24/96 on Windows 7 -need clarification

[mcatucci]

First off, what a great site! I have read every word of the FAQ's and browsed the boards for a while now.

 

I am trying to complete a new setup that will allow me to once again enjoy music without annoying the wife ;-) I have a Windows 7 PC with an onboard SPDIF coax out that I am using to send music to a Peachtree Nova. I've used the USB and the sound is incredible but now I want to hear what 24/96 sounds like and that can only be achieved by using the SPDIF. I did go in and set the SPDIF port to use 24/96. My question is:

 

How can I determine if the Nova is actually getting 24/96? Dave at Peachtree mentioned on the phone that I need to use a program like Bitperfect so that I do not have to constantly change the settings on my PC. I am at a loss here as I never used this type of software. Do I need to control how Windows sends audio out?

 

Any help on this final step that is throwing me for a loop is much appreciated.

 

[The Computer Audiophile]

Hi mcatucci - First, welcome to CA. Second, thanks for the kind words about the site.

 

You may want to read this article about Windows 7 and different settings options for bit perfect playback.

 

http://www.computeraudiophile.com/content/Windows-7-Audio-J-River-Media-Center-14-Configuration

 

 

 

[mcatucci]

Thank you for the reply Chris. I actually read that article last night and it was very helpful in getting my SPDIF working. I just went through it again and still cannot seem to find where to switch the Windows mode from shared to exclusive.

 

My Peachtree Nova does not display the rate at which the music is being played. Do you know of any other ways to determine if I am actually reaching the 24/96?

 

Thanks again,

Mike

 

[PeterSt]

Hi Mike,

 

The only advice I can give you is use a player of which it is 100% known that it will play in Exlusive Mode only. Usually I say Foobar will do that, but with 24/96 I never really tried.

 

For me this leaves my own XXHighEnd which can be trusted by guarantee; so, download it (that's free) and try to play the 24/96. If you have sound it works. Otherwise error messages will appear telling you the sample rate etc. is not supported.

 

Notice there are no real settings in Windows 7 for Exclusive Mode, although there is one which is involved : the "Allow Exclusive Access" (similar) in the Device's properties (Advanced tab IIRC). But this will be defaulted to Yes (but in the mean time you can have set it to No).

 

Lastly, notice that the Exclusive Mode access is needed, because otherwise the OS will resample to whatever it is your device is capable of (when it is not 24/94 while you play 24/96).

 

Dave at Peachtree mentioned on the phone that I need to use a program like Bitperfect so that I do not have to constantly change the settings on my PC.

 

This looks a bit strange to me, unless the Nova really can't switch sample rates (and then still I can't understand the "Bitperfect" advice). Anyway, that is a Mac advice, and Macs are a bit strange (meaning : hard to grasp if you are not experienced with it). In Windows it works a kind of other way around : the playback software *always* sets the sample rate, be that implicitly because of the file's content (like the 24/96 implies the sample rate of 96KHz) or be that explicitly because you resample. Anyway, no means exist under Windows to just "let it be".

 

To be concrete (and when you'd try it of course) : When you play a 16/44.1 via XXHighEnd (leave all upsampling off) your Nova should play it. Next drag that 24/96 in, and it should play that too if the Nova allows for it (and no switches are on it for setting the input sample rate).

There is one litte caveat : by default the output will be 32 bits (because that is what most DACs want), and if your 24/96 doesn't play, you really must switch the output to 24 bits (this is under Settings "DAC Needs"). Try this latter carefully because when the DAC needs 32 bits afterall, you will receive loud static in this 24 bit output mode.

 

When the result is known just delete the folder in which you installed XXHighEnd. There's also a very minor install of some OCX which can be uninstalled normally (named Phasure OCX).

 

I hope this helps you a little ...

Peter

 

[mcatucci]

Peter,

 

Thank you for your reply. It certainly does help me. I am understanding the process a bit more. I was under the assumption there were settings in Windows that needed to be adjusted but I realize now it is the player. I downloaded JRiver last night and went through the settings Dave has in his review. I noticed a nice difference in the sound of all of my music, both 24/96 and the lower CD quality stuff. I'm not sure if the player is getting 24/96 as there is no way for me to test this. I will download XXHighEnd tonight and give that a try as well. At least I will be able to tell if the 24/96 is working.

 

Thank you again Peter for your time and help with this, it is most appreciated.

 

-Mike

 

[Audio_ELF]

Dave at Peachtree mentioned on the phone that I need to use a program like Bitperfect so that I do not have to constantly change the settings on my PC.

I would assume Dave @ Peachtree was referring to the Mac OS X software...

 

Eloise

 

[mcatucci]

I'm not at all familiar with Mac systems but that appears to be the consensus.

 

[Audio_ELF]

PS I wasn't meaning you would require a Mac to use 24/96, just clarifying what software was being referred to (as some posts in reply seemed confused what "Bitperfect" was)...

 

Foobar 2k, J.River and XXHighEnd and many others should play back your 24/96 files fine.

 

[mcatucci]

Eloise,

 

Thank you for the clarification. I was stuck on the operating system being the issue and while it does seem you have to tweak the OS, the main thing seems to be to use a player that will push that 24/96 stream through without letting Windows mess with it. I think I am getting this a little now ;-)

 

 

Again, thank you for your help!

 

[The Computer Audiophile]

Hi Peter - A couple things.

 

1. Please don't push your own products too much.

 

2. If a newbie is struggling with bit perfect playback, do you really think XXHE is the program to suggest. This is only a rhetorical question and needs no answer :~)

 

 

 

 

 

[PeterSt]

Here is my explanation :

 

As you may have seen here and there, I am more often involved in determining whether something is bit perfect or not. Btw, who started "bit perfect" here ? not me (so see the title :-) Edit : This doesn't make sense because I changed the title afterwards.

Maybe you recall your Alpha showing 44.1 unexpectedly; sometimes there's more to it than "being general".

 

All I saw from this thread is that Mike received an answer (ah, that was yours), and it didn't help much. Ehm, obviously.

Obviously because we can't say that JR is playing in Exclusive Mode at all times. So, without further help like a control panel showing the output sample rate (towards the driver) one can't know. And otherwise you tell me how to do it ...

 

So what's left is the knowledge of the 100% guarantee that a player concerned just won't do otherwise than leaving the sample rate (and bits if you like) alone. For Foobar I know this from 16/44.1 and I must have advised it a couple of dozen times (use search) just for this purpose.

This doesn't say at all that for 24/96 it leaves everything alone as well. 24/96 is special because of flaws in WASAPI. Allow me to know, and allow me to know better.

 

When the audio is setup like it is in JRiver and all of the others supporting WASAPI, there is no guarantee at all that the output will be in Exclusive Mode. One exception : just don't allow it otherwise. Foobar does this for 16/44.1 at least, and most probably also for 24/96. But what to do with "most probably".

 

What it comes down to is that there is one means only by 100% guarantee if I had to decide, and this is logically my own software. Mind you, in this special case.

So, where I, again logically, am able to help someone (which needs some trust of course), it wouldn't be allowed by this means ?

See through it carefully please, and again take notice that normally I mention Foobar.

 

 

 

 

 

[The Computer Audiophile]

Peter - I give you more leeway than most others manufacturers. I did say not to push your products "too much."

 

 

 

"So, where I, again logically, am able to help someone (which needs some trust of course), it wouldn't be allowed by this means ?"

 

Not necessarily. There are tons of DAC questions on the site. If I let DAC manufacturers propose their own products because they fit a certain need, the site would be overrun by spam. I am not a machine and am capable of using judgement, thus allowing you to discuss XXHE quite often.

 

Also, for someone who is less savvy with playback applications I think XXHE may be the wrong choice.

 

 

 

 

[cpuma]

Hi Mike,

 

You said you heard a nice improvement in sound after installing/configuring JRiver. What player were you using before JRiver, just Itunes?

 

 

 

[mcatucci]

I was using iTunes and then tried Media Monkey. I thought Media Monkey was a nice improvement over iTunes. JRiver seems to be a notch above MM to my ears anyway.