HQplayer 4 and Mac-mini M1

[MikePid]

3 hours ago, Schafheide said:

Given the quality of your system, are you searching for a new power supply for your M1 in that rabbit hole?

Ha ha, I wish. I had to settle for just a cryo power cord into a power conditioner…

 

Next to HQPlayer, the M1 mini ranks near the top for best bang for the buck for me.

 

btw, since you might be looking for an audiophile network switch too, I can recommend one, and it does very well when you add a good LPS to it. 🤣  And the nice folks on this forum would be happy to talk you into some expensive Ethernet cables too 🤑

 

I don’t think anyone has found the bottom of this rabbit hole yet.  Yet I don’t hear too many people regretting jumping into the hole either…

[MikePid]

I just updated my mini M1 from Big Sur to Monterey 12.1, and installed HQP 4.15.1.  Went smoothly.  Set DSD256/EC7v2/gauss-xla with 1x and guass-long for Nx, multicore DSP to checkmark, hit play, and WOW!  

 

@Miska is there a reason that multicore DSP set to grey (i.e. automatic) doesn't enable the multicore on M1, since that seems to optimal?  BTW, like others have said here, thanks for the early Christmas present!

[MikePid]

Aha! I knew you’d fall down the rabbit hole!  I have ultraRendu and I’m very happy with it. Plug and play, set and forget. 

[MikePid]

15 minutes ago, Schafheide said:

How right you are!

A long time ago, I decided that "When you buy your new car, stop reading magazine car road tests."

Maybe there is an AA for hifi addicts?

try this link for AA for hifi addicts 🤣:  https://community.roonlabs.com/t/audio-or-music-related-anecdotes-jokes-cartoons-anyone-2021/171732/474

[MikePid]

13 hours ago, Schafheide said:

MikePid

 

My UltraRendu has arrived.

1. I have not yet listened to it.

2. I note that it has HQPlayer NAA 4.1.1

3. Am I correct in assuming that the OS is on the SD card?

So -

1. Is NAA 4.1.1 the latest, if not should/how do I update it?

2. Should I install a Yussi OS + NAA on the SD card?

 

A rabbit hole dweller.

 

Congratulations on getting your ultraRendu!  This opens up a whole new level for your music!

 

The latest NAA is 4.1.1 and has not been updated by Jussi for almost 2 years.  Whenever a new NAA is released, Sonore will usually update SonicOrbitor shortly after.  Yes, the SD card is the OS, and you leave it in, because it boots off of that.  I suggest that you check for updates (Apps > Software Manager > Software Updates) to make sure everything is as current as possible.

 

I did try installing HQP OS on my ultraRendu, but I didn't notice much difference, so I just use the SonicOrbitor OS.

 

If you are feeding the USB signal to the ultraRendu from a Mac, you can set SDM Pack to None in HQP instead of DoP.

[MikePid]

22 minutes ago, Schafheide said:

Seen this?

https://kamaudio.com/TeraDak-Mac-mini-LPS

AAAHHHhhhh... (sound made while falling further down rabbit hole).

 

I've been hoping someone would do one of these for the MMM1, like Uptone did for earlier Mac minis:

https://uptoneaudio.com/products/mac-mini-dc-conversion-linear-fan-controller-kit-mmk

 

I think I know what I'm getting myself for xmas!  I've just emailed them to ask if the upgraded DC cable is already included.   The photos seem to show that it is.

[MikePid]

If someone can make and sell such a stripped down Linux box for US$600 that is plug&play like a MMM1 which can run DSD256/ECv2/xla, I'd be happy to buy one, especially if it could run HQP-OS.  I'm not into cobbling together motherboards, DDR5, GPUs, liquid cooling, and CPUs that are in short supply, then fiddling with BIOS settings, like on that other thread about "best CPU for HQPlayer" 😉.  Maybe an LPS for MMM1 won't help it much given all the other stuff going on inside the box but I'm willing to give it a try.  It worked for previous gen minis (which also tweaked the fan, although I doubt the fan has ever come on in my MMM1).  I'm not expecting to turn the MMM1 into a Taiko Extreme 🤣, but for US$900 (with LPS kit) it might be good bang for the buck.

[MikePid]

I'm sure Miska would be thrilled to have HQP running on MMM1 without MacOS, when the pieces are in place for that.  For me, I'm happy that Miska did the ARM port and recent tweaks to turn MMM1 into a low-cost game-changer already.

[MikePid]

After I get my TeraDak LPS kit for the MMM1, I might swap in my Paul Hynes SR4T with the Orange fuse to compare 🤔🤣

[MikePid]

Hmmm, maybe I should install TG-Pro on the MMM1 to see if the fan even comes on, and if it does, then disable it unless the temps do get up there to see if that affects SQ 🤔. Apple made some fanless laptops, and with the M1 chip being so energy efficient, it might be feasible. 

[MikePid]

@Schafheide Aww, come on now - that is not how a true audiophile thinks!  We would never buy anything ever knowing that the next new thing is just around the corner 🤣

 

My DAC only supports input up to DSD256, so I'm good until Miska adds ECv3 and gauss-xxxxxxxla 🤣.

 

I noticed that Kam Audio also sells the MMM1 mod without the LPS for under $100, so for anyone with a spare LPS lying around, that is a cheap upgrade.  I was looking at TeraDak LPSs a while ago for for my router, and supposedly they are good value; since I need an LPS for it anyway, I just ordered the whole kit 😁.  Had to do it before the chop on their certificate expires at the end of the month 😉

 

I'm sure that after I do the mod, it'll still be covered under AppleCare, right? 🤣

 

I'll have to figure out how to determine if it makes a difference.  It doesn't look like I can A/B the change.  Probably more like A-A-A-A....B.  I am still getting used to listening to DSD256/ECv2/xla because I can't believe my system is already sounding so good now.

 

 

[MikePid]

Well, I guess I'll find out in a couple of weeks if it does anything for my MMM1...

[MikePid]

6 minutes ago, jamesg11 said:

12v, 13A required?

The MMM1 is spec'd to draw under 40W max.  The TeraDak LPS that comes with the full kit is 200W, which seems a tad overkill.  I guess that means the LPS won't run hot.  I suppose a 12V/4A LPS would be minimum.

 

I did have a quick chat with UpTone, who confirmed that they do not plan to resurrect the MMK for the M1.  They are aware of people running the TeraDak M1 conversion kit with one rail from a JS-2, which would mean about 5-7A.  So I guess I won't be running a test with my PH-SR4T (2A continuous with 20A peak) unless I put a cheap fuse in first.  I've got the version that goes up to 19V, so that might mean it could handle a bit more at 12V.

[MikePid]

I think so too.  I don't remember seeing those in Big Sur, so maybe new to Monterey.  Mine only show up on the efficiency cores, which is good because that means HQPlayer can use all the Performance cores it wants.  My System CPU load is almost always under 1%

[MikePid]

Probably not.  Red usually means bad, but if you look at the main window, then it shows the System usage number in red.  Apple probably should have picked a different colour.  I'm not worried about it.  If I stop the music, I can make the red dots appear occasionally by moving the cursor around in Screen Sharing (and waking up the WindowServer task), otherwise they don't show up.  My guess is that the red dots are caused by Activity Monitor.  So if you quit Activity Monitor, they won't happen (but just like the the light in your fridge, you can't tell if it goes off if when you close the door 🤣).

[MikePid]

Haven't received shipping confirmation yet.  Probably due to holidays.  I upgraded to faster shipping.

 

[MikePid]

Lookie what Santa brought for my MMM1! 🎅

Wow, that is one hefty LPS!

[MikePid]

grrr, the screws on the bottom of the MMM1 are Torx security (anti-tamper), so my OWC Torx screwdrivers don't work.  I put in an order on Amazon for a basic iFixit toolkit, so I have to wait for that now.  So won't be until next week before I can try it.

 

no instructions in the box, so I had to watch a couple of MMM1 teardowns youtube videos.  This one seemed to be most helpful: https://youtu.be/R4ArjHz4gd4.  Does not seem like a 5-minute job, but seems doable.  There might be a way to temporarily leave the existing power supply in by leaving the unit flipped over and open (with fan unit unscrewed and out of the way but still connected), then just swapping the power connector, so that I can do some A...B...A...B testing before permanently mounting the TeraDak strip inside.  Probably need to be careful with the bank of caps in case they hold a lot of charge.

 

I'll provide some feedback to KamAudio to include the screwdrivers as part of the kit for the future.

[MikePid]

That "white shrunk object" is a bank of capacitors.  It replaces the long thin black strip that ends in a C8 connector.  It looks like with the C8 connector out, the 12V connector slides into one half of the figure-8 hole.  Probably need some black electrical tape to cover the other half of the hole to seal it off.

[MikePid]

TeraDak might not be a premium brand, but they have been around for a while and I have seen good reviews from some respected audiophiles over the past few years.  I will try my PH-SR4T later to compare.  In the meantime, the TeraDak LPS is plugged in and idling to burn in.  I couldn't find anything to load it with, but I suspect it will be mostly idling anyway with the MMM1.

 

The kit is US$30 less than buying the LPS and MMM1 module separately, so you're getting a hefty LPS for only US$240 with the kit. Hard to find any LPS at that price.  As long as it adds some SQ improvement, it will be worth it for me.

[MikePid]

There are 2 things that make the MMM1 kit simpler:

1. There are fewer parts inside the MMM1

2. The kit doesn't touch the fan circuit

 

The video link I posted yesterday should be good enough for instructions.  I might post photos if I get a chance like in that post once I get the right Torx R screwdrivers.  Not sure whether to post them here or on a new thread though.  There won't need to be as many photos.

[MikePid]

I installed TG-Pro for temperature monitoring and fan control on my MMM1.  I haven't had a chance to play with it much yet, but the fan is on steady at 1700rpm (+/-10rpm) regardless of whether the MMM1 is idle or maxed out all day long doing 44k>DSD256/ECv2/xla!  Temps occasionally peak at 75C on some performance cores but overall CPU average is usually around 60C when running HQPlayer at max.  Also, the temps drop back to room temperature within a minute or so after the music stops.  Also, there are a bunch of "power manager dies" which hover around 60C, so it will be interesting to see what happens to these after the LPS mod.

 

I'm curious to find out what happens if I shut off the fan, and whether that improves SQ, although until I get the LPS installed on it it might not be noticeable.  Apple is able to make some laptops work without a fan.  Also, if the fan is needed, whether using TG-Pro to fix the fan speed to minimize the +/-10rpm PWM fluctuations of the fan control improves SQ; probably not, but worth a try later (assuming TG-Pro is able to lock in the fan speed better than MacOS).  Or maybe replacing the fan with one driven off a separate power supply, or else setting up a fixed-speed fan control (and turning off Mac's fan control) to eliminate the PWM fan control like UpTone's MMK did on earlier models?

 

Also I will need to look into whether the fan needs to kick in more during boot up (although that is such a short interval, and usually the CPUs will start at room temperature anyway).  However a reboot only happens after power failures or a MacOS update, so not very often.

 

Anxiously waiting to get my iFixit Torx security screwdrivers so I can take my MMM1 apart to install the LPS kit...

[MikePid]

I just a couple of start-up tests of MMM1 for temps and fans.  A reboot took about 15 seconds, and TG-Pro showed all CPU temps stayed under 40C.  Power-up took about 25 seconds (!) including reconnecting Screen Sharing, and auto-starting HQPlayer and TG-Pro, and again no temps hit 40C.  Maybe there was more intense CPU usage before TG-Pro auto-started, but in that short time I can't imagine it having much effect on temps.

 

So maybe there is hope for an easy audiophile MMM1 fan control alternative?  In the MMK, UpTone said the PWM fan control was noisy, electrically, which is why they designed their own linear fan controller for the earlier Mac minis.  But I'm thinking that setting the fan at a fixed speed should be an adequate solution if the MMM1 is just used for HQPlayer.  (Maybe fan control is needed if the MMM1 is being used for GPU-intensive stuff like 4K video editing or gaming, or when Jussi enables the GPU for poly-sinc-guass-xxxxxla and ext9?)

 

As an extra precaution, TG-Pro can be set to send an email if the temps go above some threshold.  MacOS likely would throttle the CPUs anyway if they get too hot, and you'll notice that because you'll hear drop-outs while listening to your music.

 

Any electrical hackers out there who could provide some guidance?  I'm thinking:

- Level 1: use the existing MMM1's power to the fan, and insert a potentiometer to allow the fan speed to be set, then use TG-Pro to disable MMM1's fan control to hopefully kill any PWM signal to the fan (and also check that the manual fan speed is set enough to keep the temps down).

- Level 2: as above, but with a small external power supply (probably could even be SMPS or ifi iPower plug).

[MikePid]

Well, I got the iFixit toolkit today, opened up the MMM1, disconnected the Apple PSU (but left it physically installed), then connected  the TeraDak kit, and that took all of 5 minutes.  But I couldn't get the MMM1 to boot.  I took it apart and realized that the connector did not seat with one of the pins and bent it away.  So I straightened it back and also the connector, and tried again.  Nope.  (TeraDak's connector is made of softer plastic than the Apple one.)  I checked that there is 12V coming out of the DC cable.  I have sent an email to KamAudio for help.

 

Fortunately, the Apple PSU was able to boot it again.

 

See photos of the open-heart surgery.

 

[MikePid]

The 40C was only after power up.  I was trying to see if there was a heavy CPU demand for that, like on intel CPUs, but there wasn’t.  Both my 2012 15” and my work 2019 16” MacBook Pros kick the fans on when powering up.

 

I’m working with TG-Pro support to see if there is a way to turn off the fan if temps are low, but so far they don’t think so.