What would be the best alternative to an Uptone ISO REGEN?

[Gato]

Hello,

From the sound quality perspective, what would be the best alternative to an Uptone ISO REGEN?

The actual system is as follow:

PC with "SOtM tX-USBexp USB Card & sCLK-EX with the 50ohm master clock input"

-> Uptone ISO REGEN -> T+A DAC 200

-> Mutec REF10 SE120

 

[cjf]

On 8/6/2022 at 1:20 AM, Gato said:

Hello,

From the sound quality perspective, what would be the best alternative to an Uptone ISO REGEN?

The actual system is as follow:

PC with "SOtM tX-USBexp USB Card & sCLK-EX with the 50ohm master clock input"

-> Uptone ISO REGEN -> T+A DAC 200

-> Mutec REF10 SE120

 

Lots of options out there for D to D Converters. Two purpose built units that seem well reviewed are the ones below:

https://www.matrix-digi.com/store/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=65

https://www.berkeleyaudiodesign.com/alpha-usb

But....one question would be if you have tried to just plug USB Out straight to the TA DAC? Have you heard benefits to adding another device with another power supply and more cables to the signal chain?

[Gato]

Since purchasing the Uptone ISO REGEN "long" time ago, my system has evolved a lot. But I have never questioned the use of ISO REGEN. Following your suggestion, I plugged directly DAC and USB Card and .... it's great without REGEN.
Thanks for your post!

[Allan F]

13 hours ago, cjf said:

But....one question would be if you have tried to just plug USB Out straight to the T+A DAC? Have you heard benefits to adding another device with another power supply and more cables to the signal chain?

 

9 hours ago, Gato said:

Following your suggestion, I plugged directly DAC and USB Card and .... it's great without REGEN.
Thanks for your post!

 

While the ISO Regen has improved the SQ of many systems, T+A claims "complete galvanic separation" as one of the highlights of the DAC 200. @Gato's experience would appear to be consistent with both that claim and @cjf's suggestion, obviating the need for the ISO Regen and its associated hardware.

[Superdad]

2 hours ago, Allan F said:

While the ISO Regen has improved the SQ of many systems, T+A claims "complete galvanic separation" as one of the highlights of the DAC 200.

 

Just to be clear, there are not any DACs (except for Auralic Vega G2 and Phasure NOS1a which both use the no-longer-available Silanna ICE08USB high-speed USB isolator--as also used in our ISO REGEN) which have digital isolators BEFORE their USB input stage; Any DAC or DDC that you see advertising "galvanic isolation" of their USB input are doing so with digital isolators on the I2S lines--AFTER the USB input stage.  [That is because USB is a bi-directional protocol on a single pair of data wires and ALL digital isolator chips pass data in only one direction (yes, many isolators have more than one bit channel in the same package and one can choose the combination of directions; but that does not make them bi-directional). The USB protocol reverses data flow on a single wire pair.]

 

[Allan F]

On 8/9/2022 at 12:49 AM, Gato said:

Since purchasing the Uptone ISO REGEN "long" time ago, my system has evolved a lot. But I have never questioned the use of ISO REGEN. Following your suggestion, I plugged directly DAC and USB Card and .... it's great without REGEN.
Thanks for your post!

 

What isn't clear from your post is whether the T+A DAC 200 sounded better after removing the ISO REGEN or if it sounded just as good without the ISO REGEN.

[Gato]

1 minute ago, Allan F said:

 

What isn't clear from your post is whether, in your experience, the T+A DAC 200 sounded better without the ISO REGEN or sounded just as good without the ISO REGEN.

From my point of view, on the system in question, it sounds as good without ISO REGEN as with it.
PS:
Very subjectively, it seems to me that the sound is very slightly more "relaxed" without the ISO REGEN.

[Allan F]

13 hours ago, Superdad said:

Just to be clear, there are not any DACs (except for Auralic Vega G2 and Phasure NOS1a which both use the no-longer-available Silanna ICE08USB high-speed USB isolator--as also used in our ISO REGEN) which have digital isolators BEFORE their USB input stage; 

 

FWIW, this is how T+A describes the galvanic isolation on the DAC 200:

The analogue sound quality is crucially determined by consistent separation between the digital and analogue sections. This separation, which we term the “Digital Analogue Separation System”, utilises ultra-fast digital isolators from Silicon Labs to provide galvanic separation between the analogue and digital sections. Since it is vital to maintain this separation through the entire signal chain, the mains sections for the analogue and digital signal paths are also completely separated galvanically.

 

I have no reason to doubt or question your statement regarding the use of digital isolators BEFORE the USB input stage. OTOH, that does not necessarily mean that the ISO REGEN will result in an improvement in SQ in every system, or that @Gato's description of his experience upon removing the ISO REGEN from the signal path to the DAC 200 is therefore unreliable.