How to waste an enormous amount of money ...

Yes, unbelievably bad - this was the sort of nonsense you got in the 1980's ... yet here in 2022 this is seriously offered as a solution. And people wonder what I've got against, some, high end rigs,

Someone mentioned Nagra sounding good at Munich - and here is a clip of apparently the same rig, elsewhere,

Yes, very nice ... can't pick an issue on casual listening - the type of SQ to aim for ...

Just curious....how is it that you can detect "issues" from a rig in a Youtube video?

Either the music sounds realistic - or, it sounds like a hifi pounding away. If the latter, then the system has issues ...

14 hours ago, fas42 said:

Either the music sounds realistic - or, it sounds like a hifi pounding away. If the latter, then the system has issues ...

I don't believe that the audio quality in a Youtube video would allow you to make that determination.

10 hours ago, EdmontonCanuck said:

 

I don't believe that the audio quality in a Youtube video would allow you to make that determination.

Do some tests ... pick a few YT clips, some of real music playing, and some of an audio system working; and have a disinterested person pick which is which, when they can't see the screen...

A good example of how some gear which can be together at one moment, in one situation, can very easily fall short when some, most likely tiny, thing is not set up correctly. The following is a combo which I've pointed to before, as providing high quality sound ... here, it's not happening,

Note, the sound is the actual system playing, even though the video jumps around - the comments of the video make this clear.

What's wrong with it? Well, it sounds like a hifi! If your thing is to have that sort of presentation, that's OK - but it's not accurate to what's on the recording; the quality of naturalness is absent, and therefore it's a fail ...

This is interesting - a clear example of how a system changes its SQ through a track ... taken at the Munich 2020 show, on the Nagra rig which was a highlight of the event, for many people,

Can't pick it? ... Listen to the piano, say, at about 1 minute in; and then at the 4 minute mark - should be obvious, if you have, ahem, audiophile ears, .

What's going on? Appears to be sourced from the reel to reel - is that the cause? Hard to say, but some part of the setup is changing its characteristics as it sails through the song - this is a bugger, quite often, to track down and resolve; but is an essential part of system debugging ... .

That Nagra rig, , is providing some good demos of what capable playback is like,

In spite of wandering around with a camera phone, casually recording as he goes, the sense of musical event being reproduced is fully evident; no excuses have be given for what one is hearing, at any moment ... why? Because all the necessary cues are in place, for the ear/brain to connect with what the musicians are doing ...

An interesting one, picked as Best of the Show,

Obviously LP, surface noise is too evident; but still no cigar, for other reasons ... okay, very spacious, full sound - but ...

There's a hard edge to the SQ; should be sweeter, 'sing' more - the voice should be completely enticing, have a warmth to it ... which is not quite there. That last little bit can be very hard to get right, and if successful, then indeed magic is in the room, .

Okay, found a clip of some really top notch digital sound ... using the best Lampizator, which is sort of what one needs to do, so far in the evolution of audio reproduction ...

This is the sort of thing to aspire to... can't find anything wrong, here.

So nice, thought I would put up another one, from the same channel,

Shows all the markers of competent SQ ... you know it when you've got it .

Yep, that Nagra combo again, ,

A very good example of how a system should project all the things that matter, well away the "sweet spot" ... this is good Listing In Another Room standard.

And how to stuff it up ...

How expensive is that setup? Hmmm? Listen to the drums ... they are completely, wrong ...

This reminds of so much "high end" I've heard over the years - miles from being "accurate", but the bling factor must mean they are good .

Why not? .... A dose of vegan audio playback,

Came across a reference to the Gustard X26 Pro DAC as being very good value for money, and tracked down a recent upload of someone's setup, using such,

Nice. Not perfect, but delivering a solid, rich sound, with plenty of space ...

An interesting one ... comparing two everything in one box units,

For me, quite an easy choice - the Hegel is very distinctly superior to the Arcam, at least in this setup ... so, why do I say this, ?

Came across comments about the infamous Hiraga "Le Monstre Amp", using huge power supplies - good examples on YT, this was a spiffy one, done by a mad experimenter, if you look at all the videos on his channel ,

What a "miserable" 8 watts can do ... meat, plus finesse ...

Someone just mentioned these speakers- and found this clip of what should be good sound,

All the usual failings of high end gear not being accurate are on show ... note how each separate musical segment sounds the same; the signature of the setup is overwhelming. And the choked quality, say with vocals. No air or space. This is why I have little time for what some consider, 'special' equipment - if it hasn't been optimised ...

Okay, what's wrong here?

High end components, by a well regarded dealer ... hmmm ...

Answer: No space. Listen to what the track should sound like, even via one them terrible YT clips, - and the problem is obvious; all the low level detail which gives atmosphere to the track is missing, and poor transients. The sound elements are all squashed together in the above replay, as if all the musicians are bundled into a tiny room - I couldn't listen to the above rig for more than a few minutes, if I was in the actual room.

So, we are still a long way from any HiFi peaking, if a high end dealer can post something like this as an example of what the goal is.

Chanced upon this clip - music starts at 14:20, of a home setup recorded on a mobile phone,

So much is right here - showing that premium components can certainly pull their weight, if carefully chosen and assembled.

And another one, with much lower cost setup,

Presentation of the space in these sort of recordings is excellent; the sense of size of the musical elements is well projected.

Talking of doing surround sound, came across this one,

The electronics and speakers are nominally of a very high standard, spoken of as being, by some, "as good as it gets". But this is a fail ... it's just not convincing; the power, size and grandeur of what this would sound like on competent playback is missing. This is where the audio world keeps flailing; it can't project the intensity of what live music is like, unless lots of extra care is taken with optimising of, well, everything. So, still waiting ...

These were mentioned as being of a high standard, at this show,

Nope. Too much signature - sounds like speakers creating a spacious sound, when it doesn't exist on the recording. And the more you listen, the more flaws in the SQ are evident - I would find this setup, in the state as presented here, quite irritating to listen to ...

Also from that Audio Fest ... why not, the real thing!

Quick question, what's the difference between these two?!

Okay, now you know why vocalists use microphones, etc  ...

Finally, how well does a decent recording setup capture, and high quality playback reproduce the nuances ... ?

Hmmm ... nice try, but no cigar. In particular, the qualities of the sound of the vocalist ...