exaSound E68 Stereo DSD512 and 8-Channel DSD256 DAC

[Desertpilot]

Not sure who might be interested but I successfully tested playing a Blu-ray opera (actually a few different operas) through the S88.  As it turns out, the S88 will indeed play DTS-MA files.  I had JRiver set for music, as I usually do, per exaSound instructions.  No changes needed to the audio setup.  I did make appropriate changes to the video setup.  I ran an HDMI cable (for video) from my server to my projector.  Audio was routed normally via USB to the S88.  I played both the stereo PCM (2.0) audio track and the DTS-MA (5.1) audio track.  Each of them played properly (correct channel placement) through the S88.  I did have to adjust each channel's volume settings for balance between channels.  One other clunky issue is menus.  The JRiver app was pretty useless for video (works great for audio).  I had my server mouse at my MLP and I could control S88 volume.  But using the Blu-ray menus was hit and miss.  Sometimes the mouse was good and sometimes I had to go over to the server keyboard.  I'll likely get a Bluetooth keyboard.

 

This surprised me as I didn't think the S88 would decode the DTS-MA surround track.  Now that I think about it, maybe the S88 doesn't decode it.  In JRiver in the bitstreaming dropdown dialog, I have DSD selected.  I don't have any of the other codecs selected so maybe JRiver is decoding the DTS-MA tracks.  It doesn't matter, I'm getting the full benefit of the S88 with my opera movies.  The S88 showed PCM 24/48kHz for both stereo and surround.  Movies will continue through my pre/pro (using a different server).  But, it was great fun to play these operas through the S88.

 

Marcus

[Desertpilot]

Happy New Year everyone!

 

I am planning on building a new music server.  All of my music is on an external SSD hard drive (files are DSD, PCM, DXD, stereo and mostly surround).   I am currently using my laptop (Core i9, 9th gen) as my music server.  I am using the laptop's USB output to feed my S88.  I use JRiver and ROON as my music players.  No DSP except speaker distance corrections.  Music plays just fine. 

 

I've done a fair bit of research to determine the parts I will need.  But, given that I own the S88 with all its magic capabilities to take digital data via USB and make sure it is "bit perfect", do I need to overbuild my new server?  Apparently, a great many music server enthusiasts install a JCAT USB card (very expensive) with a separate linear power supply (again, very expensive) to feed their DACs with a "perfect" data stream.  Is this really necessary?

 

What is your experience?  A quality computer build is important, I get that.  I might even be convinced to use a linear power supply for the motherboard and CPU to reduce noise.  But a separate USB card seems excessive to feed data to the S88.

 

Thanks, Marcus

[Desertpilot]

3 hours ago, ted_b said:

I'll be unpacking and setting up my s88 FINALLY here soon (long time e28 user and dear friend of George's), but I cannot, for the life of me, figure out why anyone would use USB when the s88 has a clean ethernet input.  I may be missing something obvious.  My use will be to have the s88 as my HQPlayer NAA/dac combo for multichannel files.

Thanks.  I have never used the LAN feature.  I should try it.  You sound pretty certain LAN is the better way to go.

[Desertpilot]

I primarily use JRiver and send files via USB to the S88 (using the exaSound ASIO driver, of course).  It works, for me, perfectly well.  I have ROON and use it occasionally, especially if I want to listen to QOBUZ.  ROON's recent update has improved it (processing is now stable with no audio dropouts).  Roon also sends files via USB to the S88.  I have speaker distance corrections incorporated for both JRiver and for ROON.  Both players handle it with no issues.  No other DSP.  I use an Android pad to control either JRiver or ROON/Qobuz from my MLP.

 

For me, everything is working so I am reluctant to make changes.  Personally, I love music reproduction on my system.  I was just curious, as I contemplate building a new music server, about the value of an upgraded USB port.  I can always add it later so I am likely to go with  the motherboard USB port.

 

An interesting discussion.  Thank you.

 

Marcus

[Desertpilot]

4 hours ago, Kal Rubinson said:

 

There's also the potential difference between wired ethernet and WiFi. 🤐

 

For me, everything is wired ethernet.

[Desertpilot]

4 hours ago, ted_b said:

Marcus,

I would be interested in you trying the s88 as a Roon endpoint (i.e connect via LAN and point Roon core to it).  It would be an interesting exercise to hear whether USB from Roon machine sounds any different than the s88 getting it's Roon instructions internally as a Roon endpoint.

 

I've never tried this approach.  If I do this, I assume I would still use ROON on my music server to play music.  I'll give it a try maybe tomorrow.

[Desertpilot]

I finally got to test out LAN input to my S88.  I switched from USB to LAN and using ROON selected the DAC endpoint (different from the S88 USB).  It worked just fine.  I played a variety of multichannel music (PCM/DXD/DSD) and walked over the the DAC's lcd screen.  It showed the proper file format and 8 channel.

 

-- I could not tell a sonic difference but I will continue to switch back and forth for further listening tests.

-- A nice feature is that using my Android pad, logged in to the S88 and selecting LAN configuration, I could adjust not only overall volume but channel trims.

-- I could leave the USB cable plugged in and simply switch inputs on the S88 page and switching the ROON endpoint.  Very easy to do.

 

I did check out several discussions about this on various forums, including the ROON community.  As is normal in discussion groups there are lovers and haters of each connection method.  So not much help from users.  This was an interesting exercise.

 

Marcus

[Desertpilot]

Today, I tested out the headset jack.  Works fine.  It did not cut out my speakers so I simply switched my Coleman switcher to an unused input.  Speakers went out and headset still engaged.  Music selection and volume control on my pad worked just fine over the headsets.  Personally, I am not a headset person but I did want to test it out.

 

I've concluded that USB out from my server to the S88 is preferred over the LAN configuration.

 

Thanks Marcus

[Desertpilot]

Hello everyone.  I am coming up on a year of owning the S88 (not the Mark II version).  The DAC continues to work flawlessly.  I also purchased the Teddy Pardo power supply.  I'd like to list my thoughts using this DAC in my system.  All music and videos are ripped to my server.

 

1.  The first upgrade was purchasing the Coleman Audio 7.1SW Eight Channel Switcher COL-71SW.  This allowed me to go direct from the DAC to my amplifier.  I have never felt the need for additional pre-amplification.  I use my system for both music and movies.  The switch allows me to include my pre-amp for movies.

2.  I use JRiver as my primary player.  I also have ROON but I am likely to cancel it since I almost never use it.  JRiver gives me everything I need (including video playback).  I also have QOBUZ but I have yet to find multichannel music.  It does let me sample albums before purchase.

3.  Since I switch between music (using the DAC) and movies (using my pre-amp), JRiver needed two sets of settings.  I discovered JRiver's ZONES which greatly simplified playback.  One ZONE is for movies (configured for HDMI bitstreaming).  And I have two zones for music through the DAC, one for standard playback and another configured to remix music from stereo to 5.1.  These zones can be switched using JRemote2.

4.  I own quite a few BluRay Opera and concert discs (copied from disc to my server).  I send the audio signal through the DAC.  The video plays fine (I have my pre-amp set to pass through video to my projector from my server).  All my opera discs automatically play multichannel which is great.  I do have my server mouse handy because I can right click and select subtitles.  BluRay audio discs (almost all are from 2L) do require I select the audio track so I keep my keyboard handy too.  I have also downloaded quite a few concert videos from YouTube and Vimeo.  Of course, these are stereo so I select the remix to 5.1 ZONE.  Not high rez audio but I am happy with the result.  A great many of these videos are not available anywhere else - and they are often taken down after several weeks.  Several are later released in SACD and I do have both.

5.  I do rely on reviews to select high quality audio or concert videos.  For audio, I primarily use HRAudio.net or Hurwitz's Classics Today (either their website or YouTube videos).  For concert/opera videos I use HDVDARTS.

 

The system is very stable, no audio dropouts or any other issues.  Since I am retired (going on two years now) the system gives me many hours of music enjoyment.  Using the DAC forced me to discover how to properly set it all up.

 

Thanks for listening.

Marcus

[Desertpilot]

6 hours ago, Kal Rubinson said:

There is multichannel music on Qobuz but you cannot play it through their app or via a browser.  You can, afaik, only play them via Roon, at this time.  Too bad for us Jriver fans. 

 

That would be an advantage to ROON but since I have yet to find any surround music I want to play, I have abandoned the effort.  Curious, ROON allows speaker distance correction to DSD files but JRiver does not.  However, JRiver allows not only speaker distance corrections but crossover settings.  Low note organ music really rattles the subwoofers in my speakers so I cross over at 40Hz to my two SVS Ultra 13 subs.  But still, JRiver applies nothing to DSD files.  I'm not ready to go the Digital Signal Processing route.

[Desertpilot]

5 hours ago, Steve Bruzonsky said:

I also luv my s88, which I've owned since early 2021!

 

Has anyone done the upgrade of the s88 to the latest version 2 and if so, comments on performance vs version 1.

 

I've thought about getting the upgrade.  But, IMO, I don't think I could hear the difference.  My S88 is just superb.  Since my system is dual use it is located in our "great" room.  The noise floor is pretty high which also argues against spending $$$ on the upgrade.  Yes, at 4AM, when my wife and our dogs are asleep and I turn off all appliances, it gets very quiet.  But, I must admit, I'm pretty lazy about it and just turn up the volume.

[Desertpilot]

On 4/26/2022 at 12:21 PM, exa said:

A new firmware update for the exaSound s88 and s82 DACs and the Delta Server is available for download. To start the update go to the Settings page of the web user interface and tap or click the "Check Updates" button.  New and improved features include:  Redesigned Web user interface with touch-screen support; Light and Dark user interface themes; Channel volume trimming levels can be saved to profiles and reloaded; New System Info screen and more.

 Thanks for the update.  Much more pleasant view with dark mode (my preference).  Note:  I performed the update but no change.  I turned the S88 off for several minutes and back on with no change.  I had to restart my PC and there it was, the new interface.  A nice new feature is the ability to turn the S88 off or restart right from the new interface.

 

Marcus

[Desertpilot]

On 4/25/2022 at 5:34 AM, Kal Rubinson said:

Why not?  I understand that, in principle, you may not want to transcode the DSD to PCM but Roon is doing a lot of data manipulation in order to "stay as DSD."  Transcoding in Jriver for DSP may be equivalent.  (I do it.)

Hi Kal, and thank you.  I've thought about this for a few days and concluded that you are correct.

 

I changed JRiver to "Bitstreaming: None".  JRiver now converts DSD to PCM and applies room correction.  JRiver recommended 176.4 sample rate.  It plays fine.  No hesitation, delays or other issues.  Room correction includes speaker distances and a crossover of 40Hz.  My speakers don't like low organ notes so I set the crossover to resolve the issue.

 

Of course, many would be "aghast" that I would convert DSD to PCM.  There are a number of folks who believe DSD is close to analogue.  Also, theoretically, the chip in the S88 is optimum for DSD.  Having said all that, I can't hear a difference.  For me, the music converted to PCM sounds as good as it always did.  What I get in return is my room correction and crossover settings which I think is more important.  A lot of my music is downloaded from Chandos and eClassical (BIS) which both use 24/96 PCM format.  I've also downloaded many DXD files.  They all sound great to me.

 

I'll create a "Zone" to apply this setting to DSD files only.  It is very easy to switch zones in JRemote.

 

Marcus

[Desertpilot]

Folks who post on this thread are multichannel fanatics, like me.  That's why we invested in the S88.  In fact, my vey first foray into surround classical music came from recommendations in Kal's "Music in the Round" feature in Stereophile magazine (and his praise of the exaSound DACs).  He's retired now and so am I.  So, I thought I would offer my list of superb surround classical music that will surely "work" your system hard!  All are available for download in high resolutions (DSD, DXD and PCM).  I'm no music theory expert, like Kal.  But, I can attest to the incredible sonics.  I add notable reviews to make sure the performance is also worthy.

 

If you're interested, take a look at my list on the classical music circle.  Page 1 includes a link to each actual review:  Demonstration Worthy Classical Recordings.

 

Thanks for listening

Marcus 

[Desertpilot]

Hi Everyone,

 

No sense letting this DAC thread die out.  I appreciate the S88's ability to decode not only multichannel but DXD up to 32/352.8.  More and more music is recorded and mastered in DXD, especially classical.  I have downloaded a couple albums in 32/352.8 but my understanding is that this requires your server to do "floating point" calculations.  Also, it is only available in WAV format.  I decided I am happy enough with FLAC 24/352.8 (which is the DXD format offered by Native DSD).  The S88 will easily decode either 32 or 24 bit DXD.

 

Why DXD?  If it's the original recording format, that's my choice.  But, more important to me, JRiver will apply speaker corrections (distance, crossover, etc) to DXD files and not DSD.  There is some "feeling" by other "audiophiles" that DSD is the closest digital format to analog.  I've compared both formats extensively now and I don't hear "analog" quality in DSD, so I'm sticking with DXD.

 

My most recent music purchase in DXD (24/352.8) is Shostakovich Symphony No. 13 in B Minor, Op. 113 ‘Babi Yar’ released in 2020.  Recorded in DXD.  (Pentatone PTC5186618).  Russian music sung by Russians.  The male choir and bass soloist are excellent.  The composition is emotionally draining.  Available at Native DSD Shostakovich Symphony No. 13 in B Minor, Op. 113 ‘Babi Yar’  It is a joy to me to listen to this album in its original recording format.

 

Thanks

Marcus

[Desertpilot]

7 hours ago, ted_b said:

As a founding member of NativeDSD, I couldn't agree more.  The S88 does wonderful music in DXD (and DSD versions too 👍 ).  Thx

Thanks Ted.  LOL...I spend way too much on music at Native DSD.  But, I am very grateful that music I want is available for download.

 

Marcus

[Desertpilot]

Hi folks,

 

I've been "fussing" around with JRiver converting DSD to PCM so room correction is performed.  Why?  Currently, I have distance and crossover set in JRiver Speaker Correction.  It's working for PCM music files and it also works when DSD files are converted to PCM!  I am in the process of analyzing room response using Audiolense XO.  Once measurements are complete, Mitch Barnett (Accurate Sound) will construct the filters.  I'd like these filters to work on all files (including DSD).

 

-- I created a "zone" for native music files per ExaSound installation instructions.  No issues up through DXD 352.8 and DSD 256.  If I use this zone to play DSD files they play normally, as expected, but JRiver does not include speaker correction.

 

-- I set another "zone" to convert DSD to PCM.  I changed the sample rate from "no change" to 352.8.  I changed bitstreaming to none.  Everything else is set the same per ExaSound installation instructions.  When playing a dsd64 file, it is rapidly modified and plays with speaker corrections (see screenshot).  When playing a dsd256 file, there is less than a second of buffering but plays perfectly with speaker corrections (see screenshot).  I know it says "convert from 5.0 to 5.1" but that is just for channel mapping.  This does not route any sound  through my subwoofers.

 

I hope this allows me to use my new DSP filters for all music files.  Does my conversion process look okay to you?

 

Thanks!  Marcus

 

 

 

 

[Desertpilot]

A little help.

 

I have two subwoofers.  Currently, I use the LFE output (XLR) of my S88 to a Y splitter and then on to each subwoofer.  Thus, each subwoofer plays the same LFE content.  However, I never use the SL and SR outputs on my S88.  Is it possible to hook up each subwoofer separately using the unused outputs and still get LFE to the subwoofers?

 

Example, left sub connects to SL channel and right sub connects to SR channel.

 

Somehow, I would need to route the LFE channel information to the the SL and SR outputs on my S88.  Can this be done?  I looked at both the S88 owner's manual (I can edit the names of the channels is all I can do) and JRiver Wiki.  No luck.

 

Why?  I will be analyzing my room with Audiolense XO soon and I'd like to analyze each subwoofer separately.

 

Thanks

Marcus

 

 

[Desertpilot]

3 hours ago, Desertpilot said:

A little help.

 

I have two subwoofers.  Currently, I use the LFE output (XLR) of my S88 to a Y splitter and then on to each subwoofer.  Thus, each subwoofer plays the same LFE content.  However, I never use the SL and SR outputs on my S88.  Is it possible to hook up each subwoofer separately using the unused outputs and still get LFE to the subwoofers?

 

Example, left sub connects to SL channel and right sub connects to SR channel.

 

Somehow, I would need to route the LFE channel information to the the SL and SR outputs on my S88.  Can this be done?  I looked at both the S88 owner's manual (I can edit the names of the channels is all I can do) and JRiver Wiki.  No luck.

 

Why?  I will be analyzing my room with Audiolense XO soon and I'd like to analyze each subwoofer separately.

 

Thanks

Marcus

 

 

Nevermind.   I figured it out.  JRiver (using Parametric Equalizer) offers a remapping capability.  I can "copy" the LFE channel to SR and again to SL channels.  I will test this out but wanted to let everyone know there is this capability.

[Desertpilot]

5 hours ago, Steve Bruzonsky said:

Note that the XLR and single ended outputs of the s88 are active at the same time. For music with my s88, I use a splitter with the XLR sub output to 2 REL subs in front, and a splitter with the single ended sub output to the 2 REL subs in the back of the room (using REL's transmitters to get the sub signal to the back subs).

 

Hey - just noticed this site where you can download spatial audio Auro-3d and also 9.1 32 bit DXD music! Neat!

Spatial Audio Downloads • TRPTK

 

Has anyone done the s88 upgrade, msrp $1380, to version 2 yet?

 

Hi Steve.  I love TRPTK's music.  I must have a dozen of their albums.  I tried ATMOS and Auro 3D using 2L's releases on Blu-Ray.  I really didn't get much from it as it's just ambience.  I prefer using my S88 for 5.1.

 

Epic fail today on my channel mapping journey.  Yes.  I can get the sub signal to my side left and side right channels for independent trim control.  Using the test tones (requiring I use 7.1) in JRiver, I can get tones through all the speakers.  BUT, when I went to play music only my front three speakers were active.  I spent the entire day swapping cable inputs, outputs and changing settings.  Nothing worked properly until I went back to my original setup with a Y connector.  This was just a "nice to have" capability.  I gave up.  Funny, along the way I completely confused myself over "side surround" and "back surround".

 

Converting DSD to PCM is working like a charm.  Speaker correction is employed.  The ExaSound channel trim VU meters show amplitude by each channel.  One victory is enough for me.

[Desertpilot]

What are you getting from your rear surround speakers?

 

I have my speakers set up in ITU format, 3 speakers up front and two speakers behind me.  No side surround speakers.  Brendon Heinst, recording/mastering engineer from TRPTK, confirmed to me that this is how he mixes surround music.  I suspect that this is the standard.  During setup I used JRiver test tones, trim settings on my S88 (master volume set to 100%) and my handheld SPL meter to make sure I had equal volume through each speaker to the MLP.

 

I can't hear anything from my rear speakers.  They are supposed to provide ambient sound to recreate the concert hall experience.  What do I do?  I turn up the rear speaker volume using S88 trim controls.  This requires precision.  Too much gain and the rear speakers "compete" with my front speakers.  Too little gain and the rear speakers disappear.  Bert van Der Wolf from Northstar says on his website, he uses "Boundary Layer Microphones" (BLM) which he developed with "Sonodore microphones". Essentially, these microphones can better receive "ambient" sounds during a recording session and are mixed to the rear channels of a 5.1 surround system. He says the SPL of the rear speakers can be increased without competing with the frontal soundstage.  I have a couple of his recent releases and, Yes, I can increase rear speaker gain without too much interference with my front speakers.

 

I read reviews that praise some recordings for their concert hall "presence" through their rear speakers.  I can get an immersive experience, especially with Bert's recordings, but I still don't really get a concert hall experience.  I'll keep fiddling with S88 trim controls.  But, I'm curious about how you all feel about your rear surround speakers' contribution to your surround experience.

 

Marcus

[Desertpilot]

Thanks to the ExaSound folks!  Both the new ExaSound N1 ASIO driver for Windows and the S88 firmware upgrade installed without any issues.  I have not tried all the features yet, but they are there.  It is comforting to know that ExaSound will improve their products through these upgrades.  

[Desertpilot]

I've enjoyed fooling around with the new preset function.  Works perfect.  I wish the list of presets were available on the "web dashboard".  I like to select music using my Android Pad through JRemote2.  I would like to also bring up the ExaSound web page to select a preset.  My music server is quite a distance away from my listening position.  My server is connected to my S88 via USB.

 

What am I doing now?  I have a laptop that lets me "remote" to my server (both are Windows 11).  It's a bit clunky using the laptop rather than my pad.  But, it works.

 

While setting up the trim presets, I decided to answer my own question about the value of my rear surround speakers.  I was playing a few of my new albums recorded/mastered by Bert van der Wolf.  He masters music in 5.1.  I turned the rear surround trims down to nothing.  Whoa!  The overall volume of my system (employing just the front three speakers) decreased dramatically.  I raised the master volume control to get it back to a similar loudness and the music sounded thin.  I began raising the two back surrounds and music was restored to full fidelity.  Let me not disparage the need for rear surrounds again!  Audiophile stuff is bewildering for sure.  I don't hear my rear surrounds like my front speakers but now I know now they create a fulfilling sound in my listening space.

 

I set one preset to "normal".  This sets all the trims to an equal volume (established using my handheld SPL meter).  No more having to look up the values if I need to go back to normal volume.

Another preset for full orchestra.

Another preset for solo instruments (solo piano, for example).

 

I love having this capability.

 

My recent music acquisitions (all are 5.1 DXD):

Hannes Minnaar:  Shostakovich: 24 Preludes and Fugues 

Hannes Minnaar:  Bach: Goldberg Variations

Simone Lamsma (violin):  Shostakovich: Violin Concerto No. 1

 

Marcus

[Desertpilot]

Hello everyone and Happy Holidays!

 

Since we (ExaSound DAC owners) are audio enthusiasts, I thought this information would be helpful.

 

Up until a few months ago, I primarily relied on Native DSD for high resolution downloads.  In fact, Native DSD began offering DXD resolution for many titles which is wonderful.  But, recently I have gone to two producer's websites for even more resolution choices.  I hope you find this interesting.

 

Bert van der Wolf, Northstar Recording, has completely revamped his own website:  The Spirit of the Turtle.  His recordings are usually made available through Challenge Classics.  However, on his own website he is making available all his work in a variety of formats including, DXD, Binaural (headphones) and Spatial Audio (9.1 format).  He is very responsive to inquiries.  I emailed him about downloading a collection in surround DXD, the Mendelssohn Symphonies (de Vriend), and he wrote back it was an older recording so he hadn't gotten to "rendering" the master DXD file in surround.  Just a few days later he wrote me that he posted the DXD surround files with this comment:  "Thanks for pointing out this silly fact, it triggered some more action on this side to finally update more productions to their original source format. It will be many though, so is a lot of work...

Apparently Surround is getting more common gradually after all and the appreciation for my preferred format DXD is also growing. A surprise I must admit..."

 

You may want to read his blog post on his new Binaural format for headphones.  I purchased one album and used headsets plugged into the S88 headphone jack.  Pretty impressive.  Binaural Playback.

 

Here's an even more interesting development over at TRPTK.  Brendon Heinst is the owner and recording/mastering engineer.  In fact, he used to work with Bert van der Wolf before opening his own company.  He made a BLOG post this past October called:  Lower Resolution, Better Sound Quality?  That got my attention.  It is a great read and very worthwhile to understand what we are sending to our S88 DAC.  Here is the end result of his revamping his entire production chain:  "In almost all cases, we recommend the 352.8kHz 24bit FLAC file. It’s relatively compact, and since it’s mastered at 64bit and then converted using Saracon the sound quality is utterly amazing. If you’re adventurous and would like to experiment with adding your own DSP, sample rate conversion, dithering or noise shaping, you can check out the 64bit floating point ones, since that will save you at least one conversion step in the process. It’s actually that simple."

 

I have a few TRPTK albums downloaded from TRPTK.  He says they've remastered, using the new process, all albums, so I will re-download them and take a listen.  When I buy another album, I'll evaluate if the new production chain does indeed improve sound quality.

 

Technology changes in music production and reproduction continue to advance.  Exciting times.

 

Marcus