JPLAY for iOS

[111MilesToGo]

ASKING FOR HELP WITH CONCEPTUALIZING A POTENTIAL SOFTWARE SETUP WITH JPLAY ON IOS

+ (1) HARDWARE STREAMER + (2) LINUX PC WITH MPD AND SEVERAL USB-DACs

+ (3) AUDIO FILE SERVER

 

I got triggered by the recent very positive reviews of the JPlay for iOS app here on Audiophile Style, by Christiaan Punter on hifi-advice.com, and on HiFiStatement.net. Each review mentions bits and pieces on concepts and components, but I feel in need of some community help here.

 

I am considering whether and how to put a JPlay-centered software setup alongside my current Roon-centered software setup, same hardware for both. Who knows where that will end up ... sticking with Roon, having both interchangeably, or discarding the more expensive Roon one day? I consider the 14-day trial period of JPlay to be too short for my learning curve to develop the required setup. As a first step, I would try to set up things with some placeholder software, e.g. MConnect instead of JPlay on iOS.

 

Short description of my current Roon-centered setup:

• Roon Core on the home network:
  • Running on a Windows 10 laptop (sitting in one room), which also holds my local audio files (PCM as FLAC and DSD) on its SSD
• Currently two endpoint branches on the home network (both sitting in another room):
  1. A Wiim Pro Plus streamer/DAC (Roon Ready) which is used as a digital transport only, outputting S/PDIF via optical or coaxial to a choice of separate DACs
  2. A second laptop running Linux, running the official Roon Bridge and outputting
     • via its USB ports (directly thru alsa) to a choice of USB DACs and USB-to-optical converters

This Roon setup works nicely. I am on Qobuz and Tidal integrating into Roon, plus those local files. And I use Roon Remote as well as Roon Arc on my iPhone. PLEASE NOTE that some of the a.m. devices should be considered PLACEHOLDERS only before any upgrades, in particular the Wiim Pro Plus!

Additionally, I use the Linux laptop as a stand-alone music player without Roon, using mpd (Music Player Daemon with graphical front-end Cantata) for playing local files from its own SSD to the same USB devices with direct access thru alsa. (Note: The audio files collections on the Windows and Linux machines are straight copies of each other, providing a simple backup system.)

 

May I ask you please whether and which way to go for JPlay on iOS makes sense? Yes, using JPlay as a UPnP control point on my iPhone seems obvious, except for screen size as compared to an iPad.

 

But how to create a software setup that should do the same things my two-pronged Roon setup does? My initial conceptual considerations are:

• Regarding the a.m. Wiim Pro Plus branch 1: As a first step, I put Mconnect onto my iPhone, just as a placeholder for JPlay, so to speak. Mconnect finds the Wiim Pro Plus (which also talks UPnP/DLNA) right away and plays to it, including gapless. Up to now only from Qobuz and Tidal, not checked the local files yet.
• But how could I recreate the a.m. branch 2 - the Roon Bridge type of function of the second Linux laptop - in a UPnP/JPlay world, outputting to the various USB-DAC devices attached to it?
  • Would a correct setup involve running upmpdcli on the Linux machine, as a UPnP bridge between JPlay on the iPhone and mpd (Music Player Daemon) on this very same Linux machine, which in turn outputs to the USB devices via alsa?
  • Would upmdcli transparently expose each USB-DAC on the Linux machine to JPlay and let me select one for replay (as Roon with Roon Bridge does perfectly well), in this case with mpd? Or would it just expose the Linux machine as one blop (say an mpd blop), not really helpful for selecting an actual USB-DAC output?
  • Remark: I have always found that mpd on Linux is doing a very nice job regarding audio quality. And I did recently discover that my Linux kernel (distro openSUSE Tumbleweed) now does incorporate the required patches for playing native DSD to a whole bunch of DACs out of the box (thanks to Jussi Laako of Signalyst/hqplayer), which mpd makes good use of - marvelous.
• I understand that I could run e.g. MinimServer on either my Windows laptop or my Linux laptop in order to provide the local files / library to JPlay via UPnP. Correct? It would cost some money as well, or I could think of other file servers.

After the conceptual matters, configuring and running the various software components would be next.

 

I would be very grateful for help from the community with all my questions, for recommendations, improvements, constructive criticism, whatever. And thanks for bearing with me and my "still a novice in networked audio" learning curve. Again, please also keep my placeholder approach in mind (Wiim Pro Plus ...).

[111MilesToGo]

26 minutes ago, stefano_mbp said:

I try to answer in few words:

• upmpdcli is the interface to MPD therefore it is necessary to control MPD using JPlay for iOS/MConnect
• the upnp control point (JPlay for iOS/MConnect) can discover only upnp renderers on the network and not, like Roon, the connected dac too, therefore it is necessary to select first the dac in the renderer to be able to use it, if there is more than one connected.

MinimServer is the best upnp mediaserver to be used with JPlay for iOS.

It can be installed on Windows, macOS, Linux and nas (Qnap and Synology are the best choices)

It is available in two “flavors”:

• Starter Edition, free of charge but limited in the configuration (you cannot use all the features)
• Full license, lifetime (40 GBP) within the major version, it enables all configuration features, you can add maintenance addon  (10 GBP/year) that enable any update for any major version

Thank you for your speedy reply!

In short, I understand that

(1) my concept in general is a valid one,

but that

(2) there is a shortcoming as compared to Roon in that USB-DACs hooked up to the computer running the renderer (MPD) cannot be discovered by the control point. They would need to be selected manually e.g. via an MPD command line utility on that computer - maybe such a nuisance would be a road block for me, don‘t know yet.

 

One more remark / question, please: From reading on the web, I understand that UPnP can constitute a substantial security risk; that "feature“ never really changed. At least, one should have the router hardened. Correct?

[111MilesToGo]

On 2/14/2024 at 10:17 AM, 111MilesToGo said:

ASKING FOR HELP WITH CONCEPTUALIZING A POTENTIAL SOFTWARE SETUP WITH JPLAY ON IOS

+ (1) HARDWARE STREAMER + (2) LINUX PC WITH MPD AND SEVERAL USB-DACs

+ (3) AUDIO FILE SERVER

 

I got triggered by the recent very positive reviews of the JPlay for iOS app here on Audiophile Style, by Christiaan Punter on hifi-advice.com, and on HiFiStatement.net. Each review mentions bits and pieces on concepts and components, but I feel in need of some community help here.

 

I am considering whether and how to put a JPlay-centered software setup alongside my current Roon-centered software setup, same hardware for both. Who knows where that will end up ... sticking with Roon, having both interchangeably, or discarding the more expensive Roon one day? I consider the 14-day trial period of JPlay to be too short for my learning curve to develop the required setup. As a first step, I would try to set up things with some placeholder software, e.g. MConnect instead of JPlay on iOS.

 

Short description of my current Roon-centered setup:

• Roon Core on the home network:
  • Running on a Windows 10 laptop (sitting in one room), which also holds my local audio files (PCM as FLAC and DSD) on its SSD
• Currently two endpoint branches on the home network (both sitting in another room):
  1. A Wiim Pro Plus streamer/DAC (Roon Ready) which is used as a digital transport only, outputting S/PDIF via optical or coaxial to a choice of separate DACs
  2. A second laptop running Linux, running the official Roon Bridge and outputting
     • via its USB ports (directly thru alsa) to a choice of USB DACs and USB-to-optical converters

This Roon setup works nicely. I am on Qobuz and Tidal integrating into Roon, plus those local files. And I use Roon Remote as well as Roon Arc on my iPhone. PLEASE NOTE that some of the a.m. devices should be considered PLACEHOLDERS only before any upgrades, in particular the Wiim Pro Plus!

Additionally, I use the Linux laptop as a stand-alone music player without Roon, using mpd (Music Player Daemon with graphical front-end Cantata) for playing local files from its own SSD to the same USB devices with direct access thru alsa. (Note: The audio files collections on the Windows and Linux machines are straight copies of each other, providing a simple backup system.)

 

May I ask you please whether and which way to go for JPlay on iOS makes sense? Yes, using JPlay as a UPnP control point on my iPhone seems obvious, except for screen size as compared to an iPad.

 

But how to create a software setup that should do the same things my two-pronged Roon setup does? My initial conceptual considerations are:

• Regarding the a.m. Wiim Pro Plus branch 1: As a first step, I put Mconnect onto my iPhone, just as a placeholder for JPlay, so to speak. Mconnect finds the Wiim Pro Plus (which also talks UPnP/DLNA) right away and plays to it, including gapless. Up to now only from Qobuz and Tidal, not checked the local files yet.
• But how could I recreate the a.m. branch 2 - the Roon Bridge type of function of the second Linux laptop - in a UPnP/JPlay world, outputting to the various USB-DAC devices attached to it?
  • Would a correct setup involve running upmpdcli on the Linux machine, as a UPnP bridge between JPlay on the iPhone and mpd (Music Player Daemon) on this very same Linux machine, which in turn outputs to the USB devices via alsa?
  • Would upmdcli transparently expose each USB-DAC on the Linux machine to JPlay and let me select one for replay (as Roon with Roon Bridge does perfectly well), in this case with mpd? Or would it just expose the Linux machine as one blop (say an mpd blop), not really helpful for selecting an actual USB-DAC output?
  • Remark: I have always found that mpd on Linux is doing a very nice job regarding audio quality. And I did recently discover that my Linux kernel (distro openSUSE Tumbleweed) now does incorporate the required patches for playing native DSD to a whole bunch of DACs out of the box (thanks to Jussi Laako of Signalyst/hqplayer), which mpd makes good use of - marvelous.
• I understand that I could run e.g. MinimServer on either my Windows laptop or my Linux laptop in order to provide the local files / library to JPlay via UPnP. Correct? It would cost some money as well, or I could think of other file servers.

After the conceptual matters, configuring and running the various software components would be next.

 

I would be very grateful for help from the community with all my questions, for recommendations, improvements, constructive criticism, whatever. And thanks for bearing with me and my "still a novice in networked audio" learning curve. Again, please also keep my placeholder approach in mind (Wiim Pro Plus ...).

Just a short note to follow up on my a.m. questions, the helpful answers by @stefano_mbp and @dericchan1 as well as the articles and other contributions by @The Computer Audiophile - thanks to you all.

 

Well, I put the software setup in place exactly as conceived:

- Audio file server: Windows 10 laptop running MinimServer

- UPnP renderer 1: WiiM Pro Plus streamer used as digital transport only, feeding a Chord Hugo 2 via TOSLINK

- UPnP renderer 2: Linux laptop running upmpdcli and mpd, feeding a choice of USB-DACs (incl. the Hugo 2) out of the laptop‘s USB ports, directly via USB or two-step via USB-to-TOSLINK converter

- JPlay for iOS on my iPhone as control point, plus integration of my local library as well as Qobuz and Tidal.

(Remark again: I consider e.g. the WiiM or the iPhone just placeholders for potential upgrades.)

 

My findings after a couple of hours:

- The setup works really well, amazing and awesome.

- JPlay for iOS is an awesome piece of software, nice to look at, snappy and well-designed GUI, great audio quality. Even with my modest gear I can hear a difference to the better as compared to MConnect.

- MinimServer deserves every praise as well.

- In summary, I did put together a second software setup which does almost the same as my Roon setup described above. The two main differences for me as of now are:

- - Pro - MinimServer makes my >1TB library available much better than Roon (think of album recognition and play also from folder, in light of having a ton of Grateful Dead legal and high-quality bootlegs.)

- - Contra - JPlay (unlike Roon) cannot discover the USB-DACs on the Linux machine, so I have to activate them outside of JPlay.

 

In fact, the truely positive JPlay for iOS reviews by @The Computer Audiophile, by Christiaan Punter on hifi-advice.com, and by Roland Dietl on hifistatement.net did not at all exaggerate. I got turned on …

 

I do hope for JPlay to develop in a very positive way, whatever that might mean to so many discerning and different people like us. Let me say just this: Listen to your customers on the one hand, and don‘t overdo its features on the other hand.

[111MilesToGo]

I don‘t know yet where to put bug reports and feature requests for JPlay for iOS. Thus I‘ll post two minor niggles I observed during my first hours with JPlay here:

 

On the Now Playing Screen, track title, album title, and artist name (below the cover image) should be scrolling in the customary fashion.

On the queue display from the Now Playin screen (2nd tab), would it be possible to show the original [disc_number-]track_number? These are important helpers in oder to see where and within an album we are right now.

 

Thanks a lot for your considerations.

[111MilesToGo]

Although I started with JPLAY only yesterday, I should report on one similar observation. JPLAY with MinimServer for local audio files here. When just displaying my local albums, covers were correct. When doing a search on this list in JPLAY, some covers showed up wrong.

 

I should mention what my scope of interest was. My search was for Tori Amos, correctly yielding like 5 albums from my local library. In the search results, 3 out of the 5 were wrong. Going back to the display of the full library, these 5 were correct. That‘s what "correct" in the last paragraph means.

[111MilesToGo]

5 hours ago, stefano_mbp said:

Check that all the album tracks have the same artwork embedded, when Minimserver show an album the folder.jpg (if any in the folder) is shown while if a track is shown the track embedded artwork is shown.

This is a useful feature when you have a multidisc box where the box has an artwork and the single discs have a different artwork

Thank you for your impressive expertise and your willingness to share. Although I know my local libraries are not perfect, I think they are not as bad as what I saw, Tori Amos albums when searched for exhibiting Grateful Dead covers… ;-)

 

Anyway, that issue is not reproducible. A few rescans in MinimServer and a few disconnects/connects to the server in JPLAY, and that particular funny problem doesn‘t show up.

[111MilesToGo]

Using JPLAY for iOS for 1.5 weeks now, the end of the - too short - trial period is coming up. So I am (a) not in a position yet to report observations with appropriate diligence, but I also feel (b) slightly indifferent about shelling out 50€ for the first year.

 

I am running JPLAY for iOS (starting with v 1.0.14, v 1.0.15 now) on my iPhone 14 Pro Max 512 GB - I figure that‘s not underpowered in any way.

 

I am occasionally observing peculiar behaviors of the scrubbing bar on the Now Playing screen and the two time numbers. Maybe I see this since v 1.0.15 only (which brought a scrubbing bar to the mini player, which I don‘t get on my iPhone), but I am not sure. I see strange numbers when scrubbing forward:

- I saw a number of tracks run significantly longer than their total time, i.e. e.g. a 12-min song ran to 14 mins after scrubbing forward some amount within the track.

- I saw a song displaying the total time of the previous song as the current position (left number) for half a minute or so until it got to grips and displayed the correct 0:30 or so.

- A very few times I had the feeling that the dot on the scrubbing bar might be placed incorrectly, e.g. 50% of the total time didn‘t look like 50% of the scrubbing bar.

 

The audio didn‘t go wrong as far as I listened, only the time figures. I could understand when time figures would lag a few seconds at most, but not those grossly erroneous figures.

 

Please understand me correctly: I am a novice user of UPnP, and a very new user of JPLAY for iOS. I do see a great sense and pleasure in using JPLAY, but I also feel there a little way to walk before that happens no fully.

 

I guess all I‘m asking is: Does anybody else observe quirks in the time numbers display on the Now Playing screen?

[111MilesToGo]

Despite the issue with scrubbing I posted here just above, I do feel JPLAY for iOS is a great app. Thanks for creating it, @Marcin_gps!

 

I am currently contemplating some future aspects to increase my pleasure, a.o. using an iPad as control point instead of my iPhone 14 Pro Max. I‘d like to get some recommends and considerations from the community:

- Does JPLAY run on any iPad, excluding maybe the oldest ones?

- Which specs should I take into account, and in which order?

- - 1. Processing power, thus M2 chip?

- - 2. RAM space?

- - 3. Storage? How much, 256 or 512 GB?

- - 4. Guess I don‘t need cellular, just WiFi

- - 5. Screen size?

- - 6. Longevity, in particular the prospects of receiving OS upgrades / updates for how long

- - 7. New model around the corner in fall 2024?

 

If you guessed that this hints at the current iPad Pro 11" (Fall 2022, with 256 or 512 GB), then you guessed correctly.

 

Thanks a lot in advance for any recommendations you could give, and - maybe even more important - any caveats like which models to avoid wrt JPLAY for iOS.

[111MilesToGo]

I‘d like to say today that I‘m more and more happy with JPLAY for iOS. I get my streaming services, and - finally - I got my local library back by accessing it the way I want (i.e. including folder view without that fanatic "no no never" point of view taken by "you know who" until very recently …).

 

@Marcin_gps, I would like to repeat my feature request: Please think about providing a true Stop button on the Now Playing screen in addition to the Pause button. Maybe an additional button, maybe give the Pause button two roles as Pause via normal tap and Stop via long-press or double-tap, whatever is best in line with common iOS GUI practices.

 

My reason behind this is that I use JPLAY to also control an MPD player on my Linux computer. Leaving MPD paused at the end of a listening session looks a bit awkward to me.

[111MilesToGo]

41 minutes ago, dericchan1 said:

@Marcin_gps I am current using jplay iOS to MPD in linux. When I pressed pause in jplay iOS, it still play some stuttered sound for a few seconds. Is that normal or something to do with buffering?

 

Thanks

 

Deric

Hi Deric, if I may chime in: I do exactly the same as you, with upmpdcli as the UPnP renderer front end to mpd. On openSUSE Tumbleweed. My setup is perfectly well-behaved.

[111MilesToGo]

17 minutes ago, 111MilesToGo said:

Hi Deric, if I may chime in: I do exactly the same as you, with upmpdcli as the UPnP renderer front end to mpd. On openSUSE Tumbleweed. My setup is perfectly well-behaved.

Addendum: At least with 1.0.15, 1.0.16 not tested yet.

[111MilesToGo]

22 minutes ago, dericchan1 said:

i am also using upmpdcli and mpd on a raspberry pi 4, is there some kind buffer settings in mpd or upmpdcli that needs to be made then?

upmpdcli is as it comes out-of-the-box. For my mpd settings I‘d like to defer that til Monday, sorry.