Bit rates and other oddities

[rtrautner]

I am puzzled about the expression of bit rate in iTunes relative to the purported rate of the recording. Case in point: 2 recent HDTracks downloads, one represented as 24/44.1 (Bjork) and another as 24/96 (Wilco) register identically in iTunes with a bit rate of 3072 kbps and sample rate of 96. What is the relationship between 24 and 3072? Why would the sample rate listed in iTunes for Bjork seemingly be incorrect? Another recording (VM Bhatt) is 24/88 on HDT where iTunes lists it as 2822 kbps/88.2.

 

Consulting the ultimate authority on the subject (Wikipedia), one should be able to multiple sample rate x bit depth x # channels to get bit rate. Thus, 16/44.1 computes a bit rate of 1411 kbps, exactly as shown in iTunes. However, 24/96 then should be 4608 kbps and 24/88.2 should be 4234 kbps, contrasting with 3072 and 2822, respectively as shown on iTunes.

 

I download FLAC and covert to AIFF using Max, then import to iTunes. The sample rate shown in iTunes is usually consistent with that listed on HDTracks, but there are occasional anomalies as noted here.

 

Can anyone explain these peculiarities? Should one just ignore the data listed on iTunes? Are these recordings being downloaded/converted/stored in something other than native resolution? My intention is bit perfect recording, not up sampled. Is there likely a problem with the preference settings in one or more programs?

 

Thanks.

 

 

 

[goldsdad]

3072 kbps is consistent with 16/96 stereo.

2822 kbps is consistent with 16/88.2 stereo.

 

A couple of things are going on here, I guess.

 

1. When using Max to convert 24 bit files to AIFF, you've neglected to use 24 bit AIFF instead of 16 bit AIFF. Max requires the user to ensure that the output bit depth matches the input. XLD is an alternative converter that matches the bit depth automatically.

 

2. HDTracks is supplying Bjork's album as 24/96 files. Someone may have complained that it looks like upsampled 44.1 so HDTracks has changed the description on their site to 24/44.1. There is precedent for this behaviour by HDTracks, if I recall correctly.

 

Bit depth of a track can be checked in Summary tab of iTunes's Get Info

 

 

[rtrautner]

Goldsdad,

You were exactly right about both the problem and the solution. XLD works immediately and flawlessly, automatically converting the files at the correct bit depth. If only all those nagging things in life could be fixed so easily.

 

Thanks so much for taking the time and effort to respond!

 

 

 

[goldsdad]

You may not have noticed that XLD has a File menu item "Open Folder As a Disc...". This results in the same album-based interface as when ripping a CD instead of the track-by-track interface that results from dropping folders/files onto the XLD icon.

 

In the album interface, you can multi-select tracks then edit metadata (right-click for menu or press cmd-i), such as album title, simultaneously for all tracks.

 

 

[rtrautner]

Thanks for that tip-it was helpful. One last problem: after converting files, the files do not aggregate as album folders in my iTunes library. I have selected Batchâ?'preserve directory structures, which inconsistently results in each track appearing in the folder list with a tiny album cover logo along with every other track from every other recording I've converted with XLD, but they still appear as individual tracks. I haven't been able to get the tracks to aggregate into a single folder, so I have to do it manually, which is painful when you have a lot of files as I do. Any suggestions?

Thanks again.

 

[goldsdad]

Which version of XLD are you using?

Post screenshots of the General and Batch sections of XLD's Preferences.

Post a screenshot of "the folder list with a tiny album cover logo along with every other track from every other recording I've converted with XLD" because I'm not sure what you mean by that.

 

In case you don't know, there's a shortcut for taking a screenshot of a window. Press shift-cmd-4 followed by spacebar, move the camera pointer to the window, then click. The screenshot will be placed on the desktop.

 

 

 

[rtrautner]

There should be the 3 requested screen shots attached. Note the 3rd one is a shot of my Drobo external HD. I tried to capture enough so you can see the hierarchical arrangement of the files/folders. This view doesn't show the mini album cover icons-they would appear in place of the black music symbol icons that represent AIFF files. For some reason, only one album appeared that way. The cuts aggregate in iTunes normally and play as usual; it's just that they appear in the library as individual cuts. This is a problem in the event that I need to find them, move them, etc.

Thanks!

 

 

[goldsdad]

I created a simulation of your Drobo volume on a Firewire drive and set the Preferences in XLD 20110924 to match yours.

 

First image is before creating AIFF files.

 

 

Then I selected the album1 and album2 folders in the FLAC albums folder, dropped them onto the XLD icon (same as using menu XLD>File>Open) then clicked OK in the XLD window.

 

Second image shows that new album1 and album2 folders containing AIFFs have been created in the Music folder.

 

 

Try using a regular hard drive instead of the Drobo to see if the Drobo is somehow responsible for your problem.

 

 

[deckeda]

It's not the Drobo. The storage device can't dictate how the file system works. Only the OS or an app can do that.

 

... the files do not aggregate as album folders in my iTunes library.

 

iTunes has a pref you want checkmarked to permit it to keep the library organized into proper folders. Look in the last Preferences area, in Advanced.

 

[goldsdad]

@deckeda:

 

Rick's screenshots suggest that folders are not being created on his Drobo in accordance with his XLD settings, but I now have an idea of what's happening - see end of this post.

 

I was wrongly thinking that the Drobo was some kind of NAS device with its own OS.

 

Anyway, you are correct that enabling iTunes's "Keep media folder organized" preference should now move the tracks into artist and album folders derived from track metadata, as long as iTunes has been set to use "/Volumes/Drobo/iTunes library-Drobo" as its Media folder.

 

 

@rtrautner:

 

Rick, when you are passing the FLACs to XLD, are you selecting the track files themselves or the album folders containing the tracks? Selecting the files will give the result you have - all AIFFs in the Music folder. Selecting the album folders will give the result I got - new album folders containing AIFFs in the Music folder.

 

 

[The Computer Audiophile]

"I created a simulation of your Drobo volume on a Firewire drive and set the Preferences in XLD 20110924 to match yours."

 

You guys are awesome. Thanks for taking the time to help fellow computer audiophiles. It helps the entire industry in addition to the single reader.

 

 

 

[rtrautner]

First, I want to echo and amplify Chris's thanks-you have clearly gone beyond the call of duty and it is much appreciated.

 

I had my CD collection ripped to my Drobo by a service called Ready to Play (www.readytoplay.com). They did a great job. One of their primary benefits is detailed labeling with genre, grouping, etc. In order to preserve this more detailed organization, they recommend that I do not check the box "keep media folder organized", as that will override all this custom labeling. Curiously, until I switched from Max to XLD this was not a problem, which leads me to think it is an issue of preferences or protocol.

 

When converting FLAC to AIFF I use your suggestion "open folder as a disc". When I do this I get a window such as the one I attached. I then seem to have only the option to "extract", with the aforementioned result.

 

I have figured out some manual workarounds, but it would be preferable to have this process automated.

 

One more question: In the bottom left hand corner of this screen shot it says "AccurateRip: NO". Any idea what that means? If it indicates that there is some kind of error checking option that I have turned off, I assume I should turn it on, but I can't figure out how.

 

Thanks again for all your help.

 

 

 

[goldsdad]

"they recommend that I do not check the box "keep media folder organized", as that will override all this custom labeling."

 

Enabling that option will not affect tags, as far as I know. I choose not to enable the option, but if it is enabled, it just instructs iTunes to maintain the subfolders organisation within the iTunes Media folder. iTunes will name folders based on the artist and album tags, and subsequent editing of the tags will result in iTunes renaming/reorganising the folders.

 

"When converting FLAC to AIFF I use your suggestion "open folder as a disc" [...] I have figured out some manual workarounds, but it would be preferable to have this process automated."

 

Do not use "Open Folder As a Disc" for automated conversion of a batch of albums. I failed to clarify that at the end of my last post. Multi-select the album folders in Finder, not the track files within the folders, and drop the folders onto the XLD icon in the Dock (or select the folders with XLD's "Open" command). Or did you try that and still had no success in preventing all AIFFs going into one folder?

 

"In the bottom left hand corner of this screen shot it says "AccurateRip: NO". Any idea what that means?"

 

First thing to understand is that the indicator does not tell you whether you have an accurate rip or not. It only says whether the album is eligible for verification with the AccurateRip database.

 

When the indicator is "Yes", that does not mean that your files actually have been verified. It only means that you can now proceed with verification (a "Verify" button will appear next to "Yes") which will produce a saveable report like a ripping log.

 

When the indicator is "No", it means that the AccurateRip database does not have data for an album with the same number of tracks and track-lengths as your album, against which your files can be checked for being accurately ripped. AR deals with CD rips only and I believe XLD will automatically make this indicator "No" for 24 bit files.

 

One reason that the indicator can be "No" is that nobody has added that CD to the AR database yet; the CD may be rare or very recently released.

 

There's another reason that the indicator can be "No" even when the album is in the database and all the samples in your files are correct. The first track may have a pregap preventing eligibility of the rip for verification by AR. XLD's "Open Folder As a Disc" dialog allows you to enter an initial pregap length when selecting a folder. If a cue sheet accompanies the album files, it will contain that pregap length. If the original ripping log accompanies the files, it may contain a table of start and end times and sectors of the tracks, and if the first track starts at a time greater than 00:00:00 then that time is the initial pregap length.

 

I have attached an album's rip log which reports that the rip is accurate. You will see from the table of contents that the first track starts at 00:00:32. If I "open folder as a disc" that rip into XLD without a pregap setting of 00:00:32, it cannot be verified with AccurateRip. However, if opening with pregap 00:00:32 and style "not prepended", it will be verifiable.

 

Hopefully, the company that ripped your collection is trustworthy and has supplied reports so you don't have to worry about checking accuracy.

 

 

 

[rtrautner]

Thanks again for taking all the time you are taking with this. May you be the beneficiary of a similar good samaritan some day.

 

It may be a few days before I have the time to sort through this, but I will.

 

Best,

 

[goldsdad]

The most important part of the last message was kind of buried. Here it is again:

 

Do not use "Open Folder As a Disc" for automated conversion of a batch of albums. Apart from anything else, you'd need to click "Extract" for each album.

 

Instead, multi-select the album folders in Finder, not the track files within the folders, and drop the folders onto the XLD icon in the Dock (or select the folders with XLD's "Open" command) so you are presented with XLD's track-by-track interface. Then when you click "OK" all will be processed without further intervention and album folders will be created according to the Batch Preferences.

 

 

 

[rtrautner]

The only problem is that I have to manually drag the album folder into the artist folder in the iTunes library. That I can live with. Otherwise, it looks like my problems are all solved. The best news is that all my HD files will now be bit perfect in native resolution!

 

Thanks again so much for your extraordinary help and patience!!

 

Best,

 

[goldsdad]

Manual dragging of folders can be avoided in alternative ways.

 

1. So far, you have XLD putting folders containing track files in the "iTunes Media/Music" folder. Enabling the "Keep iTunes Media folder organised" preference in iTunes will result in iTunes putting track files into album folders inside artist folders inside the Music folder. The folder names will be derived from the album and artist tags in the tracks. As far as I'm aware, iTunes will not interfere with the track tags despite the ripping company saying, "do not check the box "keep media folder organized", as that will override all this custom labeling."

 

2. XLD can be set to automatically create album folders within artist folders based on the album and artist tags in a similar way to iTunes in method 1.

 

The second method will be the one for you if you do not want to risk enabling "Keep iTunes Media folder organised". If you want further instructions for that, provide two screenshots of Finder:

1. The FLACs folder hierarchy

2. The AIFFs folder hierarchy that you've manually created so far, as an example of the structure that you want.