Grounding

[ASRMichael]

I found this document useful to get my head around grounding. 

GroundingV6 (1).pdf

[ASRMichael]

1 hour ago, Speedskater said:

The above Russ Andrews paper is a mix of good stuff, stuff that needs a lot of editing (of errors) and totally wrong stuff.

This is your 2nd post without elaborating further. You clearly know what you talking about, so how about you enlighten us who know much less than you? Would be appreciated 

[ASRMichael]

Does anyone have a earth/ground spike in their garden? 
 

My local Electrician has just installed dedicated mains with its own separate earthing to ground spike/rod.
 

I appreciate the target is 0v, but not realistic I’m told.
 

what would be a good target reading to hit? Once I have Reference point, I can start planning on Earth Ground pit using magnesium sulfar materials.  
 

I’m in uk

[ASRMichael]

Electrician has just taken a reading & said ground spike is reading 25v / ohms. Is that good/bad?

[ASRMichael]

2 hours ago, One and a half said:

Is the new ground spike bonded to the existing ground spike?

No i have completely isolated from my house ground (in theory no neighbours polluting me) , now just using ground spike. 

[ASRMichael]

To help my question. See what Electricians have done. 

 

As you can see the Earth spike is 25ohms, presume I want to get this down low as possible to 5ohms or something?

 

 

[ASRMichael]

@barrows

 

In your opinion, which one do you think would be best?

 

1) Separate earth Rod/spike  for all HIFI Ground. Not connected to property ground. Resistance from earth rod/spike say is 10ohms

 

Or

 

2) Connect HiFI to property ground (bonded/Neutral) 0.25Ohms

 

I've read so much there is different views, lower resistance is obviously better but not at the expense of isolating your hifi ground from your property.  

[ASRMichael]

8 hours ago, sandyk said:

 

 That low a resistance is not normally achievable without a network of connected earth rods, and will substantially degrade under prolonged dry conditions. 25 ohms is a more realistic target based on my testing experience in this area with Telstra (Au.) 

Hi, that’s what I currently have with one rod. 25ohms. I have perfect ground conditions to achieve this, and enough rain here in the uk. 
 

I am planning Star configuration next month to get it down to 10ohms. Fingers crossed. Also add magnesium sufar to each pit. 
 

I’ll never know the difference in SQ until I listen to property earth versus ground rod. Maybe do the test in the future. 

[ASRMichael]

Update - Had electrician round today to put in 3 times as thick ground spike, also now 8 feet down in the ground, plus another spike. 
 

I managed to get my ohms down from 25ohms to 2.22 ohms. We were both really surprises we got that low. 
 

Really happy at this level. 

[ASRMichael]

4 minutes ago, MarkusBarkus said:

...that is remarkably low, @ASRMichael. Interesting to remeasure in your opposite/driest season. BTW: did you add anything to the soil in the area, or just drive the rods? 

Just drive rod in. Need to get myself a tester when summer comes again. 
 

call me mad but I’ve got a plumber to install garden pipe above the rod. So turn on for 5 minutes should keep it moist! Audiophile Gardener, that’s a new one! 

[ASRMichael]

2 minutes ago, MarkusBarkus said:

...all about the "marginal gains." Now you need a device that measures the resistance and automatically turns on the hose. 😉

Your thinking is my thinking! All possible! 😂! 

[ASRMichael]

Hi all. I think I know the answer to this question but would rather triple check before I blow up my speakers. 
 

I’m planning grounding the speaker terminals on my amp (black being the ground). That I get that. 

 

However Sonus Faber speaker terminals are red & white. Currently I have speaker cable connected as follows;

 

Amp - Black > White Speaker Terminal.
Amp red > Red Speaker terminal
 

Am I right in thinking the white is the negative (as black on my amp)? 
 

I appreciate may be basic question to answer but need to check first

 

any comments appreciated

[ASRMichael]

Thanks for info. Let me explain 

 

My DAC is RCA to amp

 

Amp Black - Speaker white Note via spade connectors. 
 

I’ll then connect RCA type connector to black speaker terminal. The other end will go to my earth spike/rod via this.

 

yellow connector goes to earth spike, black speaker terminal to black connector. Affectively action as Entreq like product. 
 

Hopefully makes sense? 

 

 

[ASRMichael]

Using the above device, i have connected the following

 

All metal case work

Edge Router & EtherRegen

Mains Conditioner, I made a plug with just ground wire & plugged into 1st socket on my conditioner. 
 

next will be my speakers. 

[ASRMichael]

I’ve update my response if already read it, it didn’t make sense. Should now

[ASRMichael]

9 hours ago, Speedskater said:

If he is connecting it directly to a Planet Earth grounding system what he is achieving is very dangerous!

Any connection to Planet Earth must flow thru the Safety Ground/Protective Earth back to thew main breaker box and only then can it connect to the single Earthing system.

Just to clarify what the election has done. Which is certified in the UK. 
 

Separated from my house supply>From my Meter>60A Breaker>6AWG>Junction box (earth cable ends)>live & Neutral>Consumer Unit (has RCBO’s) > ground/earth Rod. 
 

I believe it called TT system, having the RCBO’s are the required for safety & not having a switched fuse for the consumer unit. 
 

I actually send the certificates to my insurance company, to which they were happy with paperwork I supplied them. 
 

Now prior to 18th addition regulations you could not connected the casework direct to earth spike. The junction box above is required to meet regulations. 
 

 

[ASRMichael]

Thanks for all the comments. Few more questions, as maybe I’ve taken a step too far? 
 

My original plan was to drain and RF/EMI/Noise from all metal case work in my system. which is what I’ve done.
 

Then Next plan was to add a plug to my mains conditioner to first socket which had ground wire only. This goes back to earth spike via the attached photo. I was told to do this by the company that sold me this devices. But I was thinking myself this is making a ground loop. 
 

But thinking about this now. Is what I’m doing is not just the same as what JCAT are doing with this device? it’s reducing noise by connecting back to ground? 
 

https://jcat.eu/product/usb-lan-ground-conditioner/

 

Now I’m thinking about doing the same on amplifier negative speaker terminal, hence the question above. 
 

effectively what I’m trying to achieve is reducing noise, RF, EMI. Thinking about this now, and considering the earth loop. Maybe to reduce the noise, RF, EMI, I need an additional earth spike for this. Rather than using the safety ground on plug that is connected to an earth spike/rod. This way it will be isolated from each other, and not actually creating a loop. Instead it will give an the noise, EMI etc isolated path back to ground. 

Maybe is the 2nd isolated rod that is the missing link? 
 

cheers

 

 

 

 

 

[ASRMichael]

10 hours ago, barrows said:

Ummm, why?  If I am actually following you, your approach has both created ground loops, and defeated the isolation provided by the EtherRegen, this will result in a noisier system.

The only reason to add "new" grounds to any audio component is if that component was designed improperly in the first place.  If your components use three prong AC cabling, the third prong is already your ground, adding an additional ground connection creates a loop (because the two ground connections almost certainly have differing impedance to ground) and will encourage the flow of current through that loop, raising the noise floor of your system.
Most of the Audiophile ground tweaks are ill advised, and certainly should not be experimented with unless one has a very good knowledge of electronics and of how their individual components are grounded in the first place.

I am not against tweaks, but one needs to know technically what is actually going on to make any kind of ground effectively; for example, I ground my Mac Mini to shunt the high impedance leakage current from its internal SMPS, but I do this because I already know that it is not grounded by any connection in stock form: the ground wire which I added is the only ground which the Mac Mini "sees" so it cannot form a current loop.

Thanks for the info. question? what is the external ground connector for on the Etherregen then? Cheers

[ASRMichael]

It's fine I trawled through the EtherRegen manual and looked at previous emails. 

 

From my email regarding my LPS

 

Re. my PSUs, in most cases it is best to leave the 0V of the outputs separate from ground. One notable exception is for an EtherRegen, that likes to have a ground connection at the ER end for best performance I believe. In this particular setup, I think it is best if you run a dedicated ground cable from the ER post to the grounding box, rather than ground the 0V of the ER power rail inside my PSU.

[ASRMichael]

Thanks guys. I’ll stay away from negative speaker terminal. 
 

I appreciate terminology is key. 

[ASRMichael]

You are all misunderstanding what I am saying. I discussed my setup with Sean Jacobs today. He advised everything I have done is all above board and safe, apart from connecting anything to speaker negative post. 
 

I’m going to create a visual map rather than trying to explain. Bare with me. 

[ASRMichael]

@barrows

 

For UK residents only. Always speak to electrician first.

 

He you go, I;ve not listed all my devices but you should get the idea from the example I have used with EtherRegen ground screw, and also Sean Jacobs LPS casework. (The rest of my devices replicate casework of Sean Jacobs). 

 

Let's not get into opinions about draining RF/EMI noise. Let agree, so people agree and some don't. 

 

 

[ASRMichael]

Also see my post on the 26th August on this Thread. I already showed a visual of my electrics

 

 

[ASRMichael]

2 hours ago, Speedskater said:

Note to other readers, @ASRMichael has dangerous misunderstandings about how electricity works.

* * * * * * * * *

a] do not remove or modify any Protective Earth/Safety Ground connections from your components.

b] do not replace any Protective Earth/Safety Ground conductor withe a wire that is not part of the circuit's AC mains cable.

c] do not run a wire from your components to an external Planet Earth grounding system.

d] do not add an external Planet Earth grounding system that is not part of the existing system.

I can see why you wrote this, however different guidelines for US I presume. You are allowed in the UK to have a TT system. Presume not in the US?

 

c] do not run a wire from your components to an external Planet Earth grounding system.

d] do not add an external Planet Earth grounding system that is not part of the existing system.

 

I agree with a&b, but for the record I didn't say that, but probably explained things wrong.

 

a] do not remove or modify any Protective Earth/Safety Ground connections from your components.

b] do not replace any Protective Earth/Safety Ground conductor withe a wire that is not part of the circuit's AC mains cable.

 

[ASRMichael]

The electrician just send me this. Hopefully this clears things up.