Master Clock for your EtherREGEN

[GMG]

Anyone tried or has an opinion on the low priced Finisar modules offered at Aliexpress and marked as manufactured for <XXX> 
XXX = Macroni, Ericsson, RedBack, and more

 

Are those original modules that are manufactured for network providers? Some are priced well below $40 (some used also at $10)

 

examples:

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32854739380.html?spm=a2g0o.productlist.0.0.c7724cc2Lzx9i7&algo_pvid=d5269e93-5aaf-4deb-a2f1-33232e82592d&algo_expid=d5269e93-5aaf-4deb-a2f1-33232e82592d-8&btsid=0b0a0ae216025962495106651ea8fc&ws_ab_test=searchweb0_0,searchweb201602_,searchweb201603_

 

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32854767247.html?spm=a2g0o.productlist.0.0.c7724cc2Lzx9i7&algo_pvid=d5269e93-5aaf-4deb-a2f1-33232e82592d&algo_expid=d5269e93-5aaf-4deb-a2f1-33232e82592d-16&btsid=0b0a0ae216025962495106651ea8fc&ws_ab_test=searchweb0_0,searchweb201602_,searchweb201603_

[GMG]

28 minutes ago, JohnSwenson said:

There are two possible meanings of that "Manufactured for", one is as you mentioned that Finisar made them and manufacturer listed sold them as their own. But the more likely possibility is that they contain that particular manufacturer's code. The SFP modules contain a code for a specific manufacturer, the equipment (switches etc) from many manufacturers will only work if you insert a module with THEIR code embedded in the module. So Manufactured for means they contain that company's code. None of this matters for the ER since it doesn't look at that code at all.

 

John S.

 

So as long as I plan to use the ER on one end and a simple media converter on the other end (or eventually the Sonore OP) this sound like a bargain for the current recommended Finisar sfp module in one of the other forum threads regarding network connections 

just realized I posted my question on the wrong thread 🤦🏻‍♂️

[GMG]

I'm learning a lot about cables from this thread,

I am wondering why none of the known audiophile cable brands have made their way into the discussion?

Are the audio 75Ohm BNC SPDIF cables not suitable for this application?

 

[GMG]

What about vibration damping?

Has anyone tried applying a weight right on top of the clock's silvery cover (inside the housing)?

 

perhaps a nice Tungsten cube would make a difference as it has natural damping characteristics:

 

https://www.ebay.com/itm/1-Tungsten-Cube/171867954594?_trkparms=ispr%3D1&hash=item280420dda2:g:GloAAOSw14xWQSY6&amdata=enc%3AAQAFAAACYBaobrjLl8XobRIiIML1V4Imu%2Fn%2BzU5L90Z278x5ickkSG%2BOFgrj2Yvbvmrj2TAdMwdGWyUgGDA65H5KTwojTIfnAOROymGfiVg3sbR2ocg%2FUc7sAbe%2BmcKcURSIeHZYHCKTRR8hjuiSmN7hg3V1fifsjZahCaZQ53i2%2BGT7B%2BImx3k1tdL2rW4oTwJbtX4MoDIecs70vJDGlx2GpUDD%2BUKMS%2FnZUv2lLCqt117O2txzGPmZcdhTPoXHvlPKc8W%2FlKZNma%2FwwuCRnYhqD75xR6TE%2FAqXgBSKv6A26HzKdHOyNkalNdlSXGNeFajwOghkn3igkQCVsyqk5co57BomVGJf7eB%2BHUasHX58TOEXDci27sQg0jUqQRjCqUyHrDDQzZD7bbCNpLJFYr%2FZVuI7KL4c3iXG98%2FWvSw9CvErinN8C2%2FuhCYoNt79Z%2BBE2P%2Fz3SSIeKP0eZg0Wcb68cb%2B2AQeeUci6yqIJkuCPDqj%2F9YQIoPplNH1U%2BScOfpViLPkEZt4GvzKjEzt4bvunXxxGH4zLr09MfaH0%2F3ABWum61Nl4OMxMFAXyRCJqx%2Fn%2F%2FNrJD2jYu4zGvf0LvWdz%2BhUKNhoba7BwNvi5Ba2UZMrhtAjiSDe2lQu6l83SjfPg8n56gCnIVeZEoXaPr40J1TuKcMC4%2FgDuzkDrH6eJ1pSyZ9%2BMkss9p8pv6KOnOkJt3UKQdHiLF52qc76OigWYNacw5P6C35xOFH9p1uShlT8Ofg%2Flr6P6jqLEgLeEDE%2BtH901o43RyndNLcO3oqbW%2FzLjlD1EyW1lmXm78ElU5vrVb9r|cksum%3A17186795459468f4806e91644a78ac4104fa543ff1a8|ampid%3APL_CLK|clp%3A2334524

[GMG]

51 minutes ago, RickyV said:

 

Are you powering the Etherregen with 12v? If so maybe you could try to power the clock with the js2 and ER with the lps1.2. I don’t know but maybe needs a more powerful power supply.
 

 

Well according to superdad it should be fine

 

[GMG]

Doesn't it come with a power supply for starters?

[GMG]

Well, I really like Teddy Pardo power supplies with my equipment. 
https://www.teddypardo.com

[GMG]

7 hours ago, Superdad said:

I (and others) power the BG7TBL clock with an UltraCap LPS-1.2.  Works quite nicely. 

 

Teddy's units are very nice and he is a good guy!  Please remember that this thread is in the UpTone sponsored forum area. 

As long as we agree that both Teddy's units and UpTone units are great :-)

 

For the sake of discussion -  in attempt to reduce boxes and clutter, and since Teddy is my neighbor (😃) I am considering asking for a combo box: power supply + Clock + Etherregen. All in one box, powered from the same PS and direct PCB connections.
 

What do you think? would that be nice? would it potentially yield better or worse sound quality compared to having 3-4 boxes for this setup?

 

(if you where my neighbor I would ask if you could do it with the JS2 😎)

[GMG]

1 hour ago, R1200CL said:

By sharing PS, you will also possibly have leakage currents. If you’re aiming for the best, you may consider dual LPS-1.2. 

 

 

Since leakage is due of the power supply I don't see how using 2 identical power supplies will prevent the leakage to each of the powered components Vs. using 1 power supply of the same nature but with double the power.

Maybe I'm missing some understanding here, but my logic is that if you use a quality PS with low leakage then you will not suffer from leakage, regardless of the number of power supplies you use.

[GMG]

Thanks John and Alex.

But as you mention the best practice here is to maintain good grounding practice and usage of quality power supplies (hope I got it right and am not over simplifying),

so for the case at hand - if I use a single high quality grounded power supply to power both clock and ER and have both clock and ER grounded to the same ground as the power supply, aren’t leakage and loops dangers reduced to minimum? 
Obviously loops and leakage can now come from the rest of my system components, but as long as I keep the same practice of good power supplies and common grounds I think I should be ok.
If I’m still not getting it and you still think that 2 separate supplies for the ER and clock are the better practice just write back and say - “trust us you are better off with 2 🙂”

I know you guys are busy creating great stuff for us all 🙂 

[GMG]

Ok. 
I think I understand now. 
2 power supplies. 
 

I think someone on this thread mentioned he was using a grounding box, which as far as I know usually connects signal ground of the components to a common ground (forgetting for a second the secret sauce in the box itself),

so would connecting the ER ground and the clock (by the spare bnc) to such a common ground also defeat the ER isolation?

 

[GMG]

Wow!

You are quick

Wonder what 2 cubes could do 😉

 

waiting to hear your update on this

By the way, I believe epoxy would do just fine, but you could also apply thermal paste or double sided thermal stickers. These are commonly used to attach heat sinks to electronic components 

 

 

thanks!

[GMG]

I have no experience with thermal paste/glue so can’t say anything about its mechanical coupling in regards to resonance, where epoxy is definitely good,

But, epoxy has poor thermal conductivity. So heat will not travel efficiently through the epoxy to the Tubgsten cube. 
I don’t think it is an issue here since the you probably used a very thin layer of epoxy, plus the cube is very small so even if it does create a thermal deficiency it will be small and the oxco likes it warm anyway 🙂. 
I will definitely add one to mine

[GMG]

That’s just great to hear @MartinT

Thanks for the update. 
 

Did you get the 20mm cube due to clearance of the box cover or would the pricier 25mm also fit?

[GMG]

The Cybershafts and Afterdark clocks are sine wave (as far as I could gather from the translation)

I thought the Etherregen prefers square wave

[GMG]

One would seriously doubt the Chinese clock would even be close to these numbers and then the other would doubt that the numbers matter...

 

The Cybershaft platinum is -125db/Hz at 10Hz but it is a sine wave output. 
The after dark is also sine wave and the phase noise is not clear for an equivalent model. 
 

so is sine wave ok for ER? 
what is the compromise vs square?

[GMG]

Which midrange ?

there are so many 🙂

 

Grade

PRINCE

QUEEN

KING

EMPEROR SIGNATURE

EMPEROR CROWN

EMPEROR DOUBLE CROWN

EMPEROR TRIPLE CROWN

EMPEROR GIESEMANN

EMPEROR GIESEMANN EVA

 

 

[GMG]

Thanks Adrian

few more questions:

1. Is the crown 50ohm or 75ohm?

2. Pictures show 2 sockets on front. Does the clock have 2 outputs?

3. Back shows 1 iec and 2dc inputs. Can you explain the usage?

 

many thanks

 

 

[GMG]

Wouldn’t a native 75ohm be better?

An adapter is an additional connection with potential lose if performance 

[GMG]

Hello Tungsten lovers 🙂

 

Since suggesting the tungsten cube was such a success it gave me another idea

Glad to share another tungsten DIY

This time went for isolation feet filled with Tungsten powder. 
pretty simple actually

got some pipe connectors (I chose 6.5cm outer diameter with 0.5mm walls), cut to desired height, spray paint black, glue sorbothane circle on bottom, fill with tungsten powder, glue top sorbothane circle. 
 

The ones I made (total height 4cm) came out 620 grams each!

 

 

[GMG]

5 hours ago, MartinT said:

Nice idea!

 

Better make sure that glue stays sealed, though, or else you'll have tungsten powder everywhere.

Yeah, I used superglue 

[GMG]

Since Mutec is now on the table, I would be grateful if someone could clarify some points and give some opinion from 1st hand experience

 

First, did I correctly understand the function of MC3?

1. Re-clock digital signal with native internal clock
2. Can accept external 10Mhz clock for further enhancement of re-clocking
3. Can distribute the connected 10Mhz clock to additional devices
4. Can convert various digital inputs connections (USB to Coax, Coax to AES, etc.)
5. Can also provide 44.1KHz, and 48KHz based clock signals.

 

Second is usage: based on Etherregen-->network player-->DAC

1. Which will provide bigger improvement: 
   1. High quality 10Mhz clock to ER (Cybershaft/Afterdark, Or:
   2. Mutec to re-clock before the DAC
2. If adding both Mutec and high quality 10M clock to chain, Etherregen-->network player-->Mutec+Clock-->DAC, will connecting the clock to Mutec and then from the Mutec back to Ethereregen defeat the Moat of side B?

 

Many Thanks

[GMG]

Thanks John 

I was referring to the MC3+usb

my DAC is the Chord Qutest

it has 2 S/Pdif inputs that can be used in tandem (for use with Chord’s upscaler), 

 

[GMG]

3 hours ago, AfterDark. said:

 

First, did I correctly understand the function of MC3?

1. Re-clock digital signal with native internal clock? Yes
2. Can accept external 10Mhz clock for further enhancement of re-clocking? Yes it can accept 10M Master Clock
3. Can distribute the connected 10Mhz clock to additional devices? However, it do not have 10M Master Clock output for additional devices.
4. Can convert various digital inputs connections (USB to Coax, Coax to AES, etc.)? Yes, it have AES, Coaxial, Optical output, so they can output at the same time. it is pro machine, it works perfectly. 
5. Can also provide 44.1KHz, and 48KHz based clock signals? Yes, if you have a very good CD transport/DAT machine, this can all benefit with the world clock from Mutec, which was generated by 10M Master Clock. 

Second is usage: based on Etherregen-->network player-->DAC

1. Which will provide bigger improvement: 
   1. High quality 10Mhz clock to ER (Cybershaft/Afterdark, Or:
   2. Mutec to re-clock before the DAC

 

The Mutec MC3-USB is different machine compared with switch, it can removes all the digital feelings, which make music more organic, more laid back. The mid-range is lush & airy, bass is more authority and controlled. 

 

UpTone EtherREGEN is an excellent to bring the dynamic and details from the network, streaming like Roon, Qobuz, Tidal,  Spotify can all benefit with it. 

 

The Master Clock just bring all the factors and improvement to another levels, depends on the quality of OCXO Master Clock, of course we agreed with John, the building and material used in the clock cable and BNC connectors are all matters to ensure the optimisation for 10M signal to work perfectly too. 

 

We have perform testing on different brand of BNC clock cables, they have their own sounding, the BNC plug is very important. We prefer to use the HUBER + SUHNER, this is the most natural sounding which frequency range is exceeding the requirement for 10M. 

 

1. If adding both Mutec and high quality 10M clock to chain, Etherregen-->network player-->Mutec+Clock-->DAC, will connecting the clock to Mutec and then from the Mutec back to Ethereregen defeat the Moat of side B?

 

We can demonstrate this setting with YouTube, if anyone is interested. 

Thanks a lot for the detailed answer

just to to make sure I understood, the Mutec can only output word clock but can’t output a master clock. It can’t distribute the input of a master 10MHz, it can only use the 10MHz to improve the distribution of the word clock?

 

so if I have a single output from a 10MHz master clock I can use it to feed both ER and Mutec. Is that right? (I thought maybe the clock could go into Mutec and then out of the Mutec to the ER)

[GMG]

4 minutes ago, AfterDark. said:

 

Yes, there is a transformer type 10M distributor adaptor made by Cybershaft. This adaptor can make make 2 outputs of 10M signal. So that you can use them on EtherREGEN and Mutec MC3-USB with the same 10M Clock. 

 

 

 

Thanks. 
interesting. 
but I would assume such a splitter might degrade some of the performance? Maybe increase a bit the phase distortion?

 

or is this similar to what would be implement internally in a clock with multiple outputs ?