HQPlayer4 EC modulator tips and techniques

[k6davis]

Core i7-9700K. It seems to like EC modulators. 😀

 

It will easily upsample PCM 24-192 => EC DSD256 x 48 with poly-sync-ext2. With any OS. Without a GPU. Without high CPU utilization. No overclocking or special settings or special cooling required. 

[k6davis]

Just now, ted_b said:

What mobo?

 

I'm using the ASRock Z390 Phantom Gaming ITX (review), because it's the most highly regarded ITX board. 

[k6davis]

24 minutes ago, kelvinwsy said:

Eventually the 6700k (3 years coming on) will be obsolete. So biting the bullet with a 9900k and 2080 Super may be the way to get silent HQPlayer 4.0 server up and running without incessant fan noise.

 

I don't see the point in the 9900k for HQP. The 9700K will run every modulator with ease, costs less and runs cooler.

[k6davis]

1 hour ago, kelvinwsy said:

https://cpu.userbenchmark.com/Compare/Intel-Core-i9-9900K-vs-Intel-Core-i7-9700K/4028vs4030

I find from the above they run at the same TDP but the 9900k is 32-38% faster on Multicore Integer and Floating Point Computation speed. And it is only abouit 130USD higher in price. Might as well go to the 8 core 16 thread 9900k

 

When it comes to HQP, there's nothing the 9900K can do that the 9700k can't. When it's time to upgrade for EC DSD512, they'll both be paperweights.

[k6davis]

1 minute ago, Em2016 said:

Isn't the "base" frequency of the 'K' variants higher?

 

In the case of i7-9700 vs 9700K its 3.00 vs 3.60 GHz base ?

 

This higher base frequency doesn't make a difference?

 

Ahh... That I did not know. I'd go for the i7-9700K, which I did. And it's working great. 

[k6davis]

Sounds right. IIRC, some people had accomplished it with older processors (all 'K'), but it took overclocking and or water cooling.

[k6davis]

45 minutes ago, Em2016 said:

Fanless i9-9900K , built for industrial applications. Should be fine for HQPlayer...

 

https://fit-iot.com/web/

 

That's nice. It would be more than "fine". 😀 Looks like an excellent machine and costs less than I thought it would.

 

I approach this from the opposite angle though. I got the CPU and a great mobo for about $400 (I got some good discounts) and swapped them out in the machine I already had. But my machine is not fanless like that one. I try to spend modestly on computer parts because of obsolescence. I just bought this one, but I'm already hoping for the next one that'll do EC DSD512! 

 

If you go that route, I expect that it'll work very well. 

[k6davis]

3 hours ago, StreamFidelity said:

 

@k6davis wrote that Intel Core i7-9700K @ 3.60GHz can handle all EC modulators with DSD 256 without any overclocking.

So I tried the same thing with my Intel Core i9-9900K @ 3.60GHz. Unfortunately without success. In my system, 4GHz overclocking is required for fluent listening. I mean, Miska also said that 4GHz is the minimum.

 

I'm definitely not running the chip at 3.6Ghz. When I say "with no overclocking", I mean I'm running the chip stock, without making any modifications in the BIOS. It's designed to run using Intel's "Turbo Boost", which automatically and safely increases the speed of the i7-9700K to up to 4.9Ghz as needed. 

 

The i7-9700K is very comfortable running PCM 24-192 => EC DSD256 x 48 with poly-sync-ext2, without a GPU, with either Windows or Linux, all day and all night. I've had two of them recently - I returned a pre-built machine I bought for testing and I built my own. This was true for both i7-9700K chips.

 

[k6davis]

5 minutes ago, StreamFidelity said:

Thank you for the clarification. I already started to doubt myself. 😂

 

So you run your PC with fan?

 

Yes, with a fan. Nothing special, but it's silent and effective.

 

I've never tried fanless and since I hope to get to EC DSD512 someday, I don't know when I ever will 😂 

 

Does it really improve the sound?

[k6davis]

One thing I can say for sure. These EC modulators are incredible. Every aspect of the sound is improved. The differences are significant. It's the kind of improvement that makes you want to play old favorites so you can experience them in a new way.

[k6davis]

42 minutes ago, AnotherSpin said:

It could depend on system/components. My set would be similar in certain level (macmini with HQP -> Netgear GS105 -> NUC NAA) When Netgear was powered by generic PSU I heard difference between router connected and disconnected mode. Now, when it powered with LPSU the difference, if any, is so small I do not bother with router connection anymore. Plan to get LPS for router, however...)

 

I'm not quite understanding the network topology here. From what I read, there are 4 components: a router, a switch, the HQP server and a NUC NAA. Exactly how are they connected? And what benefit does the switch provide?

[k6davis]

Moved to appropriate thread.

[k6davis]

16 minutes ago, AnotherSpin said:

router -> macmini -> netgear -> NUC. Netgear works as additional filter between macmini and NUC NAA. What is you topology in comparison?

 

router -> HQP Server

router -> NUC NAA

 

I didn't know you could connect the HQP Server directly to the NAA. That would require 2 Ethernet ports on the server though, right? In from the router and out to the Netgear/NUC NAA? 

 

Is the Netgear switch required or is it an enhancement? 

[k6davis]

1 hour ago, shadowlight said:

Has anyone gotten asdm7ec working under embedded.  I have no problems getting asdm7 and xtr-lp-2s up to 512, but even 256 is stuttering for me.

 

I got PCM 24-192 -> EC DSD256 x 48 with poly-sinc-ext2 running comfortably with embedded on Ubuntu Server 18.04 with a i7-9700K. A GPU is optional for the heavier filters. 

 

An i7-9700K, with a fan, has 8 cores that automatically "Turbo Boost" to up to 4.9GHz. My chip stays in the neighborhood of 4.7GHz even though the base clock is 3.6GHz, with low temps and low utilization. 

 

1 hour ago, shadowlight said:

The result of top has cpu usage value around 1000 when using EC modulator and around 400 when using ASDM7.  I think I still have plenty of CPU cycles available, since 100% load across all CPU would be 2400 so I am currently under 50%.

 

I understand what you mean about the chip seeming to have plenty of headroom left when the music starts to stutter. I upgraded (from the HQP perspective) from a Ryzen 2700x to the i7-9700K. With both chips, the CPU utilization remains low even when they are pushed until the music stutters - EC DSD256 for the AMD and EC DSD512 for the Intel. 

[k6davis]

13 minutes ago, tboooe said:

Even after listening for only a few songs I have to say the hype surrounding these new EC modulators is justified! 

 

Yes indeed! And that's the impression you had listening to EC DSD128! I was in the same boat before I recently upgraded my hardware.

 

13 minutes ago, tboooe said:

Needless to say I am going to have to accelerate my plans to upgrade my audio pc to something more powerful.  I am thinking an i7-9700K + RTX2080 should do that trick.

 

I had that exact combo in my test EC server. It worked extremely well. The i7-9700k eats EC DSD256 for breakfast and since I don't do convolution, the RTX2080 turned out to be much more GPU than I really needed. I downgraded all the way to a GTX1650 for 1/4 the price and the only thing I lost was poly-sinc-xtr, which is a trade-off I was willing to make.

 

I expect the i7-9700K + RTX2080 will do everything you ask of it.

[k6davis]

11 minutes ago, tboooe said:

Thank you for letting me know the i7-9700k will do the job.  I am now re-thinking the RTX2080 though.  I am only doing 2 channel convolution so I am wondering if I can get away with a less powerful GPU.  I dont have any experience with GPUs so any input would be greatly appreciated.

 

I'm brand new to GPU's too, having only had experience with those two I mentioned and just recently.

 

If you've never used Cuda, it couldn't be easier. Put the card in the slot, install the video driver (from the Nvidia website, not the disc) and check the Cuda box in HQP. You'll be able to see the GPU utilization in Windows Task Manager and/or the Nvida settings app. Interestingly, with Cuda on, I need to turn "Multicore" off or else CPU utilization goes way up. Others have said the same. No point in trying to understand it, IMO. There will (almost certainly) be a combination of the two checkboxes that works for you. 

 

It's easy to try a GPU, leave your computer open and swap it out for a different one if you like. I don't see the point in paying for more than you're going to use. In my case, poly-sinc-xtr was going to cost me about $500. I passed. 😂

 

One more tip: I was able to tell my BIOS that I wanted to use both the onboard video and the video card, with the onboard video being primary. In theory at least, that may give your Cuda processing a little boost.

[k6davis]

34 minutes ago, k6davis said:

The i7-9700k eats EC DSD256 for breakfast...

 

... with a fan or active cooling. The automatic Turbo Boost clock speed may be limited with passive cooling.

[k6davis]

1 minute ago, asdf1000 said:

Do you know the process for using CUDA with HQP on Ubuntu?

 

It's exactly the same as I described above with HQP Desktop on Ubuntu. If you're talking about HQP Embedded on Ubuntu Server, it's a bit more complicated.

[k6davis]

8 minutes ago, asdf1000 said:

Apologies - yes I meant Embedded on Ubuntu.

 

There's no check box for Cuda in the embedded web interface. There's also no "Multicore" check box there either. Both settings can be manually edited in the hqplayerd.config file, though. There's details about what the options are in the documentation that comes with the software. 

 

The one thing to be sure to do is to sudo systemctl restart hqplayerd each time (there shouldn't be a lot of times) you change the settings "under the hood" this way. Otherwise, your manual changes will be overridden by the web interface. 

 

It's a few extra steps, but it winds up giving you the same options as Desktop and it works fine.

[k6davis]

8 minutes ago, JTS said:

Back to the sound of all of this.

 

HQP ADSM7EC/EXT2 DSD265>RME ADi-2fs>Eddie Current ZDTJ. Effing eff, it's...great!

 

Get it going on, it's glorious.

 

I agree about EC! I really like DSD5EC too. Which is "better" depends on personal taste and too many other things to count, but I encourage people to give it a listen. No extra charge! 😀

[k6davis]

29 minutes ago, asdf1000 said:

These are the steps I'm asking about... in the latest manual i don't see these steps.

 

See the readme file in /usr/share/doc/hqplayerd/readme.txt.gz/readme.txt

 

The config file to edit is /etc/hqplayer/hqplayerd.xml

 

These are the values in the config file to change:

 

Cuda:

 

Quote

Attribute: cuda
Offload part of the processing to GPU using Nvidia CUDA.
Values:
    0 : Disabled
    1 : Enabled
    convolution : Convolution engine only

 

Multicore:

 

Quote

Attribute: multicore
Enables multicore processing splitting work to higher number of processing
units. Also used with GPU offload.
Values:
    auto : Automatic configuration
    0    : Disabled
    1    : Enabled

 

Change values in the config file.

Save the changes.

Run sudo systemctl restart hqplayerd to restart the server with the changes you just made - or else the web interface will overwrite them.

 

All of this mimics clicking the buttons in HQP Desktop, but does it behind the scenes.

[k6davis]

2 minutes ago, asdf1000 said:

Thanks!

 

nano "/etc/hqplayer/hqplayerd.xml" works for me.

 

but "nano /usr/share/doc/hqplayerd/readme.txt.gz/readme.txt"  doesn't work for me.

 

You're welcome.

 

That's because the "gz" is a compressed file, like a "zip" or a "rar". I included the only pieces of info from it you need for Cuda & Multicore above.

[k6davis]

2 minutes ago, asdf1000 said:

 

Yes I edited the above to say ran "gzip -d readme.txt.gz"

 

And then you were able to read it?

[k6davis]

5 minutes ago, asdf1000 said:

 

Looks quite simple, so thanks again.

 

Now the steps before this are just:

 

1. Install CUDA Toolkit 10.1 Update 1  from here:

https://developer.nvidia.com/cuda-downloads?target_os=Linux&target_arch=x86_64&target_distro=Ubuntu&target_version=1804&target_type=debnetwork

 

and

 

2. Install latest driver from here:

https://www.geforce.com/drivers/results/149138

 

Is that all?

 

For #2 above, I see that's a ".run" file. What command is needed for that, from terminal commands?

 

Thanks again

 

 

You don't have to install the Cuda toolkit. That's for developing Cuda apps. I thought it was necessary too, but it isn't.

 

You just have install the video card driver. Being a Linux noob myself, I looked up how to do that. There are a few commands, one figures out what the latest driver is & downloads it (something about "ppa"). The next actually installs it. I don't remember the specifics, but they are easy to find.

[k6davis]

12 minutes ago, asdf1000 said:

If installing Ubuntu Server , how to see GPU usage via command line, to check that the GPU is actuall being used by HQP? And to see how much GPU is active.

 

I've always used top command but for CPU.

 

Is there a simple and recommended command?

 

This will do it.

 

Like I said, I'm a Linux noob, but I typed in the commands from here verbatim and it worked perfectly. 

 

The only thing they didn't explicitly state was that you should put "sudo" in front of the last command.

make install # You may need sufficient permission for that (root)

... will likely need to be...

sudo make install # You may need sufficient permission for that (root)

.. which you wouldn't know if you don't know anything about Linux, but it appears that you do @asdf1000.

 

It's a nice GPU monitoring app.