How much difference does it make?

[StephenJK]

On 6/21/2019 at 12:09 PM, gordec said:

I have learned a lot of great information from the CA/AS community since joining. I went completely network based frontend and started to use better cable and power supplies. After playing with a lot of streamers and linear power supplies, I came to the conclusion that, to my ears, software, power supply, connection interface (network, USB, optical) and cables make up about 10% difference in overall sound quality. Headphone/speaker probably make up 30%-40%, amp 20%-30%, DAC 15%-30%. I have absolutely no problem spending a lot to get the most out of that 10%, but perhaps the best value is spend on the down stream components that could make a bigger difference in the overall sound quality. 

 

Do others feel that their frontend makes significantly more than 10% difference to their overall listening experience. If so, how much. I'm talking about sound quality alone, not the software/user interface. 

 

On 6/21/2019 at 12:09 PM, gordec said:

I have learned a lot of great information from the CA/AS community since joining. I went completely network based frontend and started to use better cable and power supplies. After playing with a lot of streamers and linear power supplies, I came to the conclusion that, to my ears, software, power supply, connection interface (network, USB, optical) and cables make up about 10% difference in overall sound quality. Headphone/speaker probably make up 30%-40%, amp 20%-30%, DAC 15%-30%. I have absolutely no problem spending a lot to get the most out of that 10%, but perhaps the best value is spend on the down stream components that could make a bigger difference in the overall sound quality. 

 

Do others feel that their frontend makes significantly more than 10% difference to their overall listening experience. If so, how much. I'm talking about sound quality alone, not the software/user interface. 

Wait a minute.  Looking at your equipment list, you don’t even own a stereo system.  You have a headphone amplifier and a mid-range pair of headphones.  

 

Nothing wrong with that, but I’m not convinced that your system is able of resolving any subtle nuances that a cable change could make.  

 

Am I missing something?

[StephenJK]

15 hours ago, PeterSt said:

 

The same would be so for the DAC (these days / still). It is about as mechanical, but the relative forces and what is influenced are different (think infinitely more low jitter opposed to the TT's wow).

How does mechanical feedback to a softly sprung turntable relate to an electronic processor?  I was under the impression that jitter was a timing function, and one dealt with by making sure the only clock used was the one specific to the playback device.

 

Turntables don’t experience wow - wow and flutter was a tape thing related to poor tape speed control.  

 

 

[StephenJK]

17 hours ago, sandyk said:

 

Xtal oscillator stability is also affected by vibration, which is why some DACs and media players go to a great deal of trouble to control case resonances etc. If you have a decent media player such as an Oppo, try listening to it both in a typical cabinet, and sitting on a carpeted floor. My Oppo 103 has added 3M 2552 self adhesive anti vibration tape inside the cover and other strategic locations including under the drive mechanism for this reason. It also sounds best in the cabinet when sitting on a piece of 10mm thick car sound reducing material with Butyl.

Yes, Turntables can experience WOW, due to variations in turntable speed and even older slipping drive belts.

I guess I should hang out here more often, I’ve never heard of mechanical vibration affecting solid state chips.  Pressure, sure - vibration?  That’s a new one.  But you’re talking about a transport mechanism, meaning a CD player, not a DAC!

 

Either way, I’m not taking my stereo apart to put the DAC on the floor, and then wonder if there’s anything different other than where it is, but I will take your word for it.

 

Wow on a turntable - yes, I stand corrected, I just haven’t heard that with reference to belt drive turntables in some decades now, belt drive has come a long ways.  But I’m struggling to think of how belt slip could be that bad and not be highly noticeable.  Goodness, you can get an RPM app for your iPhone that will give an accurate speed indication if you don’t trust your ears.

 

[StephenJK]

31 minutes ago, gordec said:

 

I'm saying headphone or speaker. I'm not sure someone would call Susvara a midrange headphone.  Are you thinking of Sundara?

I should have elaborated in greater detail.  My point was that while your assumption of the differences that power supplies or cables could possibly make is your experience with your system.  For any other system with innumerable variables those conditions would not necessarily hold true.  

 

And, my intent was not to insult your headphones.  Yes, I have a pair of older Grado RS1e’s that I use rarely.  I think I prefer speakers as a sound source, but do have the room for a decent setup.

 

[StephenJK]

26 minutes ago, PeterSt said:

 

But of course it is not new.

Blame the clock (oscillator) in there as the first to be hammered upon. Next will be chips if not overwhelmed by the former in the first place.

 

So footers for your DAC don't matter ? May I ask, what is your DAC ?

Of course you may ask.  I’ve just sold a PS Audio DirectStream Junior as well as a Musical Fidelity Nu-Vista Vinyl phono stage and Nu-Vista 800 integrated for a Devialet Expert Pro 440.

 

i’ve had a lot of analog gear over the years with pointed feet, recently with both Musical Fidelity units, but will admit I’ve never seen them on any DAC I’ve ever owned.

 

My Clearaudio Innovation Compact turntable is the only piece of gear with them now. Oh, and the speakers, but I took those off while tweaking their position.

[StephenJK]

7 minutes ago, firedog said:

So you think the Devialet sounds better than what you just sold? Pretty good endorsement of the Devialet.

Yes, but it’s more than that. Firstly, I was concerned about Class D amps as I have no experience with them. The goal initially was to find a smaller and more capable integrated amplifier than that super sized Nu-Vista 800.  

 

Then I discovered that the Devialet digitizes all inputs and with a DSP is able to act as a phono stage, DAC, preamp and amp with wifi and internet connectivity.  Obviously, it’s still all about the sound.

 

The Devialet overall has a better balance, presence and a much improved and bigger soundstage than the previous system.  Yes, a lot of the soundstage is down to the output stage, but I can hear details from high resolution FLAC files that I haven’t before.

 

I would rate the Devialet DAC section at perhaps slightly better than the DSJ, but with the ability to tailor the output based on a speaker profile with their configurator I can just get that much more out of the whole system.

[StephenJK]

For goodness sake.  Can we stop with this sophomoric nonsense about micro vibrations and putting our DAC in a puddle of freaking water.  Give it a rest.  Stop feeding the troll.

 

You don’t need NASA to tell you that a liquid is a better conductor of sound and vibration than a gas!  Stop with the pseudoscience, and go back to your comics.

 

 

[StephenJK]

I’m doing some scientific testing on the most suitable means of isolation from micro- vibration.

 

This is with the correct medium to “float” my DAC to ensure those bits and bytes don’t get contaminated by any vibration whatsoever.   

 

These are the results so far.

 

Hot Lava:  I really thought one of those space blankets from Army Surplus would do the trick to keep the DAC away from the molten rock, but jeeze louise, what a freakin’ mess that made.

 

Magnetic Levitation:  I very cleverly removed the electrical meter, bored a hole through the back of the housing into the house and installed a 200 amp bypass to a levitation coil I wound around a hardwood form in the living room. In all fairness, I would have to call this an unmitigated and abject failure.  The cats hated it.  The buzzing was so loud you couldn’t hear anything else and the fridge ended up in the loving room. 

 

Cirque de Soleil Solution:  Ropes!  What could be simpler?  Should have thought of that in the first place!  I crawled up into the attic, drilled holes through the drywall into the living room and dropped down four 1/2” wire ropes (stainless of course) clamped to the rafters.  I then suspended a platform from the wire ropes to support the all important DAC.  Did not make one bit of difference.  Wife is upset with the mess in the living room.  She just doesn’t understand.

 

Pool of Mercury:  You know, I think I just might be onto something here.  Get a big tote, fill it with liquid mercury and just float everything in that. Yeah, I know, it’s toxic, but i wasn’t planning on drinking the stuff.  I “took” all they had from the local high schools but that just isn’t very much. I hear they use the stuff in Alaska mining for gold.  Got a trip booked for this weekend to check it out.  

 

Stay tuned.....

 

[StephenJK]

46 minutes ago, christopher3393 said:

 

is that really so bad?

Mmmm.  Cold beer.