Hqplayer: best NAA with best sound quality

[Miska]

You can maybe get DSD to Parasound from NAA OS by using DoP as SDM Pack method. Although it will likely limit your rate options.

 

[Miska]

6 hours ago, ambre said:

1) Is it correct that HQ-player downsizes PCM 384  / 32 bits to 16 bits during PCM playback?

Please see attached picture? Upsampel Redbook by means of PGGM. 

 

No, unless you set DAC Bits to 16 or less in HQPlayer setttings.

 

6 hours ago, ambre said:

2) Besides that I am not able to select any DSD playback by means above hard ware configuration  with DoP or native . Also Direct SDM isn't possible via the USB connection. It immediately turns back to PCM

 

Any other application like Roon active and having the same audio device configured as output device?

 

[Miska]

16 minutes ago, ambre said:

A) no default setting.Also tried 32 bits but no result.

B) will check  Core setting again  …,but don’t use Roon or other playback software from Hq 4 player Mac!

 

Sounds like the driver is doing something funny. What does macOS Audio/MIDI Settings say? Please also check that the DAC is not selected as a default audio device for macOS.

 

[Miska]

23 hours ago, mrkoven said:

Is there any NAA capable of PCM 1.536 ?

 

I've used the UP Gateway that is on my recommended hardware list.

 

[Miska]

On 5/11/2021 at 6:33 PM, ambre said:

Hallo Jussy,

 

The main Mac mini and NAA Mac mini do play PCM and SDM when direct connected to Auralic Vega G2.1. no problems. The only observation that PCM 352 32 bits is played as 24 bits in direct usb connection.

 

When I use the NAA setup in both ways. I have tried to also Main Main Mac mini in NAA mode too.

Bit I am only able to play PCM with 16 bits and with restricted filter settings.With other words not all filters and dither options gave sound. And I saw a new message Limited/ Apod/ 0/1 etc.

 

Ps. I have done a clean install with Big Sur in Mac mini I7 Intel 6 Core. To assure that my  initial settings were correct.

 

Attached pictures shows NAA running Mojave and playing SDM and PCM as requested but only 24 bits.

 

I suspect that present NAA software is not functioning properly anymore?

 

Always same messages like 

/Applications/networkaudiod] (437): CoreAudio output device bits: 24

[/Applications/networkaudiod] (437): CoreAudio output engine initialized

[/Applications/networkaudiod] (437): start 384000/16/2 [pcm]

[/Applications/networkaudiod] (437): CoreAudio output set channels: 2 (2)

[/Applications/networkaudiod] (437): CoreAudio output set sampling rate: 384000

 

and 

[/Applications/networkaudiod] (468): create coreaudio engine

[/Applications/networkaudiod] (468): Network interfaces:

[/Applications/networkaudiod] (468): if[en0] ipv4=10.0.1.49 ipv6=fe80::cbf:341a:98f5:35e8%en0 idx=5

[/Applications/networkaudiod] (468): if[en1] ipv4=10.0.1.50 ipv6=fe80::185f:de11:fe25:c176%en1 idx=6

[/Applications/networkaudiod] (468): if[lo0] ipv4=127.0.0.1 ipv6=::1 idx=1

[/Applications/networkaudiod] (468): listen discovery on en0

[/Applications/networkaudiod] (468): clSocket::SetOption(): setsockopt(..., 41,12, ...): Can't assign requested address

[/Applications/networkaudiod] (468): Socket failure, falling back to IPv4-only!

[/Applications/networkaudiod] (468): listen discovery on 0.0.0.0

 

I am tired of all tests🥵

 

How does your Audio&MIDI Settings look like? You are running networkaudiod through "sudo"?

 

[Miska]

10 minutes ago, ambre said:

1) As normal with direct USB connection. I don't have problems with direct connection only strange that I only can upsample it to 24 bits PCM (with PGGB source at 32 bits).

 

Can you provide screenshot of your Audio&MIDI Settings?

 

10 minutes ago, ambre said:

I tried to change this in HQ-player settings to up 32 bits but... I didn't have any effect.

 

You cannot force HQPlayer use more bits for the output than the output device supports.

 

10 minutes ago, ambre said:

I have ask today in forum Auralic more or less same question and found earlier something interesting about USB behavior of Auralic Vega G1 and in my case Vega G2.1 ( see attached a copy of mu questions). Mr. Xuanqian Wang owner Auralic.

 

" VEGA G1 and G2 works as a digital recorder, it is fundamentally different from other DAC.

If the USB host switch sampling rate too fast then it may cause problem to our device. Normal procedure of USB palyback is

1, USB host send command to USB DAC, we call this step open device

2, USB host set sampling rate command to USB DAC

3, USB host music send data to USB DAC

There must be a friction of delay between step 2 and 3, so the USB DAC can react, otherwise there will be a problem. In our ARIES streamer, we have built-in delay about 200ms and it is about enough for VEGA G1/G2.

 

This is something that would need OS driver modification specific to the Auralic device.

 

14 minutes ago, ambre said:

2) Not  SUDO I access my Mac mini headless via MacOs and start manually (by mouse click) the network audio NAA.

 

You need to start through sudo using terminal, not with mouse click...

 

[Miska]

1 hour ago, ambre said:

I always started network audio as program

 

And it starts

 

You need to start it in terminal with "sudo networkaudiod" (depending where you are, you may need to prefix path to the networkaudiod binary).

 

[Miska]

1 hour ago, ambre said:

Sorry I am a layman concerning terminal. Put the networkaudiod in download and programs but still no recognizing resp. starting. Please some help.

 

You need to provide a path to the binary, if you have it under Downloads folder, you it is "~/Downloads/networkaudiod"

 

Alternatively you can place it under /usr/local/bin in which case it may be found by the default search path.

 

1 hour ago, ambre said:

Also confused that I cannot start the program with double mouse click. In las case it starts immediately. What is the benefit starting with sudo?

 

It is not an ordinary application, it is a console/terminal application just like "sudo" and may other standard Unix ocmmand line utilities in macOS. Without "sudo" it doesn't have all the necessary permissions, and since it doesn't have any graphical user interface it cannot ask for permissions through system popup dialogs.

 

[Miska]

3 hours ago, ambre said:

Hi Jussy, 

Sorry to bother you. But I am not succeeding in accessing networkaudiod by means of the instruction you have sent.

I am using Big Sur latest version on my main Mac mini and NAA Mac mini ( proposed) 

 

Last login: Fri May 21 12:06:47 on ttys000

andreasbrekeling@Mac-mini-van-Andreas-I7 ~ % sudo /Downloads/networkaudiod

 

It should be "~/Downloads/networkaudiod"

 

You have "~" missing which refers your your home directory.

 

 

This is why the NAA OS exists. NAA is intended to be running on a custom minimal OS that doesn't have any graphical user interface or anything else than what is absolutely needed to boot up and run the minimal "networkaudiod" service.

 

[Miska]

2 hours ago, ambre said:

Playing PCM in direct connected USB no problem. But only as PCM 24 bits despite the Gargled blaster master file of 352/ 32 bits.

 

There is no relation between source and output bits in HQPlayer. These are two separate and totally independent things.

 

2 hours ago, ambre said:

I contacted Auralic already. It is strange that a dac with 32 bits capabilities  ( *** 352.8KHz and 384KHz and 32bit are supported through streaming, USB and Lighting-Link input only) is playing at 24 bits in HQ-player? Tried to change bit-rate in settings without success?

 

Have you made sure Auralic is not set as default output device for macOS? I usually set the built-in audio as default audio device.

 

 

[Miska]

8 minutes ago, ambre said:

1) What do you mean? file is apparently 32 bit and HQ-player makes 24 ..that was I saying! How can or is this correct yes or no .....cannot be derived from your answer.

 

Yes, HQPlayer outputs what ever DAC supports. It doesn't matter what the source file has. Source file can be 1, 2, 3, 16, 24, 32, 64-bit, what ever. If DAC supports 24-bit, output is 24-bit regardless of the source.

 

10 minutes ago, ambre said:

2) My default audio-output is my Mac mini speakers ! and NAA is default or Vega or now Chord Qutest

 

Can you show how it looks like for the case when you say HQPlayer outputs 24-bit and when HQPlayer outputs 16-bit. From the machine where the DAC is connected. In your above screenshot, there's no DAC connected.

 

[Miska]

14 hours ago, ambre said:

The setting in my Mac mini NAA and my Mac should be presenting 32 bits?

 

 

One problem here is that you have VEGA selected as default audio output. Please make sure it is not selected for default audio output.

 

Here it is shown that it supports 24-bit.

 

[Miska]

networkaudiod for Windows and macOS are provided "as-is", without much maintenance.

 

What I've tested, I can play 8 channels of DSD256 on my macOS NAA to exaSound e28 DAC.

 

I cannot comment about Auralic DACs. I don't have any to test with. My UP-Gateway NAA running NAA OS image has been working flawlessly with T+A HA 200 and Holo Audio Spring DACs.

 

7 hours ago, ambre said:

Concerning my earlier post for NAA Mini PC W8 Pro Intel X5-Z8350 I have let you know that the newer distro versions of the X64 for intel X64 mini-PCs are not working as expected.

 

I'm not supporting Windows 8 with any of my recent software. Only 64-bit Windows 10. Are you booting my NAA OS 4.1.1.2 image on that device? Have you tried latest HQPlayer OS on?

 

7 hours ago, ambre said:

Ps. Tried to download latest distro today but your download speed is very low I to about 1,5 hours for 260mb and will try it again on PC W8 Pro.  Or no advisable?

 

I don't know why, the server where NAA is hosted (signalyst.eu) has 500 Mbps internet connection.

 

[Miska]

6 hours ago, AudioDoctor said:

 

Miska, I have noticed this as well. When I click the button on the page to download the version of desktop I want, it is SLOOOOOOOOOOW. However, if I use wget to download that same version it's super fast.

 

one of these buttons:

 

 

signalyst.com server is on 100 Mbps connection. Depending on the server load it can be faster or slower, but the server is on decent internet connection anyway. I don't know why browser would be slow compared to using wget. Some anti-virus plug into browser and scan during the download instead after the download which may slow things down on a large download. What I've tested, I've got fast downloads from that server.

 

I just tested with Opera browser on Linux and I got 10 megabytes per second download speed, which is as much as much as you can get out of 100 Mbps connection. So the download took couple of seconds.

 

[Miska]

2 hours ago, ambre said:

Fact is that only 411 and 4111 and 4112 on Intel X5-Z8350 not working properly. Both versions do start and generates a loop concerning drivers and constantly searching. These versions don't finish operation and find a usb-port or connection.

 

Works for me on this:

https://up-shop.org/up-gateway-atom-x5-z8350-w-4g-memory-32g-emmc-board-w-vesa-plate.html

Do you have this hardware or something else with x5-Z3850 CPU?

 

Ethernet is connected to regular home network with DHCP available so that the device would get IP? And DAC is connected, powered up and USB input selected?

 

2 hours ago, ambre said:

Ps. Can you steer / control  a My UP-Gateway via a web- interface or a screen control form MacOs?

 

Not possible, and nothing to do anyway. NAA images cannot be configured in any way, it either works or doesn't.

 

[Miska]

I have updated NAA images with latest NAA OS version, now images have version 4.1.2.

 

[Miska]

2 hours ago, Jud said:

This could easily be something quite random, but I’ve changed distros and installed HQPlayer a couple of times in the past week, and the download (two Arch-based distros fetching the download for package installation) did seem slow from here in the Western US. Gigabit through the modem, then a Wi-Fi 6 router and Wi-Fi 6 card in the desktop that reliably does over 400Mbps to the desktop in tests, so that shouldn’t be slowing things down; and downloads of other packages installed at the same time seemed to run very fast.

 

Those other packages probably come from some US based mirror, while my servers are located in Europe. I don't use CDN or mirrors elsewhere. So download speeds to US also depend on speed of your ISP's link to Europe.

 

[Miska]

1 hour ago, AudioDoctor said:

I ran some tests.

 

1) I downloaded the arm version of desktop by clicking the button.

 

2) I tried curl on my mac from the command line, it went a little faster

 

3) I logged into my roon server running ubuntu and used wget and it went the fastest.

 

These two are from different servers, signalyst.com vs signalyst.eu

 

[Miska]

5 hours ago, ambre said:

I cannot find at all? All dated 2020? or 23-02 2021

 

4.1.2 is there already, released in Feb 23.

 

5 hours ago, ambre said:

 

This is the place for NAA OS images, check again, refresh the index in browser.

 

[Miska]

3 hours ago, ambre said:

Only the naa-412-x64.7z' is updated not the Mac_Os ?

 

Yes, no changes in the NAA software, just the OS got updated.

 

[Miska]

5 hours ago, AudioDoctor said:

Very interesting. Does signalyst.eu pull the file from the eu server? I tried it just now, and while faster, still nowhere near as fast as using wget.

 

Both are located in EU, but on different internet connection and server. If browser is slower than wget on the same URL then the problem is either in the browser or computer's network connection.

 

[Miska]

3 hours ago, ambre said:

This naa-412-x64.7z isn't working on  my X5-Z8350 HD. Pas. download took 1,5 hours!

 

Interesting result for my 500 Mbps internet connection...

 

3 hours ago, ambre said:

it hangs after starting please below screenshots of starting NAA. Network cable in.

 

 

 

Here it says that the Realtek ethernet adapter doesn't have cable plugged in ("link is down") and keeps waiting to get IP from DHCP server.

 

[Miska]

8 hours ago, ambre said:

How can older X64 work properly? With same connection/cables switches and network.  

 

I don't know, you can then use that instead? Likely common problem related to Realtek NICs, since apparently they are failing to submit proper driver updates to upstream Linux kernels and thus some of the NIC variants are not working with the kernel drivers.

 

You can try to install for example minimal Ubuntu Server 20.04 LTS or Fedora 33 Minimal (from Server installer) on your hardware and then networkaudiod package there. This way you get wider hardware support. I cannot provide same level of hardware support companies like Canonical and RedHat can who have many people working full time with hardware support and hardware manufacturers to make things work.

 

My OS images are provided as-is, they either work or they don't.

 

8 hours ago, ambre said:

Not a very serious and stimulating approach from your side Jussi. Assuming that I don't have an internet connection or a cable connected!

 

You can see yourself it says "enp1s0: Link is Down".

 

8 hours ago, ambre said:

Please investigate if you yourself may have made a mistake.

 

I cannot investigate hardware/driver issues on hardware I don't have... I've listed hardware I've tested things on.

 

8 hours ago, ambre said:

Have already spent so many hours on  NAA Mac_Os X64  images that apparently work very differently or not.

 

First of all, let's not mix NAA OS images and networkaudiod macOS binaries. Very hard to follow which one you are talking about at different times.

 

You have said yourself that your other DACs work fine on macOS? Just Auralic is broken? And they have stated (as you quoted) that their firmware has some deficiencies that require extra delays outside of USB Audio Class specification to make things work. So we can say that Auralic gear is not supported.

 

[Miska]

There's now also "naa-4121-x64" image as well. It may work better on certain newer pieces of hardware.

 

[Miska]

34 minutes ago, ted_b said:

Is there a situation where putting an NAA daemon on the SAME cpu as your HQPlayer (desktop or embedded) has benefit?  I see that Zaphod (PGGB author) is doing that, and I am stumped as to why he is getting better performance (fewer clicks, etc).  I'm not even sure how HQPlayer sees the NAA in this scenario, since there is no network involved. 

 

Not really, it just makes situation more complex. You get some additional buffers through network packet buffers, but OTOH some extra overhead for going through the protocol stacks for no reason. You can have both on the same machine, since then the machine just talks to itself over network stack. Generally if there is benefit in doing so, such as having effect on clicks or something like that, then there is something wrong with the system/setup in first place, since added overhead shouldn't be making things better.