br />

Positive Feedback Online<br />

The Daily Swarm

But I like to use usb link more.

I for one ALWAYS insist that my readers hear things for themselves - as does Harry (Pearson). He's always just tried to offer his observations, like any good journalist - and he's just as surprised when people take anybody's word over their own ears (and I know him, so believe me its true)..<br />

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I even my readers when they email - luckily some agree with ya, and others don't. We're all human, and interpret things differently, but experience can aid in evaluating a components ability to be truly musical.<br />

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I also there is no Absolute (and this from a former TAS crew member) but I don't think anybody needs to direct this feeling at Hp or anybody for that matter. <br />

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As a music addict, I think its great when we just share our own thougths, and turn each other on to great stuff.<br />

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Michael Mercer<br />

Positive Feedback Online<br />

The Daily Swarm <br />

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Mike<br />

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I doubt I ever implied that Harry or yourself or any of the other countless audio journalists thought that people should take what they wrote as gospel. I just was using the few examples as why reviews need to call attention to worthy products but maybe not so much crown kings and become a buying guild like consumer reports. I have read positive feedback and every journal I mentioned and they all are fine and serve a purpose. We both agree and apparently so does Pearson that the purpose is not to be an oracle that people use from on high to make buying decisions. I most likely read HP long before you were on the staff and I knew audiophiles who used it like the wisdom from above. That is no ones fault and I was just trying to point out to everyone that we should not use the mags for that but to call attention to worthy components. We are in total agreement and your post makes me more likely to try the bridge and compare it to the Hi Face in my system. Thanks and have a great day. In closing I think everyone should remember that just because a product is not reviewed that does not lessen its quality and once again the choice is you the final user.

Hi Mike,<br />

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I don't know if I'd admit to being a former TAS writer <br />

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Seriously, I would think at this stage that some kind of asynchronous interface would be in every product. Then the debate about async vs adaptive could end. Maybe some companies have too much invested in marketing the non async stuff to now come out with asynch and claim it's better. I don't know. <br />

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Regards,<br />

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Larry<br />

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Mike M.<br />

I’m sorry but I’m having significant trouble getting the gist of your post (s) here as it seems vague & disconnected.<br />

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The only obvious object I gleaned was the enthusiastic support for the HD outfit and their efforts, past and present.<br />

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Such as:<br />

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“I even my readers when they email - luckily some agree with ya, and others don't. We're all human, and interpret things differently, but experience can aid in evaluating a components ability to be truly musical.”<br />

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It takes little experience to determine one’s likes and dislikes…. On a purely Musical theme or not, <br />

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With the premise you enjoy regularly the system you have, adding or replacing a new item into it, the ‘then’ addition either reveals another level of performance increase or not. It either becomes more engaging and exciting, stays the same just on a different tact, or the system suffers some loss.<br />

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I’ve found no other results from the replacement, addition or subtraction of devices in an audio system.<br />

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This is despite or in lieu of personal tastes, system levels or expense of the overall component arrangement. Either it is improved upon, takes a side ways step or so, or is lessend via the latest change (s). Period.<br />

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Experience then is of no major matter.<br />

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It’s like getting an eye exam when the Dr. says following a change of lenses, “Is this the same, better, or worse?”<br />

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We need no past experience or outside authority to add their insight then.<br />

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This thought especially…<br />

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“I also there is no Absolute (and this from a former TAS crew member) but I don't think anybody needs to direct this feeling at Hp or anybody for that matter.”<br />

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?? You must have been in a hurry here. Maybe some refresher courses in journalism or creative writing are in order… or just less haste.<br />

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Could be too, I had too much sunshine in my youth or was oxygen deprived during birth, but I read and reread this sentence ten times or more and have no clue what is meant by it.<br />

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Journalist or not, I think if one is capable of pecking out a few cogent thoughts on a word processor, or texting truncated short hand thoughts from their cellular, no one will take another’s words over what they themselves are able to find out with their own eyes and ears. <br />

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But then there’s the rub isn’t it? Finding out for one’s self. Thankfully halide Design inputted here their standing offer for a two month in home trial and full refund if the device is not satisfactory. I congratulate them for that quite fair and consumer friendly stance.<br />

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There are however products which their makers will not allow for such events. Then and there for market awareness and exploitation purposes, pulp and online articles fuel or follow any or all of their products releases. Additionally the manufacturers heritage and reputation buy them some market share as well.<br />

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I’ve said and reiterated here, I’m most grateful for the pertinent insights and knowledge base I’ve acquired on these very pages and as well enjoy Chris’ articles and efforts immensely and ongoing.<br />

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Few people as a rule, thoroughly read and then attentively input thoughts to posts such as these threads, most are decidedly polarized opinions and off target as to their replies. They read about the first two or three sentences or so of another’s post and then proceed ill equipped but enthusiastically to depose one individual or camp, and/or support some other.<br />

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It’s all good I suspect. As B. Behan was credited as saying once upon a time, <br />

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“There’s no such thing as bad publicity, except one’s own obituary.”<br />

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So I’d take issue with DeVille/Halide Design and the comment made pertaining to the silliness of any effort to convey adequately what a thing sounds like in mere words, eg., reviews…. to some extent. <br />

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Good bad or indifferent, reviews, and online discussions, generate awareness. Awareness promulgates interest. Debates thereafter support and feed that singularly purposed swell of attention… as it has here.<br />

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I’ve only supported adding to the published online articles here with contrasting like or closely similar products be at least mentioned during those accounts, and perhaps too, adding in some verifiable measurements which also could uphold or interest some in the know. Without such textures being routinely imbedded into the context they amount to simple raves or indictments, regardless where one stands on the culpability or authenticity or their worth at all.<br />

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Personally I find them all fun in part or in whole and am appreciative of both the awareness they provide me and the incite I gain from them, be it unbiased or not. Naturally the former will hold more water for the more cynical or objective reader such as myself. I’m a recovering idealist yet cynicism seems a prudent path when viewing commercial advertising, and reviews unless purely altruistic are indeed commercial advertising.<br />

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It’s in overcoming the darkness and suspicion which shadows all advertising that is key if influenced people are to be the aim of it.<br />

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I bare none ill will and wish great prosperity for HD and anyone else’ efforts that yield positive results for the consumer and in this case, the computer audiophiles adventure into high end audio.<br />

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But I see a shortfall of sorts with any device which curtails the accumulation of and playback of, music. Until or IF, the onset of various formats is decided/determined, any appliance limiting the such acquisitions are IMHO lessening the catalog any music addict can subscribe to. IOW… oh.. I’d like to have that high res download, but it’s in 176.4, or 192 only.<br />

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It may be a minor point or none at all for some, but it is noteable. And no, I’d not wish to sacrifice quality for a greater range of format choices either.<br />

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Lastly Chris, or HD,<br />

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As WASAPI was used with the HD Bridge, but not any ASIO support, must it be so used? Were the diffs without WASAP great? How so? Was it used on the XP platform? Should or must Win 7 be used for optimum results with the HD Bridge? <br />

Hi guys - There was a spam post claiming to prefer one product over the Bridge. I removed the post because the spammer was really attempting to promote a Chinese shopping site. This may be the source of some of the recent confusion with Mike's post.

I thought it was a good write up with good information introducing a new product you found to your liking. <br />

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I'm sure when you're done assessing the HiFace we'll get more info and a better idea in comparison. I applaud you holding back opinion between the two (HiFace & HDB) rather than shooting from the hip like most of us do on the internet. I eagerly look forward to reading your review of the HiFace once your done with it.<br />

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To the comments above about price difference. Are you guys using audiophile $2 digital cables to go with your HiFace? The Halide bridge is also the cable and included in the price so when you start comparing cost, please consider the cost of the cable you purchased to be used with the HiFace so it will more of an apples to apples price comparison. Lets say an avg. budget digital cables cost $150ish like the Anticable. Then it creeps to over $300, if your using a more expensive but highly recommeded cable like the Ridge Street ($350/1m) then your at $500 total cost using the HiFace compared to the $450 Halide. Of course if you use a cheap digital cable then your cost's is lower.<br />

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As you have read in the past, I have been very impressed with the Devilsound usb DAC. I would read comments about it being over priced compared to the HRT and others but they don't add up the cost of descent (worthy) interconnects and a USB cable. All of a sudden the Devilsound is looking like a much better deal.<br />

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Have a good weekend.<br />

@Chris<br />

Matias: "How is a more expensive and better sounding piece of equipment better rated then a cheaper one and goes to CASH list?"<br />

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Chris:"If I understand this it means a. more expensive and b. better sounding should not be on the List because there is a cheaper product that sounds worse? I doubt you really mean that or maybe I'm just not understanding your words correctly. No worries."<br />

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Matias: Sorry, I meant that better sounding and more expensive equipment should not always be on the list because it really comes down to the value=benefits/cost ratio. If we could put into numbers, let's say an equipment is "10% better sounding and 50% more expensive". Then it has a worse value rating then the cheaper one.<br />

Of course it is difficult alone to review and write the sound of an equipment, let alone quantify it! But anyway I think that the CASH list should focus into this magic marketing ratio called value.<br />

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Thanks for your reply and review anyway! :-)<br />

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@mr macgee:<br />

Interesting, you have a good point. It never occured to me that the Halide includes the price of the cable itself in it. <br />

I suppose it must be a very good USB cable, because it can't be detached and upgraded later, right?<br />

Or maybe it is just a cheap USB cable, but because of the very interesting design, maybe the device treats the jitter of the cheap cable and it does not need a very good digital SPDIF cable since it attaches directly into the DAC, right?

I know I should not get into this again but value is once again up to the person. I may think something is outstanding value and you may not agree. This could go both ways/ You may love a piece of gear and I may not think it is worth close to the money. I may adore a piece of gear and you may think it is awful. Then money enters into value. One may have much more money to spend and may see value in a more expensive piece of gear than one who is on a tight budget. This hobby is a lot about the last 10 per cent and that is of varying importance to people and there wallets. I listened to a Shindo based system and honestly it was wonderful. I could never afford it so it has no value to me, If I had the 100k to spend on this system and could afford to I may feel differently. Chris told you that he felt the Bridge was better and by a good but if you read between the lines and he felt the value was there to be his go to interface for the ones he has heard. There is a value judgment there in my opinion,

Great that we have so many new products offering so many choices of signal routes to DAC. In fact, overwhelming! I agree that a monster comparative shoot-out of multiple options would be helpful. Something like:<br />

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SonicWeld Diverter vs Halide Bridge vs Bel Canto USB link vs Audiophileo vs ART Legato vs MTech HiFace vs Asus Xonar vs Lynx AES16 vs Stello & Lindeman DDC vs Empirical OffRamp vs high quality USB cable direct to an asynch implementation.<br />

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If anyone in the UK wants to meet up somewhere for a 'bake-off', I can bring all of the above, minus the OffRamp, Legato, HiFace and Bel Canto (which Chris made have excluded from the mix?) Doubtless I missed some exciting contenders from this list...?

You would need to add the Stello U2, the Musiland 02 US. For most of us the Weiss INT202,although firewire, is highly relevant in this category.<br />

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Of course as soon as the test is done the Hiface Evo arrives followed by the Wavelength and no doubt a few more!

A test like this would be fun. Long, but fun. ;-)

Hubsand whereabouts are you in the UK, I could bring both M2Tech's and the Weiss, it might be interesting, I have been asking Pat for a Legato for ages,Pat?<br />

Keith.

Not so sure what a "shoot-out" would mean as that is an event at that time with that set-up. I tend to find that such "comparisons" have little meaning to the wide-range of listeners and their systems. In the end, all one can do is report on what they heard "in that system/configuration" ad then let the reader go from there.<br />

I have now the Empirical Audio Off-Ramp 3 (with Ultraclock) powered by the Hynes DC PSU, a Sonicweld Diverter, the Stello U2, the Blue Circle Thingee, the M2Tech, the Halide Bridge, and coming soon the Audiophelio, Art Legato, and Lindemann units and a few others still in the works/under development.<br />

They are all quite good at their respective price points, differences do exist that depending on the individual could be important or not, some are rather amazing considering what they cost and/or look like, and yes, I have some favorites or preferences. But that is here in my system with my music and whatnot.<br />

Am not so sure that any of them have a distinct advantage over another clearly based on any specific thing (hint USB approach), but more about the whole (the sum of its parts) than whatever.

I was going to say that all data is good data, but that's clearly not true. But a shootout should be interesting. If nothing else, it's an impressive collection of technology, no? That's got to be worth something.<br />

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I suspect that the differences between many of these will be non-obvious, but ... well, what if they aren't? What would be particularly interesting is if a consensus emerges. Or if, even more interestingly, it fails to. And why!<br />

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As for your own burgeoning collection, Dave, I'd love to see your own personal stack ranking! Caveat it however you like, and feel free to stagger the "competitors" at their respective price points. But if any true champs emerge from your listening tests (or of anyone's shootout tests), I for one would love to hear of them!<br />

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As for the issue of system synergy/system dependency, I have no ready answer -- and that is, I think, the crux of your caution. Worthy. But perhaps your results could be simply put out there on PFO for what they are -- your experiences -- and others can compare and contrast and the debate can continue as we collect, collaborate and corroborate these experiences on a great site ... like this one, say. ;-)

"But perhaps your results could be simply put out there on PFO for what they are -- your experiences -- and others can compare and contrast and the debate can continue as we collect, collaborate and corroborate these experiences on a great site ... like this one, say. ;-)"<br />

<br />

Exactly what I am out to do... fun times are these.<br />

Plue USB cables from Furutech, Cardas, Locus... and digital cables from Black Cat, PAD, Blue Jeans, Locus, etc... yikers!

Don't forget the Firestone Audio Bravo...<br />

<img src="http://www.russandrews.com/images/products/4635l.jpg"></img><br />

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Well another device to add to the melting pot for 24/96 devices.<br />

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Eloise