Subwoofer In a 2-Channel System?

[Marcels_Music]

Asking people's opinions whether a serious 2-channel rig should include a subwoofer?

 

Thanks!

Erik

 

[PeterSt]

It sure does Erik.

 

But get yourself something decent (nothing like REL's).

 

Oh, I now see that you're actually asking about ONE sub. But you really should get TWO.

 

Satellite them from the high output of your amps (just the LS outputs, and of course assuming that they have high-inputs).

 

but

 

Do something about the low pass in them. Often it's a 120Hz, which is as often way too high. So, match them with your woofers. This may not be easy, but really worth while.

Half of CDs contain sub-low information ...

 

Peter

 

PS: My woofers go to 27Hz, the subs output from 40Hz to 12Hz.

 

[Glennboy]

I added an active sub to my system about 4 months ago and was instantly pleased with the result.

I like the fact I can adjust volume and at what frequencies the sub handles, I just let it handle the low stuff and let my mordaunts handle the mid bass.

My system sounds much more balanced now my amp was probably not giving my speakers enough for real low bass.

I was keen to choose a sub made with music in mind and mine is no slouch with fast rock or dance music.

Whether or not my system is a "serious" 2 channel rig I care little, my only concern is that the music feel alive which my sub has helped a lot with.

Peace

 

[Amused]

I've been running a REL for close to 15 years, originally the Stadium II and now a Storm 3. I find that they're the most musical subs on the market. If you're not running full range speakers, a sub (if set up correctly) can definitely complete the music. It really comes down to your system and your preferred sound signature.

 

 

 

[Part-Time Audiophile]

But I think REL (or JLA) are too expensive. I've found that Rythmik subs are not only fast as crap, they're really tuneful too. Extremely tight.

 

Of course, I cheat and use a Velodyne SMS-1 with them. Not the ideal solution, but it makes integration pretty seamless and it allows you to change the Q as you see fit.

 

[Erwin S]

Some stereo systems are designed to use a sub, like the Lyngdorf DP-1.

http://www.lyngdorf.com/

 

Some systems have the subs integrated, like B&O Beolab 5.

http://www.bang-olufsen.com/beolab5

 

But if your stereo pair is the B&W 802D, why bother? And my Jamo R909 also don't need them (in fact, subs would ruin the tight bass they produce). So, the lower your main speakers can go (or the smaller the room is), the lesser the need for subs. I got inwalls in my office and these were useless until I added a little REL SW.

 

If you use subs, be very carefull how to implement them. AVR's use time delay to integrate them. While directionally placement is non-fussy, they need to be at the same distance from the ear as the main speakers, or you get muddy sound.

 

[Marcels_Music]

A friend of a friend bought some $10K sub-woofer, took it home to his listening room in his basement, set it up and did a small listening test at low levels. Next thing he knows, his neighbour is ringing his doorbell asking if he's okay because he (the neighbour) thinks a bomb has exploded or something....

 

[Marcels_Music]

@Erwin S

 

< Mac mini < USB < Iomega MiniMax 2TB 2< coaxial < Emotiva ERC-1 CD

 

Just out of curiosity: In your system, what sounds better the CD player or your Mac Mini?

 

[toddbagwell]

I use 4 subs.

 

My mains roll off at 40hz in the position that gives me the best stereo imaging.

 

I use digital eq prior to my pre/pro D/A conversion to smooth the in room response from the subs.

 

IMO this setup is miles better than just the two mains. I'm also a bass-nut, and love the lower octaves. My subs are flat to the mid teens.

 

 

Todd

 

 

 

[earflappin]

My experience has been that it takes 3-4 small subs asymmetrically located in the listening room to get smooth LF response.

 

One most certainly will leave you with room mode issues, two will be better depending on where you locate them and three will be better yet, and at four you start to reach the law of diminishing returns. I run two way monitors that are flat to around 50 hz. I sum the LR channels and send a summed signal to all the subs and then use an active crossover to adjust crossover, phase, gain and EQ for each sub. I am in the camp that in the low frequency range we are talking about the brain cannot localize the source so having stereo subs doesn't make sense to me. But you can get a vigorous, if not religious debate on that subject and it's not one in which I want to engage!

 

Bottom line, at a minimum I'd do two. Do them in stereo mode if that's the mental model you buy into. If you can, try three. I think you will be suprised at how good that sounds....and you don't need to go with mega expensive subs either. You can find how to set up multiple subs on line.

 

All of this is just one guy's opinion

 

[bikemig]

I like a sub with movies but not with music. Part of the reason is that I have found it difficult to meld the sub and speakers properly for music. Part of the reason is that for my tastes, a good floorstanding speaker has plenty of bass for music.

 

[Bear]

I have paired up my AZ Adagio's with a ML Depth i. The Depth has an ingenious design. It blends in perfectly with Adagio's. The sub is set up in line. With low-pass at 55 and high-pass at 70 I get an even response all the way down to the low 20's except for the to be expected dip at the cross-over point or around 60. The Adagio's are no slouches in the nether ranges, but the improvement with the sub is substantial. A side effect of filtering out the lower frequencies before passing on the signal to the amp is that the amp does not have to work so hard, which in turn improves the sound in the mid's and up. I think this is especially true for Class D amp. Same goes for the speakers if they are not truly full range, which is rare. They can perform where they excel and let he sub take over the heavy lifting, which a fast, tight, low distortion sub like the Depth is more than happy to do. Needless to say a sub will always have a place in my setup.

 

[mwheelerk]

My experience with subs was best with REL. Their method of high pass connection in my mind and experience is the best way to integrate a sub into a two channel system for music. I do not run a sub right now but if I do again it will be an REL.

 

[dallasjustice]

I have had Rhythmik, REL and JLA Fatham F113. JLA is my choice among these. Don't buy just one.

 

[Erwin S]

To be totally honoust: a ripped CD via the mini sounds completely the same to me as that CD via the CD-player. Both go through the DAC2. Have only tried a few though. But I got my son listening in, who is 16, so he might hear more than my middle aged ears. But he doesn't hear a difference. Same for my wife.

 

[Naggots]

We tried a Velodyne dd15 but settled on an SVS ultra..... Amazing sub and all hand built in the USA.

 

Now have 4 of them.........