Digital Vinyl: An Introduction

Great article and variety of music, Igor!

One correction... The song portion by Rush is from "Different Strings", not "Natural Sciences" as indicated.

Keep up the good work!

Thank Snowdog57. Yes, you are right and it is the second track on the second side of the album ("Different Strings"). I'll fix it. Thank you for the correction.

Pure Vinyl Club

Listen to short demos of the LP Rip

and share your experience and observations.

LOST IN TRANSLATION?

Some people argue that sonic qualities get lost in the conversion process from vinyl to hires digital file including the playback situation with a DAC involved.

Would anyone - the author of the article as well? - be able to elaborate on the validity of this "lost in translation" claim?

LOST IN TRANSLATION?

 

Some people argue that sonic qualities get lost in the conversion process from vinyl to hires digital file including the playback situation with a DAC involved.

 

Would anyone - the author of the article as well? - be able to elaborate on the validity of this "lost in translation" claim?

Do you have a source for this argument? I think it depends a lot on the details of what equipment was used for both ripping and playing as well as the details of the actual process they used. Thanks, Larry

Do you have a source for this argument? I think it depends a lot on the details of what equipment was used for both ripping and playing as well as the details of the actual process they used. Thanks, Larry

I believe the transfer from vinyl to digital is successful. This belief is supported by the files in this thread and other transfers I have listened to. Besides, German Studio Magazin had a nice story on analog vs digital transfer in their no. 10/2016 issue:

ADC comparison in Studio Magazine 10/2016

So I am a believer in successful analog-digital transfers, and this belief is supported by convincing specs of the hardware and software involvere in such conversions.

However, in a Norwegian hifi forum I listed these pro digitising arguments, and the consensus on this site seems to be that digitising vinyl leaves a room for improvement; pure analog is better than involving digitising, according to users on this forum.

So I wondered if the author of this article or other people have met these kinds of arguments previously. And what is the best answers to those who mistrust digitising vinyl?

LOST IN TRANSLATION?

 

Some people argue that sonic qualities get lost in the conversion process from vinyl to hires digital file including the playback situation with a DAC involved.

 

Would anyone - the author of the article as well? - be able to elaborate on the validity of this "lost in translation" claim?

Hi svart-hvitt. That's a good question. I think in some ways flawed (losses) is not only a record from vinyl to digital, but any other recording the natural sound signal in the analog or digital domain. Similarly, as an playing absolutely any content, digital or analog, it is saved is not important in what source.For example, a computer file with Hi-Res (WAV) is a 100% quality (fidelity). The end result is that you hear with your ears when you play this file on your audio system will never be equal to 100%. Too many elements are involved in the process (software, hardware, all kinds of digital and analog cables, the quality of power source in your audio system, and much more). Each of these elements is not dependent on the quality, would introduce losses into the final result. Depending on the quality of your path you will have output of 50%, 60%, 30%, 70%, ..... Even if you have a super level system Top Hi End, you will not get 100% of the potential of this file.

The same is true for the LP. If the potential of what is recorded on an LP is 100%, then each element of the system, which plays this record will bring deterioration, loss of static and dynamic characteristics of the final result, which in the end we hear. Depending on which method of digitizing we choose what software and hardware we use, we get a different outcome. But to get LP-rip to 100% capacity of what is recorded in the LP, neither theoretically nor practically impossible. We can only make an effort to minimize, reduce losses, which are absolutely unavoidable.

If someone thinks that it is possible to obtain an equal or even better quality when digitizing analog vinyl, it's just an illusion. It is difficult to compare these two different processes, because they are really different. In one uses mechanical reflection and the other a more complex processes reconstruction s-t-r-e-t-c-h-i-n-g in r-e-a-l t-i-m-e wave from the i.n.f.o.r.m.a.t.i.o.n that was previously r.e.g.i.s.t.e.r.e.d on the digital memory.

But it's all very subjective. For example, my friends brought me their LPs for digitization. Later they come for their LPs and asked to listen to the digital version. And they are always surprised how many nuances and details are never heard when listening to the LP on their TT. It all depends on the method that you use and the quality of the equipment.

Similarly, there is another problem. Friends take digital copies of their LPs, to listen to them on their audio systems. They complain that what they have heard from me and what they hear on their setups is very different. And this is actually a real problem for me. Only a few of my friends, our LPrips sound is excellent and they can fully enjoy all the benefits of such a recording method.

Listened to Yes sample. It seems that the speed is a bit slower than on my TT.

Recently a friend of mine showed me this post and asked what straycat meant. I replied that straykat used very good TT and it would be strange if he had heard a different result. In fact, I know quite a bit DACs, which would be able to approach the speed of attack phase to the good TT setup.

So when I asked Chris to listen to my demo samples, I knew exactly what would be the result. Knowing what kind of experience listening to Chris is, and what is now the equipment used for this, I had an accurate understanding of what it is really very like.

Pure Vinyl Club

Listen to short demos of the LP Rip

and share your experience and observations.

What I meant was quite simply that the platter of your TT spins at slightly slower speed than mine. At least on that Yes sample. Coming back to the art of ripping matter it would be interesting to hear about your chain for making your rips. I understand that you must have hono preamp that amplifies the signal coming from the cartridge but without RIAA curve applied. Do you use ChannelD Seta L/H preamp for this or something else? It would have to be the preamp capable of load impedance control. Seems like Seta is the natural choice (also recommended gear by Stereophile) but maybe there are other interesting alternatives that you tested and can recommend.

And we do. The second half of the project is a record on the best tape (on professional Studer). Many members Pure Vinyl Club prefer it this way, but this is not a topic of discussion here on the CA. I understand some prejudice against the vinyl ripper, I also have a little:-)) Soon I will give more technical information about the process and equipment, which are involved in the project and I hope that you will change your attitude to this. Please take the time to listen to it a few demos, maybe you will like it.

P.S. TASCAM DA-3000. I do not think that is sufficient to quality digitizing vinyl. The equipment that we use cost over $ 50K, and this amount is growing all the time. Only MC cartridge $ 15K.

I have to disagree with you on the Tascam DA-3000. I have it for about two years now and it does a fantastic job digitizing records playing from my top-spec LP12. The greatest thing about it is that it has a wordclock input, so I'm connecting my dCS clock to it when recording. Replay of course is also clocked with the same clock signal, which is ideal.

Regularly I'm recording at single DSD, but since I recently bought a dCS Rossini I will be changing to 2x DSD; still have to try that and see if it's an audible upgrade. At single DSD you'd be hard pressed to tell the difference between the original record and the recording. Warmth, clarity, dynamics and spatial quality are all really excellent.

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Yes the service is called murfie

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Serious question- is there a service or anyone out there willing to rip vinyl for a price? It would seem legal.

 

Specifically- I would like to buy some Sigur Ros and Radiohead on vinyl, and then pay someone to rip that if they do it well. I have heard both on vinyl and they sound awesome compared to CD.

 

It would seem that the quality of the ripping set up of vinyl has much more impact versus the mostly clerical task of ripping shiny discs.

Yes it's call murfie

Sent from my STV100-1 using Computer Audiophile mobile app

Yes it's call murfie

 

Sent from my STV100-1 using Computer Audiophile mobile app

How is the quality of vinyl rips? Are there many rips??

What I have experienced when I have previously downloaded random vinyl rips from various locations is bad quality. However, my eyes were opened to how great this can be based on the samples provided here which sound great.

That might be a great site if the quality is good.

I sent all my Cd and records over to them murfie music

They are top notch !

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I have to disagree with you on the Tascam DA-3000. I have it for about two years now and it does a fantastic job digitizing records playing from my top-spec LP12. The greatest thing about it is that it has a wordclock input, so I'm connecting my dCS clock to it when recording. Replay of course is also clocked with the same clock signal, which is ideal.

 

Regularly I'm recording at single DSD, but since I recently bought a dCS Rossini I will be changing to 2x DSD; still have to try that and see if it's an audible upgrade. At single DSD you'd be hard pressed to tell the difference between the original record and the recording. Warmth, clarity, dynamics and spatial quality are all really excellent.

 

 

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You understood me wrong. I did not say that Tascam DA-3000 is bad interface. I mean that this is not enough if you want to get maximum results. And the best result you can get only with the software Pure Vinyl. But in this case you will not be able to use a Tascam DA-3000, because the key advantage of using PV is to record the signal from the LP in its pure form (flat), without compensation RIAA curve. Adding RIAA curve occurs in the software, in the PCM. DSD for that absolutely does not fit.

In addition, you need to have a phono preamp with a flat output or a good studio microphone preamp. I use MC Phono Preamplifier Channel D Seta L , which is specially designed to achieve the best results with the software PV. It has many unprecedented characteristics in scale the global audio market. Here are just two of the many unique features of this wonderful pre-amplifier:

1. Ultra wide linear signal bandwidth (DC to 5 MHz!) delivers stunning improvements in smoothness, clarity, definition and 3-D imaging.

2. Fast-responding front end gain stage with a slew rate of over 500 volts per microsecond.

But if you use the standard way to listen and to digitize vinyl, the Tascam DA-3000 will be a very good choice, especially in DSD.

Pure Vinyl Club

Listen to short demos of the LP Rip

and share your experience and observations.

You understood me wrong. I did not say that Tascam DA-3000 is bad interface. I mean that this is not enough if you want to get maximum results. And the best result you can get only with the software Pure Vinyl. But in this case you will not be able to use a Tascam DA-3000, because the key advantage of using PV is to record the signal from the LP in its pure form (flat), without compensation RIAA curve. Adding RIAA curve occurs in the software, in the PCM. DSD for that absolutely does not fit.

In addition, you need to have a phono preamp with a flat output or a good studio microphone preamp. I use MC Phono Preamplifier Channel D Seta L , which is specially designed to achieve the best results with the software PV. It has many unprecedented characteristics in scale the global audio market. Here are just two of the many unique features of this wonderful pre-amplifier:

1. Ultra wide linear signal bandwidth (DC to 5 MHz!) delivers stunning improvements in smoothness, clarity, definition and 3-D imaging.

2. Fast-responding front end gain stage with a slew rate of over 500 volts per microsecond.

 

But if you use the standard way to listen and to digitize vinyl, the Tascam DA-3000 will be a very good choice, especially in DSD.

 

Pure Vinyl Club

 

Listen to short demos of the LP Rip

and share your experience and observations.

OK, I understand you now. [emoji4]

Sent from my HTC One_M8 using Computer Audiophile mobile app

What I meant was quite simply that the platter of your TT spins at slightly slower speed than mine. At least on that Yes sample. Coming back to the art of ripping matter it would be interesting to hear about your chain for making your rips. I understand that you must have hono preamp that amplifies the signal coming from the cartridge but without RIAA curve applied. Do you use ChannelD Seta L/H preamp for this or something else? It would have to be the preamp capable of load impedance control. Seems like Seta is the natural choice (also recommended gear by Stereophile) but maybe there are other interesting alternatives that you tested and can recommend.

Straycat, thank you for the clarification. Regarding speed. Once again, I will check the disk speed accuracy in TT using strobo.

I have previously provided a list of equipment that we use now for digitizing vinyl. Perhaps you have not seen this post.

LP Hygiene - Klaudio KD-CLN-LP200.

TT - Acoustic Signature Storm + SME V-series + MC Cartridge Clearaudio Goldfinger Statement V2.

MC Phono Preamplifier Channel D Seta L.

ADC Antelope Audio Pure2 (Mastering AD/DA Converter & Clock) + Audiophile 10M (10 MHz Rubidium Atomic Reference Generator).

Apple Mac Mini (only SSD, UpTone Mac mini DC-Conversion / Linear Fan Controller Kit (MMK), powered UpTone JS-2 Linear Power Supply) > Curious USB Regen Link > USB Regen (powered UpTone JS-2) > Curious USB Regen Link.

Monitoring and playback with Antelope Audio Zodiac Platinum + Audiophile 10M Atomic Clock + UpTone Regen + Curious USB. Cables (High Fidelity Cables, Kharma, Vovox, Combak Harmonix, Acoustic Revive, Transparent Audio, Shunyata Research).

Pure Vinyl Club

Listen to short demos of the LP Rip

and share your experience and observations.

Thank you for this Information. Now with regards to ripping specific LPs do you use Individual SRA settings per album or one SRA setting for all albums? As we know throughout the years records have been cut at various SRA/VTA so what optimal ripping I reckon settings should be adjusted accordingly. For example I read somewhere that before 1962/63 cutters were run at 15d VTA.

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Igor- Glad to see this thread. Ive bought a ChannelD Seta model L and am in the market for an AD/DA. Do you have plans to try the RME Adi-2 pro in your process? Also- do you utilize this system only for ripping and playback of digitized vinyl, or do you also listen to your vinyl "live" through the Seta/Antelope Pure2?/pure vinyl software? Could you comment on any issues with listening to vinyl live in this setup? Thanks.

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