Jump to content
  • The Computer Audiophile
    The Computer Audiophile

    By The Computer Audiophile •

    Apple Music Lossless Mess Part 2: AirPlay

     

     

    Earlier this month I dug into Apple Music's Lossless and Hi-Res offerings, running several bit perfect rests on the audio output of my Macs and iOS devices. The results were less than stellar (link). This week I dug into Apple Music lossless over AirPlay. One would think that the results would be similar if the only thing changing is the method of transporting the music. However, it's still the Wild West and Apple has made the waters even more muddy with AirPlay. 

     

    Before I get to the details, I want to thank the Bluesound team. This team was very helpful while I was testing and researching AirPlay and Apple Music Lossless. These guys really know what they are doing and are on the leading edge of supporting and developing solutions that may seem simple to the end user, but are quite complex behind the scenes. 

     

    NOTE: Be sure to read the UPDATED parts below, suggested by @Marco Klobas


    Let's Dig In

     

    Just like my previous article, I want to start with some basics. 

     

    What is bit perfect and why should I care? In the simplest terms, bit perfect means that the audio hasn't been changed. The music sent, in this case from Apple Music, into the playback device hasn't been altered. The source is what has been delivered to Apple by the record labels. Apple is just the delivery company.
     
    If you care about high quality, getting the lossless streaming you're paying for from Apple Music, Qobuz, Tidal, Amazon Music, etc... then you should care about bit perfect because without it you have no idea what's happening to your audio. If this isn't a concern for you, no worries. 

     

     

    Testing Methodology 

     

    Testing AirPlay was much more difficult than straight USB connected audio devices. There are AirPlay 1 devices, AirPlay 2 devices, Shairport devices, and a host of applications that don't follow any specific set of standards when sending audio via AirPlay. 

     

    My bit perfect testing consists of a Berkeley Audio Design Alpha DAC Reference Series 3 that identifies and decodes HDCD on all sample rates from 44.1 up through 192 kHz. When an unaltered HDCD music track is played, the HDCD indicator on the DAC is illuminated. The HDCD flag is on the 16th bit for lossless CD files and the 24th bit for high resolution files. Any alteration, DSP, volume leveling, etc... changes this least significant bit and won't enable the HDCD indicator to illuminate on my DAC. Apple Music's lossless audio that I tested was 16 bit / 44.1 kHz and the Hi-Res audio was both 24 bit / 176.4 kHz and 24 bit / 192 kHz. That's the hardware piece. 

     


    Feeding the DAC I used four devices.

     

    • A Berkeley Audio Design Alpha USB. This converts USB audio to AES or S/PDIF on BNC. This device doesn't use AirPlay, but it helps set a baseline for testing.
    • A Bluesound Node 2i that supports AirPlay 2 and uses the newest version of Apple's AirPlay 2 chip. 
    • An Apple AirPort Express 802.11n (2nd Generation) serial number C86HV7S1DV2R. This device supports AirPlay 2 and features optical S/PDIF output over Toslink. 
    • An Apple AirPort Express 802.11n (1st Generation) serial number 6F94552G2U6. This device supports AirPlay 1 and features optical S/PDIF output over Toslink.
    • A Sonore signatureRendu SE Optical. This device supports ShairPort, an open source version of Apple's AirPlay 1.

     


    Sending audio to the above devices I used the following.

     

    • An Apple iPhone 12 Pro running iOS 14.6 and the Apple Music app.
    • An Apple Mac Mini (M1) running macOS 11.4, and Apple Pro Display XDR.
    • An iPad Pro (12.9-inch) (2nd Generation) running iOS 14.6.

     


    With respect to source files, here's what I do. 
     
    I have a list of roughly ten known HDCD albums (although I could use more if needed). Many of these albums were only released as HDCD encoded CDs/files. There is no alternate lossless version. For example, Reference Recordings only releases CDs that are HDCD encoded. Pearl Jam's Live On Two Legs was only released as an HDCD master for its lossless CD version. 
     
    I set a baseline by playing my own local copy of the albums and make sure the HDCD indicator illuminates. I played some Reference Recordings albums through Apple's Music desktop application on macOS and made sure the app could handle bit perfect playback. All was good there. On iOS, I used other apps such as Qobuz, to play the identical music through the identical hardware. All was good through the Qobuz app. Again, there are no alternative versions of these lossless albums. It's the same music on all the services that offer lossless streaming.
     
    Absolutely there are possible holes in my methodology, but I believe I've minimized them as much as possible. If anyone can identify a hole, please let me know and I will retest. 
     

     

    Results Without Context

     

    Here is a list of the results, straight up without any context. 

     

    On iOS

    1. Apple's Music App, lossless streaming content, AirPlay 1 to AirPort Express 1st Gen - bit perfect at 44.1.
    2. Apple's Music App, lossless streaming content, AirPlay 1 to Sonore Rendu (ShairPort) - bit perfect at 44.1.
    3. Apple's Music App, lossless streaming content, AirPlay 2 to Bluesound Node 2i - NOT bit perfect at 44.1.
    4. Apple's Music App, lossless streaming content, AirPlay 2 to AirPort Express 2nd Gen - NOT bit perfect 44.1.

     

    iOS Notable

    1. Qobuz, lossless streaming content, AirPlay 2 to Bluesound Node 2i - bit perfect at 44.1.
    2. Qobuz, lossless streaming content, AirPlay 2 to AirPort Express 2nd Gen - bit perfect at 44.1.
    3. Tidal, lossless streaming content, AirPlay 2 to Bluesound Node 2i - NOT bit perfect at 44.1.
    4. Tidal, lossless streaming content, AirPlay 2 to AirPort Express 2nd Gen - NOT bit perfect 44.1.
    5. Tidal, lossless streaming content, AirPlay 1 to AirPort Express 1st Gen - bit perfect at 44.1.
    6. Apple's Music App, lossless streaming content, USB output with CCK - not bit perfect at 44.1.
    7. Qobuz, lossless streaming content, USB output with CCK - bit perfect at 44.1 and 192.

     


    On macOS

    1. UPDATED: Apple's Music App, lossless streaming content, AirPlay 1 to AirPort Express 1st Gen - bit perfect at 44.1 only if the system-wide AirPlay device is set. If AirPlay device only selected in the Music app, the output is NOT bit perfect.
    2. UPDATED: Apple's Music App, lossless streaming content, AirPlay 1 to Sonore Rendu (ShairPort) - bit perfect at 44.1 only if the system-wide AirPlay device is set. If AirPlay device only selected in the Music app, the output is NOT bit perfect.
    3. UPDATED: Apple's Music App, lossless streaming content, Airplay 2 to Bluesound Node 2i - bit perfect at 44.1 only if the system-wide AirPlay device is set. If AirPlay device only selected in the Music app, the output is NOT bit perfect.
    4. UPDATED: Apple's Music App, lossless streaming content, AirPlay 2 to AirPort Express 2nd Gen - bit perfect at 44.1 only if the system-wide AirPlay device is set. If AirPlay device only selected in the Music app, the output is NOT bit perfect.

     

    macOS Notable

    1. Apple's Music App, lossless local content, AirPlay 1 to AirPort Express 1st Gen - bit perfect at 44.1.
    2. UPDATED: Apple's Music App, lossless local content, AirPlay 2 to Bluesound Node 2i - bit perfect at 44.1 only if the system-wide AirPlay device is set. If AirPlay device only selected in the Music app, the output is NOT bit perfect.
    3. UPDATED: Apple's Music App, lossless local content, AirPlay 2 to AirPort Express 2nd Gen - bit perfect at 44.1 only if the system-wide AirPlay device is set. If AirPlay device only selected in the Music app, the output is NOT bit perfect.
    4. Apple's Music App, lossless local content, USB output - bit perfect at 44.1.

     

     

     

    Setting the system-wide audio device to an AirPlay device is done by selecting the following item in the system menu at the top of the screen.

     

    2.jpg 1.jpg

     

     

     

     

     

    Once selected, it will appear in the Music app this way.

     

    Display in Music App.jpg

     

     


    Results With Some Thoughts And Videos

     

    Please see the UPDATED notes above!

     

    Sending Apple Music lossless content from an iOS device to an AirPlay version 1 device was surprisingly bit perfect, when all other methods were not bit perfect. My original guess was that this is because the AirPlay version 1 Express only accepted Apple Lossless Audio Codec (ALAC), so the sending app had no choice. However, this doesn't square with the fact that the Music app on macOS doesn't send bit perfect lossless audio to the same 1st gen Express. I retested this multiple times to make sure the results were identical on every test. The bottom line is that AirPlay 2 isn't currently receiving bit perfect lossless audio unless the system-wide output is set to an AirPlay 2 device, otherwise it's likely converting it to AAC at 256 kbps. Strangely, the Music app on macOS says it's streaming lossless audio only when sending via AirPlay 2 even if it is lossy because of the output selection only being done in the Music app, but the audio isn't bit perfect this way. The same app when sending via AirPlay 1, doesn't even pretend to send lossless, so it doesn't even display the lossless logo will display the lossless logo only if the system-wide audio device is set to the AirPlay 1 device.

     

    Currently, the only way to stream lossless audio from a streaming service, bit perfectly, over AirPlay is to use an AirPlay version 1 device and use Apple Music, Tidal HiFi, or Qobuz, or an AirPlay 2 device and Qobuz. It seems like Qobuz doesn't care what the device supports, it just send the lossless audio without changing it. Apple Music sees AirPlay 2 and dumbs the music down to lossy AAC.

     

     

    VIDEO One

     

    Here is a video of my testing Apple Music streaming lossless 16 bit / 44.1 kHz audio from an iPad Pro to an AirPort Express (1st gen) via AirPlay 1. You can see several things in this video.

     

    1. Shortly after I press play, the sample rate on the DAC changes to 44.1, the Lock light on the DAC turns green to indicated a solid signal is received, and the HDCD indicator illuminates blue to indicate the DAC recognizes the HDCD flag on the 16th bit of the audio signal. 
    2. At 0:25 into the video you can see the app shows its sending Lossless 16-bit/44.1 kHz ALAC content.
    3. At 0:35 into the video you can see what happens when I adjust the volume. As soon as the volume is not at 100%, bit perfection is lost and the HDCD indicator turns off. When I increase the volume back to 100%, the indicator illuminates blue once again. This is but one example of anything that changes the audio, destroys bit perfection and the HDCD indicator goes off. 
    4. At 0:47 into the video I change tracks. Shortly thereafter you can see the HDCD light go out, while no audio is playing for the split second, then come back on as soon as the track starts. 
    5. At 1:03 into the video you can see as soon as I press pause, the HDCD and Lock indicator lights go out.

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

    VIDEO TWO

     

    Here is a video of my testing Apple Music streaming lossless 16 / 44.1 audio from MacBook Pro to a Bluesound Node 2i via AirPlay 2. You can see several things in this video.

     

    1. The sample rate and Lock indicator are already good because the Node 2i had previously played this content. 
    2. When I press play, the HDCD indicator remains off, indicating something in the audio has changed, destroying the 16th bit.
    3. At 0:23 into the video you can see when I click the Apple Music lossless logo. The app indicates it's receiving lossless audio from Apple Music. The fact that it isn't sending this lossless audio to the AirPlay 2 device is not indicated anywhere for the consumer to see.
    4. Note: When sending this same audio to an AirPlay 1 device from the MacBook Pro, the lossless logo doesn't appear in the now playing window and the app says AAC if you click Get Info.

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

    VIDEO THREE 


    Here is a video of my testing Apple's Music application streaming LOCALLY stored  / my own CD rip lossless 16 / 44.1 audio from MacBook Pro to a Bluesound Node 2i via AirPlay 2. You can see several things in this video.

     

    1. The sample rate and Lock indicators are correct. 
    2. The HDCD indicator never illuminates, indicating the audio sent is not bit perfect. 
    3. I also adjust the volume up and down to make sure it's at 100%. 

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

    VIDEO FOUR


    Here is a video of my testing Apple's Music application streaming LOCALLY stored  / my own CD rip lossless 16 / 44.1 audio from MacBook Pro to an AirPort Express 1st Gen via AirPlay 1. You can see several things in this video.

     

    1. The sample rate and lock indicator correctly adjust upon playback.
    2. The HDCD indicator correctly illuminates upon playback, indicating bit perfect audio.
    3. At 0:50 into the video you can see the track is local 44.1 AIFF file. 

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

    VIDEO FIVE

     

    Here is a video of my testing Apple Music streaming lossless 16 bit / 44.1 kHz audio from a MacBook Pro to an AirPort Express (1st gen) via AirPlay 1. You can see several things in this video.

     

    1. Sample rate and Lock indicator adjust correctly.
    2. HDCD indicator doesn't illuminate upon playback.
    3. At 0:40 into the video you can see the Get Info screen showing AAC audio being sent. This appears to be the audio sent from Apple Music, not what is sent behind the scenes to the AirPlay device, even though AAc is in fact what's sent to the AirPlay 1 device as well. 

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

    VIDEO SIX

     

    Here is a video of my testing Apple's Music application streaming LOCALLY stored  / my own CD rip lossless 16 / 44.1 audio from MacBook Pro to an Alpha USB via USB. This is just a baseline video showing Apple's Music app is fully capable of bit perfect output via USB.

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

    VIDEO SEVEN

     

    Here is a video of my testing Apple Music application streaming lossless audio 16 / 44.1 audio from MacBook Pro to an Alpha USB via USB. You can see several things in this video.

     

    1. The video shows all my settings correct in the app. 
    2. At 0:40 into the video I hit play and the HDCD indicator goes on for a short period, then continues to blink on/off periodically throughout the video. This indicates the audio fluctuates between bit perfect and not bit perfect. 
    3. At 0:50 into the video you can see the lossless logo clicked and Apple Music displaying Lossless 16-bit 44.1 kHz ALAC as the audio stream.  

     

     

     

     

     

     

     


    Wrap Up

    There you have the complete soup sandwich that is Apple Music lossless streaming over AirPlay versions 1 and 2. 

     

    I'd like to note that some people have said my bit perfect testing isn't really that big of a deal because Apple is streaming lossless audio and they don't care if it isn't bit perfect because it's better than the lossy stuff. After doing my research, I can tell you the "lossless" may be the exact same thing as the lossy, so people really should care about bit perfect playback. If we don't know where the digital signal processing is happening, we don't know that it's even lossless. 

     

    If you see anything in my tests that you think isn't right, please let me know. The last thing I want to do is cause even more confusion with misinformation. I believe everything here is 100% correct. 
     

     

     

     

     

    Go to articles

    User Feedback

    Recommended Comments



    tgp-2
    16 minutes ago, MgP2804 said:

    alac 44.1/16 to multicast by adding a single airplay 1 device. how did you measure this?

     

    i'm looking at network traffic using the terminal app 'bmon' (in this case, it's installed on the Mac, and I'm looking at RX received data from Apple Music / cloud to the Mac, and also TX transmit data from the Mac to the remote AirPlay receivers)

     

    have also used Wireshark (I/O Graph)

     

    there are some example graphs and description in the write-up I linked to earlier

    Share this comment

    Link to comment
    Share on other sites
    MgP2804

    great and this is super interesting. whireshark  i have myself. many thanks for providing this info!

    Share this comment

    Link to comment
    Share on other sites
    actuel audio

    I play Music to a system via the Finder Sound menu on latest macOS on a Mac Mini. I had been playing to an Airport Express 2 (flat, like a white Apple TV 2) with it set to fully updated firmware to Airplay 2 since playing Music from the Mac via the finder Sound menu, results in the best outcome. But I recently hooked up a Belkin Soundform Connect (which I think had a stumble out of the gate but, other than the NFC tag not working, requiring me entering the code, boo hoo, went on to my network as well as Home app east peasy). 

    The Belkin Soundform Connect is fine. It is Airplay 2 but, when playing via the Mac Mini, it is identical to the Airport Express. Which makes sense. So, I can play 16/44 Apple Music from Mac to the Soundform Connect. It is most likely not bit perfect but it is lossless if the volume on all but the amp is set to max. When I switch over to latest iOS, I can sense a slight decline. Probably now, it is, AAC 256. But, you know, I am OK with that! It gives my ears a break.
    When I open the iTunes Remote app  on iOS and play my ALAC files from my Mac, it is back to superb CD quality again. Well, because, I control it from iOS but the data is coming from the Mac. 

    Note that the Soundform app is helpful to link to the Connect. It does not do much but it seems to have a somewhat separate volume control (what is that, number 3?!) Even though I had all volumes, except my amp, up all the way, upon adding it to the app, the volume was about 30%. Maybe Belkin does this to not blast the inexperienced. But, when I turned it to full, it did seem to bring it all back to a really good amount of gusto (sorry, whatever the term is for that).

    I also suspect that since the Soundform Connect is simply a newer device, it seems more robust with audio. 
    I buried the lead until the end: On that ancient iTunes Remote app on iOS, when you bring up the Airplay menu, it shows the Connect and my other airplay devices. Since I am just playing in one room, it is single check mark to that device. But in the upper left, is an option for Multiple. When you choose that, the app becomes like an Airplay 2 only app. Allowing you to play to multiple devices. With a check mark in a circle! Hmm, so the second I choose Multiple and other Airplay 2 devices, does the music change from ALAC to AAC? This is the question and would answer other questions here too.

     

    IMG_3426.png

     

    IMG_3427.png

     

    One small mystery: all my HomePods are missing from Remote. Will have to figure out why.

    Share this comment

    Link to comment
    Share on other sites
    actuel audio

    I decided to set up all my Apple Expresses V2 as Airplay 1 receivers via ethernet. This forces 16/44 lossless from iOS, my main player of Apple Music streams. I also turned off wi-fi and; made it static IP and ipv6 as link local only in the hopes that I could voice control it via Siri.

    But I think the last firmware Airplay 2 update seems to be the only option to use voice. The Expresses do show up on the Home app in iOS and iPad OS with volume and other controls but show the no response message. Which I think is the problem with Siri voice control on them. 

    Since I prefer to just know they will always be 16/44, and I have no need for Airplay 2 in various rooms at once in a small home, I'm just leaving them set as Airplay 1 and, as for Siri, oh well… will just have to use my fingers on a screen. No biggie.

    One thing, and I knew this but forgot, is that when you do a bunch of changes like this you must do a hard restart and reload in your settings. Hard restart is the middle option where it stays plugged in but you press the small button in for 5-6 seconds. Soft and Factory are not what you need to do. So if you are messing around, after each firmware update or changes where the Express is amber light as it loads them in, once you get the green light, do a hard restart. More amber, some green, then amber and finally solid green. This means it is most stable and set up to work right.
    https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT201945

    And finally, again, the macOS Airfoil app overcomes most of this since it is an exclusive mode app. So, I can play to Airplay 1 and Airplay 2 speakers at the same time from a mac. The developer wrote this to me: “Airfoil transmits audio using the standards of each protocol: AirPlay specifies a 16-bit stereo Apple Lossless stream, at a 44.1 kHz sample rate, and Chromecast devices need us to send it 48 kHz PCM audio so it's properly received and played back there. So Airfoil will use as lossless an audio format as you could hope for while remaining compatible with any device you're connecting to.”

    Why Apple cannot do this is a mystery.
    I returned the Soundform Connect. I just did not need it.

     

    Share this comment

    Link to comment
    Share on other sites
    actuel audio

    Just another side note trick on this.
    I was wondering, how can I get 24 bit recordings from Apple Music to my Yamaha MusicCast speakers. Sometimes I just want them and not the whole blasted system. I don’t have a server, other than iTunes Remote app from Mac which is 16/44. From iOS to MusicCast speakers it is the same problem as written about here.

    The solution is to send it from another device. But not Apple iOS as that will likely be AAC 256…. Instead, I play Apple Music on my Apple TV 4K to my Yamaha via HDMI and then link my MusicCast speakers. I can silence the main AVR speakers. Presto, 24/48 recordings playing from Apple Music via MusicCast to the 20s as stereo pair.
    Most importantly, I can control the Apple TV with my phone, just like Spotify Connect, using Apple Music Control Other Speakers option.
    I bet this method could be used on other systems that allow above 16/44 like Denon, et all.

    I could also just plug an iOS device strait into a DAC and then RCA into the AVR and then out via MusicCast but, then, no remote control. But I would get 24/96 or 24/192 to the MusicCast speakers. If the recording is at those.

    Share this comment

    Link to comment
    Share on other sites
    Bevok
    2 hours ago, actuel audio said:

    Just another side note trick on this.
    I was wondering, how can I get 24 bit recordings from Apple Music to my Yamaha MusicCast speakers. Sometimes I just want them and not the whole blasted system. I don’t have a server, other than iTunes Remote app from Mac which is 16/44. From iOS to MusicCast speakers it is the same problem as written about here.

    The solution is to send it from another device. But not Apple iOS as that will likely be AAC 256…. Instead, I play Apple Music on my Apple TV 4K to my Yamaha via HDMI and then link my MusicCast speakers. I can silence the main AVR speakers. Presto, 24/48 recordings playing from Apple Music via MusicCast to the 20s as stereo pair.
    Most importantly, I can control the Apple TV with my phone, just like Spotify Connect, using Apple Music Control Other Speakers option.
    I bet this method could be used on other systems that allow above 16/44 like Denon, et all.

    I could also just plug an iOS device strait into a DAC and then RCA into the AVR and then out via MusicCast but, then, no remote control. But I would get 24/96 or 24/192 to the MusicCast speakers. If the recording is at those.

    The Apple TV is a great streaming experience and for me the best part is the Atmos content. Just be aware that it resamples everything to 24/48, no issue for me but it bit perfect is important to you might be a factor, and you won’t deliver the higher sample rates (need to use usb from iOS etc).

    Share this comment

    Link to comment
    Share on other sites
    actuel audio
    9 minutes ago, Bevok said:

    The Apple TV is a great streaming experience and for me the best part is the Atmos content. Just be aware that it resamples everything to 24/48, no issue for me but it bit perfect is important to you might be a factor, and you won’t deliver the higher sample rates (need to use usb from iOS etc).

    Did you not read what I wrote? Not about Atmos. 24 bit is not a resample if the source was that. Since it does not upsample, no problem for 14. The advantage is convenience at 24 bit wireless via MusicCast from Apple Music. I am not a pedantic martinet audiophile.

    Share this comment

    Link to comment
    Share on other sites
    Jud
    8 minutes ago, actuel audio said:

    Did you not read what I wrote? Not about Atmos…. I am not a pedantic martinet audiophile.


    Well, not a martinet audiophile, I guess. 😉

    Share this comment

    Link to comment
    Share on other sites
    Bevok
    2 hours ago, Bevok said:

    The Apple TV is a great streaming experience and for me the best part is the Atmos content. Just be aware that it resamples everything to 24/48, no issue for me but it bit perfect is important to you might be a factor, and you won’t deliver the higher sample rates (need to use usb from iOS etc).

     

    2 hours ago, actuel audio said:

    Did you not read what I wrote? Not about Atmos. 24 bit is not a resample if the source was that. Since it does not upsample, no problem for 14. The advantage is convenience at 24 bit wireless via MusicCast from Apple Music. I am not a pedantic martinet audiophile.

    I did read what you wrote. You are incorrect in that it does upsample to 24 bit. Not sure what you mean by 14? I agree on convenience - as I said resampling is not an issue for me. I'm not a pedantic martinet audiophile either, as you'd have noted if you had read what I wrote :-)

    Share this comment

    Link to comment
    Share on other sites
    Audiophile Neuroscience
    4 hours ago, Jud said:
    4 hours ago, actuel audio said:

    …. I am not a pedantic martinet audiophile.


    Well, not a martinet audiophile, I guess. 😉

     

    Lets not be nit-picky 🤣

    Share this comment

    Link to comment
    Share on other sites
    actuel audio
    19 hours ago, Bevok said:

     

    I did read what you wrote. You are incorrect in that it does upsample to 24 bit. Not sure what you mean by 14? I agree on convenience - as I said resampling is not an issue for me. I'm not a pedantic martinet audiophile either, as you'd have noted if you had read what I wrote :-)

    As usual, forums mess up intended textual communication. Was not directed at you. Just a general PMA comment. I got you are not a PMA…
    BTW: Where is a good chart or source for seeing how up or down sampling impacts audio for troglodytes? I may have transposed them. But my understanding is that (PMA trigger warning!), it really does not matter for non PMAs, especially in the case of the Apple audio chip set that handles it. Superbly, apparently.

    Share this comment

    Link to comment
    Share on other sites
    Jud
    3 hours ago, actuel audio said:

    As usual, forums mess up intended textual communication. Was not directed at you. Just a general PMA comment. I got you are not a PMA…
    BTW: Where is a good chart or source for seeing how up or down sampling impacts audio for troglodytes? I may have transposed them. But my understanding is that (PMA trigger warning!), it really does not matter for non PMAs, especially in the case of the Apple audio chip set that handles it. Superbly, apparently.


    If you can work out a way to listen to both Apple and something bit perfect, and you hear no difference, wonderful. It doesn’t really matter what anyone else thinks.

     

    By the way, changing 16 to 24 bit isn’t what is usually thought of as up- or downsampling. I won’t bother to get into the technical aspects unless you would like.

     

    It’s changing 44.1 or whatever else to 48 that is sample rate conversion. Some folks like to do conversion by particular methods that they believe give better sound, or not convert sample rates. But as I mentioned, if you don’t hear a difference with the conversion to 48kbps that Apple does, that’s just fine. You’re the one who has to be satisfied.

     

    Edit: Oh by the way, no chart necessary. Digital audio requires the use of filters, and upsampling makes it easier to use good filters. That’s it.

    Share this comment

    Link to comment
    Share on other sites
    actuel audio

    Interesting article from Darko that relates.

    “We should remain cognizant that the Apple TV resamples all audio to 48kHz before it exits the HDMI port on the back. And if it didn’t, most TV operating systems would. That strikes hi-res streams from the menu. However, we should not let bit-perfect idealism cloud our judgement: any hit to sound quality wrought by the resampling of 44.1kHz CD-quality audio to 48kHz will be dwarfed by changes to room acoustics, loudspeakers, loudspeaker position and amplifier.”

    I agree.

    https://darko.audio/2023/12/why-bother-with-apple-music-when-we-have-tidal-qobuz/

    Share this comment

    Link to comment
    Share on other sites
    actuel audio

    I'm still messing around with my 2022 Apple TV 4K with maximizing audio out of it (other than Atmos). I think Apple might have made Apple TVs a bit smarter with audio. Maybe in a recent update? It has been gospel that ATVs set all audio up or down to 48 kHz. As Mr. D said. But (and maybe this was always the case or with an update) if I play Apple Music ATV app on my ATV 4K, it seems to send the PCM as it is. So if it is 16/44, that is what you get. If it is 24/48, you get that. 
    As long as it is strait HDMI to an AVR which in turn plays it out.
    I bet if it detects a TV, it does a resample to match TV land.
    Of course, if it is a 24/96, then it will play as a 24/48. Since most Apple songs are 16/44 or 24/48, this kind of makes sense and was easy enough for the Apple Music on ATV OS developer to implement.
    I also recently played a rare AAC version of an album on ATV Apple Music too. I guess they never got a lossless version… 
    But I do not have the right equipment to unequivocally confirm this. I am going by what my various systems are saying and what Apple Music is reporting via Control Other Speaker option on iOS and via Apple Music on ATV OS.

    Share this comment

    Link to comment
    Share on other sites
    actuel audio

    Did Apple just remove the ability to downgrade Airport Express v2 firmware from macOS on Airport Utility? I went to show someone how to downgrade to Airplay 1 and, it was missing this option. It just updated it to latest. When you click on Version number, no menu to downgrade to older version appears. Just more current version digits.

    So I went to iOS and it still had that option (a menu of all the previous firmwares) and I downgraded to 7.6.9 for Airplay 1.

    It was weird. Well, whatever you do, don't assume clicking on update firmware option on the Mac version will give you options. It won't. Stick with iOS Airport Utility for now.

    Share this comment

    Link to comment
    Share on other sites
    tgp-2

    summary in above linked Apple forum post is based on output from third party app using BluOS API, not direct observation of network traffic etc.

     

    i checked again ... as far as i can tell, there's been no change ... Airplay 2 buffered streams are still lossy AAC 256kbps

     

    for reference, my latest summary linked below ...

     

    tgp-2 Airplay summary

    Share this comment

    Link to comment
    Share on other sites
    actuel audio
    16 hours ago, tgp-2 said:

    summary in above linked Apple forum post is based on output from third party app using BluOS API, not direct observation of network traffic etc.

     

    i checked again ... as far as i can tell, there's been no change ... Airplay 2 buffered streams are still lossy AAC 256kbps

     

    for reference, my latest summary linked below ...

     

    tgp-2 Airplay summary

    Well, this is what I thought! Thanks for checking. I think Apple will not fix this and, if they do, it will be Airport 3.

    Share this comment

    Link to comment
    Share on other sites


    Create an account or sign in to comment

    You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

    Create an account

    Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

    Register a new account

    Sign in

    Already have an account? Sign in here.

    Sign In Now



sonore

aurender

Lumin

HEAP

Schiit

SOtM

Mytek

mutec

uptone

jcat

sotm usa

audioquest

Taiko Audio

Teddy Pardo

Eversolo




×
×
  • Create New...