Better UPNP/DLNA endpoints?

[davide256]

I used to have a microRendu as UPNP/DLNA endpoint before jumping on the NUC bandwagon first with Audiolinux, then Euphony. The microRendu

was easy to live with, pretty much glitch free and very clean for SQ... but as time passed newer solutions offered better dynamics and transient response.

Euphony has since  evolved to add UPNP support with Stylus server and I'm liking UPNP again feeding an Atom PC w/Uptone Audio JS2 power supply,

running Euphony endpoint UPNP. Its a little buggy but worth it for SQ improvement.

 

The question I have is this; what (1) purpose built devices are out there that would have (2) good software as a UPNP endpoint and offer  (3) better hardware solution

than what I currently use. Have been pondering whether an Innuos pulse mini could be used as a UPNP endpoint but haven't gotten any affirmation from Innuos

that one can do so.

[nvitorino]

On 12/12/2022 at 12:44 AM, davide256 said:

I used to have a microRendu as UPNP/DLNA endpoint before jumping on the NUC bandwagon first with Audiolinux, then Euphony. The microRendu

was easy to live with, pretty much glitch free and very clean for SQ... but as time passed newer solutions offered better dynamics and transient response.

Euphony has since  evolved to add UPNP support with Stylus server and I'm liking UPNP again feeding an Atom PC w/Uptone Audio JS2 power supply,

running Euphony endpoint UPNP. Its a little buggy but worth it for SQ improvement.

 

The question I have is this; what (1) purpose built devices are out there that would have (2) good software as a UPNP endpoint and offer  (3) better hardware solution

than what I currently use. Have been pondering whether an Innuos pulse mini could be used as a UPNP endpoint but haven't gotten any affirmation from Innuos

that one can do so.

 

Hi,

 

Regarding the PULSEmini, no we haven't implemented it as a UPnP endpoint. It's also available as an innuOS endpoint, HQPlayer endpoint or as a Roon Bridge (Roon-Ready certification is in progress). You should be able to use it with a Stylus Server as I believe it's LMS based? You can set the PULSEmini in innuOS Endpoint mode and it will work as a Squeezelite endpoint to connect to Stylus. This should provide you with much better stability and features than UPnP.

 

This is in fact the reason we haven't implemented UPnP endpoint on the PULSE series - we do feel the wide variations in the protocol to be very difficult to ensure every device works well. The PULSEmini can also work in standalone mode whereas you can use the Sense App and connect to a shared folder on your NAS if you wish.

 

Hope this helps.

 

Nuno

[Cebolla]

36 minutes ago, nvitorino said:

This is in fact the reason we haven't implemented UPnP endpoint on the PULSE series - we do feel the wide variations in the protocol to be very difficult to ensure every device works well.

 

Presumably you are referring to the nightmare of having to account for all the of UPnP control points that are out there, the variation being their own quirky interpretation of the UPnP protocol. Couldn't you just recommended a few known reliable well established UPnP control point using applications, eg, Audirvana, BubbleUPnP, foobar2000, JRiver, mconnect Player, etc, that you'll only provide official support for?  

[nvitorino]

1 minute ago, Cebolla said:

 

Presumably you are referring to the nightmare of having to account for all the of UPnP control points that are out there, the variation being their own quirky interpretation of the UPnP protocol. Couldn't you just recommended a few known reliable well established UPnP control point using applications, eg, Audirvana, BubbleUPnP, foobar2000, JRiver, mconnect Player, etc, that you'll only provide official support for?  

 

We could consider Audirvana/JRiver as they have very complete Music Library management systems but for others we'd ask why not use the Sense App instead? Technically it's not very difficult to add UPnP endpoint but it's really the overhead required to ensure it works well that may not be worth it compared to using Sense, LMS-based applications, Roon or HQPlayer... Anyway, we are listening and if the use case makes sense and there is enough people to request it, it's something we can consider on a software update.

[davide256]

5 hours ago, nvitorino said:

 

Hi,

 

Regarding the PULSEmini, no we haven't implemented it as a UPnP endpoint. It's also available as an innuOS endpoint, HQPlayer endpoint or as a Roon Bridge (Roon-Ready certification is in progress). You should be able to use it with a Stylus Server as I believe it's LMS based? You can set the PULSEmini in innuOS Endpoint mode and it will work as a Squeezelite endpoint to connect to Stylus. This should provide you with much better stability and features than UPnP.

 

This is in fact the reason we haven't implemented UPnP endpoint on the PULSE series - we do feel the wide variations in the protocol to be very difficult to ensure every device works well. The PULSEmini can also work in standalone mode whereas you can use the Sense App and connect to a shared folder on your NAS if you wish.

 

Hope this helps.

 

Nuno

Thanks for responding!

one can use Euphony Stylus server with UPNP, HQP or Stylus for endpoint transport. But LMS is via squeezelite, have to provide a separate LMS server

or run Roon with squeezelite option.

Can appreciate that UPNP might be a bit woolly to tame.  And thats without delving into gapless/ Openhome. But I think its an effort worth making to

increase market size with the Pulse mini.

[nvitorino]

30 minutes ago, davide256 said:

Thanks for responding!

one can use Euphony Stylus server with UPNP, HQP or Stylus for endpoint transport. But LMS is via squeezelite, have to provide a separate LMS server

or run Roon with squeezelite option.

Can appreciate that UPNP might be a bit woolly to tame.  And thats without delving into gapless/ Openhome. But I think its an effort worth making to

increase market size with the Pulse mini.

 

 

I do understand that it may be another tick in the box but we also want the product to be as stable as possible... Decisions, decisions...

 

Anyway, how about running the PULSEmini in HQPlayer endpoint mode with Euphony?

[davide256]

 

 

4 minutes ago, nvitorino said:

 

 

I do understand that it may be another tick in the box but we also want the product to be as stable as possible... Decisions, decisions...

 

Anyway, how about running the PULSEmini in HQPlayer endpoint mode with Euphony?

 NAA is nice but HQPe  up-samples everything to configured DAC native bit depth when I stream from HQPe to NAA. I enjoy  music more

as fully NOS, bit depth same as original even if its 44/16.

[taipan254]

14 minutes ago, davide256 said:

 

 

 NAA is nice but HQPe  up-samples everything to configured DAC native bit depth when I stream from HQPe to NAA. I enjoy  music more

as fully NOS, bit depth same as original even if its 44/16.

can’t you just turn off all upsampling in hqp settings so it passes through the original signal? I thought some of the folks that did PGGB upsampling did this given hqp’s high sound quality despite no upsampling. 

[davide256]

Just now, taipan254 said:

can’t you just turn off all upsampling in hqp settings so it passes through the original signal? I thought some of the folks that did PGGB upsampling did this given hqp’s high sound quality despite no upsampling. 

At the server end, it can do so. But I haven't found a way to do that with NAA and am pretty sure Miska told me it couldn't be done.

[feelingears]

I’m a plug and play type: minimal software fiddling please-life is too short, and I’d rather listen to music on a solid, stable system rather than one I have to futz with. That said, it seems difficult to find this quality in both hw and sw, but mainly software. And, I too have found music more engaging at its original resolution or max 2x.

 

So after trying lower end Auralic and Lumin and Sonore, I just got a Volumio Rivo which I use with Audirvana and iTunes (El Cap server). I stream too but local is much better, any day. The signal is goosed via Uptone power and EtherRegen, so that undoubtedly is a factor. I don’t care for Volumio, it’s overrated IMO.

 

Auralic was a UPnP FAIL after they auto-updated their firmware and deprecated the original AirPlay, killing iTunes, and then when I tried it with Audirvana, it caused all kinds of random problems requiring hw reboot. Was told by Audirvana that Auralic does their UPnP weird but who knows?

 

Anyway, just my experience. I like the Rivo for its AES output and attention to internal signal and power quality. And I get to use software that the family and I prefer (although Audirvana lacks a decent remote-I’ve resorted to just using the laptop next to me).

 

My next step, if ever, is probably an Aurender because I prefer local files by far over streaming, so I might as well pony up for a high quality hardware and software product from the same company with a reputation for hw, sw, and importantly, SQ (sound quality)!