Allo Digione Signature

[InfinitelyBaffled]

So here's my take on the DigiOne Signature. I've been running the regular DigiOne with Ropieee for six months and it has been rock solid with Roon, so I figured I'd try out the Signature. With all the discussion on power supplies, I decided to go with 2 Twisted Pear Centaur linear power supplies to power both sides through independent transformers to maintain galvanic separation. Overkill for the clean side power-wise, but keeps things simple. Also installed an EMI filter on the power inlet. Finished it up yesterday, letting it run for a few days to settle in. 

 

 

[InfinitelyBaffled]

1 hour ago, analogmusic said:

Not sure what is going on with Allo. I placed an order on 24th December, and have been promised twice now that my digione signature would ship on Friday.

 

Am getting a bit worried about them missing their deadlines twice. I was told that they had some delays due to customs imports but surely promising me that the shipment would leave and missing the deadline is strange.

 

Assuming you are in the US, have you tried Chicago Electronic Distributors? I bought my DS from them and received it in a few days.

[InfinitelyBaffled]

On 1/2/2019 at 3:49 PM, InfinitelyBaffled said:

So here's my take on the DigiOne Signature. I've been running the regular DigiOne with Ropieee for six months and it has been rock solid with Roon, so I figured I'd try out the Signature. With all the discussion on power supplies, I decided to go with 2 Twisted Pear Centaur linear power supplies to power both sides through independent transformers to maintain galvanic separation. Overkill for the clean side power-wise, but keeps things simple. Also installed an EMI filter on the power inlet. Finished it up yesterday, letting it run for a few days to settle in. 

 

 

 

So I have had this new Signature running steady now for five days and have spent a few hours listening to it. Comparing it to my standard DigiOne setup with the Pi's switched power supply, I have found the Signature to be more resolving and to have a noticeably better soundstage. The Signature paired with my Yggdrasil DAC is a good combo. Higher resolution is very evident on voices and percussion instruments like the vibraphone or bells.

The Centaur power supplies were an easy build, I initially set them both at exactly 5 volts, but I noticed the red light on the pi would go on and off intermittently while booting, signaling a drop below 4.63 volts. I cranked the power supply up to 5.2 volts and it is now solid through the boot process as well as during operation. The 2.5 amps seem to be plenty enough to power the Pi. On the "clean side" I have the same power supply but set at exactly 5 volts. With 15k uF smoothing capacitors on these power supplies, I think I am providing some clean and steady power to both sides of the Signature.

The only thing that presented a challenge on this build were the USB C connectors - I wish Allo would also provide some solder pads on the board to wire power directly - I had to dig up some 90 degree angled adapters to get this setup to fit in the case.

Overall, I am very satisfied with this setup - I think it was worth the expense and effort. I might grab a battery setup and compare that to the Centaur supply on the clean side, but I doubt I will hear any improvement - this thing is dead silent and overpowered as it is (clean side has 2.5 amps available to it) - I had planned to add copper shielding around the DS, but I don't think it needs it.

[InfinitelyBaffled]

10 hours ago, keihin said:

 

I don't know whether this would have helped you, as it sounds like more of a space/packaging issue inside your shared enclosure, but there are alternate power cables available with USB Type-C plugs.  If for no other reason but to eliminate the messy adapter use and overly long cables that were packed with the Weiland, I've ordered a cable from Ghent Audio to take power from my Weiland Audio LPS to the DigiOne Signature board. 

 

In my case, the cable is a Ghent model number DC36 (Aviation GX12/GX16 to USB DC Cable) with these options:

LPS-end Connector: Aviation: GX16-2(1+): pin1(VCC +), pin2(GND)
Allo-end Connector: USB: Type-C
Cable Length: 0.5m

 

It has not yet arrived.  I'll post about it once it's installed.

 

Thanks for sharing that, but you are right - my issue was one of space - I had to fit the AC socket/EMI filter, the Ethernet jack and the Digione across the back of the case and it was a tight fit. I found some decent quality 90 degree USB C adapters and heat-shrink wrapped them to the connectors provided with the DigiOne.  I thought about unsoldering the USB C connectors from the DigiOne board to hard wire it directly, but those pads under the USB C connector look awfully small.

 

Let us know how that cable works out for you....

[InfinitelyBaffled]

For those of you that switched to battery power for the clean side - is there a specific song or album that you have found to really demonstrate the differences when using batteries? I'd like to know..

 

I put together a simple and inexpensive battery pack (4 AA's in series - 5.5v/2500 mAh) and have been going back and forth listening from my battery pack to my Twisted Pear power supply, and I am struggling to hear any improvement in the sound with the batteries. The Twisted Pear power supply has so much power reserve with the giant smoothing capacitor, I just think I am at the peak of performance from a power supply. But I'm not giving up yet - I'd be glad to A/B test some more samples before giving up on batteries if you guys have some good suggestions.

[InfinitelyBaffled]

1 hour ago, RX8R3ROD said:

If you want to experience (at least in my experience 😁) what batteries are really capable of you should try 18650’s )instead of AA’s) into Supercaps followed by a superreg.

 

This IME is a very significant improvement on just 18650’s, which are themselves a significant step up from AA cells.

 

I think you’ll be pleasantly surprised... 😉 and you’ll hear it on everything 👍

 

RX8R3ROD - do you have a schematic for this power supply?

 

With all due respect, I have a hard time believing that differences in power storage could make that big of a difference in sound quality. If you are supplying the clean side with adequate voltage and ample current, with sufficient CLEAN power reserves, I don't see how the sound could be different.

I'd like to study your supercap/superreg solution.  ( I could not find details in the earlier comments in this thread.)

 

***UPDATE*** - I just saw what you posted immediately before this post - I'll check it out.

[InfinitelyBaffled]

48 minutes ago, RX8R3ROD said:

Yes, you need to follow it with a simple voltage regulator, like the one shown here.

 

https://www.instructables.com/id/Basic-5-Volt-Power-Supply/

 

This will sound really good, replacing the capacitors they show with Panasonic OSCONs and WIMA film capacitors for the small ones will make it better still, and only cost you 5 or 6 quid.

 

Adding some Supercaps in place of the big input capacitor (say 12 or 15v, 1 or 2F) will make it sound even better. (£10 to £20)

 

All of this is available from Farnell or RS Components.

 

And replacing the 7805 regulator with something like a New Class D 5v regulator or a Belleson 5v (£40 ish) will make it better still.

 

Some folks recommend the LT3042 or LT3045. I’m not so keen personally, but at £10 or less you might find they’re just the ticket?

 

Hope that helps 😁

 

The Twisted Pear Centaur has a Nichicon 15000uf/50V input capacitor, a LM350T regulator (fixed at 5v with a 1% metal film resistor rather than a trimmer) and a Panasonic 2200uf/25V output cap. A 9v toroidal transformer supplies the AC side and the unit generates 2.5A at exactly 5v. Not really sure how I could improve on this. How could LifePo4 cells and a supercap on the input side supply power any faster? Regs are the same except for variable voltage selection capability. Seems to me that 15000uf of power waiting behind that LM350T would not create any kind of power supply lag. Now maybe replacing the output cap with a supercap of equivalent size......

 

Also, directly supplying 5.5v/2000mAh from batteries in series seems hard to beat as well, regardless of battery topology, as long as more than ample current is there waiting....

 

I have no doubt you hear wonderful things from your setup - I just think I am probably at a point of diminishing returns.  Now I did pick up a set of 4 LifePo4 Double AA's for $10 while I was purchasing the cheap little AA battery holder. I may modify it to run parallel/series to get 6.4v 800mAh and try those in my battery holder. Maybe those LifePo4 AA's will supply current faster than the traditional Alkaline AA's. I would think direct power via batteries in any case would be faster than a regulator setup in between the batteries and the clean power input.

 

At the end of the day, I think many of us are hearing great things with these custom (and cost effective) power supplies! 😊

[InfinitelyBaffled]

1 hour ago, Gustav9 said:

Thanks, I have tried that, but it just doesn't work - flashing green and red lights, left for several hours - nothing installed and Pi not showing on the network

 

You said you are using a new SD card. Can you try with a known good card? Power requirements do not change - clean and dirty side as before. After 15 minutes, can you see the pi's IP address on your router? Can you ping it?

 

I have found Ropieee to be rock solid with a Digione and a Signature. Great software. The first configuration boot does take about 15 minutes though.

[InfinitelyBaffled]

1 hour ago, quanghuy147 said:

Hi, today I did an extensive comparison between USB 3 of Schiit Yggy and Allo Signature. It's not hard to see that Allo Sign is more sparkling, less noise and everything is more separate and layered. Schiit USB 3's mid bass is stronger (which makes voices chestier than in reality) though bass is the same in both Allo Sign and Schiit.

 

However, possibly due to the fact that Allos Sign is more sparkling and less noise, the high-mid is quite sharp, quite ear-piercing and in many songs on my system. Schiit USB 3 though it has more noise, less resolution but not sharp and easier to listen to. 

 

Does Allo Sign sound sharp in your system?

 

Another thing is I use Allo Sign with Volumio, whenever a song ends and it moves to the next songs, Schiit will with produce a 'click' sound and the signal led blinks once. I dont' know why it has to be like this. This does not happen when I use Schiit USB 3. Can anyone help me to avoid this 'click' issue?

 

Thank you.

 

What was the source of the USB signal? And did you feed the Signature's SPDIF into the same Yggdrasil? Was the source material from both coming from the same device running Volumio?  Just trying to understand what you are comparing here.....

[InfinitelyBaffled]

16 hours ago, quanghuy147 said:

 

The source of USB Signal is laptop .

 

Laptop -- usb -- Yggy -- Amplifier -- speakers . This setup has no 'click'

 

Volumio -- Allo Sign -- Yggy -- Amplifier -- speakers . This setup has a 'click'

 

Thank you.

 

 

I am guessing that in your second setup that Volumio is running on the Raspberry Pi?  Looks like you've taken your laptop's USB completely out of that setup and that's probably why it sounds so much better. Laptop USB directly to the Yggy probably has tons of jitter in the signal. The Signature cleans all that up before sending it out SPDIF.

I run Roon on my network over to the Pi/Signature setup (running Riopeee) that runs into my Yggy. I get the clicks when the bitrate changes or when I pause or stop the music stream. Normal operation for the Yggy.

[InfinitelyBaffled]

6 hours ago, clipper said:

Sure.

 

I use the Raspberry Pi version of GentooPlayer.  See GentooPlayer Thread.  It's in Italian so you might need to translate.  Google Chrome is good for that...

 

I run Squeezelite-R2 on it and send music to it from Roon. 

 

Here are the players it supports:

 

 

I run it with Kernel choice 10 (Realtime Kernel RT1 for Pi 3B+), and in RAM (ramdisk) mode.  I think the ramdisk mode makes a big difference.  The scripts make these changes easy.

 

Highly recommended...  Best sound I have gotten from the Digione Signature.

 

If you try it, download the correct version (depending on whether your Pi is a 3B or 3B+).

 

 

 

 

Wow, looks complex. Have you compared Gentoo against Ropieee? I run Roon as well. Looks like a fairly steep learning curve to try Gentoo. Not that I am against it, just not sure it would be worth the effort. Metrum Acoustics is using a modified version of Ropiee for their Ambre, so I figured it should be an optimal player for the Pi/Signature setup.

[InfinitelyBaffled]

1 hour ago, quanghuy147 said:

Thank you clipper! I will try that out, the steps kind of discouraged me

 

@InfinitelyBaffled Do you have to pay to use Roon or Ropieee? Thanks!

Hi quanghuy147:

 

Roon is a music server system from Roonlabs. Its definitely not free, but there is a trial version. Ropieee is free but is not a standalone music player - it is an "endpoint" for Roon.

[InfinitelyBaffled]

1 hour ago, 01svtL said:

Sorry to butt in here, but can a couple of you take pictures of how your power connectors are attached to your Signature Players?  I saw Darko's Youtube review, and the way he was powering his was not how I was told by Allo to hook mine up.  I know he purchased his Signature card separate, whereas I have the Player, but I think they are the same thing at the end of the day so it shouldn't matter?

 

Power locations circled in RED.

 

You should not have to hook power up to ANY other connector on any board, especially the Pi. 

[InfinitelyBaffled]

6 minutes ago, quanghuy147 said:

 

Wow, this looks very professional. Are they power purifier? Where can I buy the boards and the transformer?

 

The two power supplies are Twisted Pear Audio Centaur models with their 9v/9v toroidal transformers. Provides galvanic isolation between the two power inputs as well as the incoming power. And the large inout and output capacitors provide plenty of ripple smoothing "purification." (http://www.twistedpearaudio.com/power/centaur.aspx).  You have to assemble them yourself, but it only takes about twenty minutes if you know how to solder. I used an EMI filter from Amazon on the incoming power. I posted a pic below. The Amazon listing for this one doesn't exist any more, but I am sure you can find another one easily. The case was an eBay purchase.

[InfinitelyBaffled]

8 minutes ago, quanghuy147 said:

 

I see, Roon is about $100/ year. Do you think it's better than Volumio or Foobar?

 

I think Roon is in a whole different class than Volumio or Foobar. It provides so much more than just playing music files. However, I have been playing around with Volumio and it makes a great little file based music server for next to nothing in cost.  Their is so much to Roon, you'll really have to read up on it. It truly makes for a "whole house" music system. I'll never go back to not using Roon - really takes the whole music listening experience up a level.

[InfinitelyBaffled]

5 hours ago, Tintinabulum said:

That looks really neat. Nice 90 degree power connectors there, could I ask where from? Those going to a male/female connector, what sort of wire from PS terminals? Budding DIYer here...And the case? Nice job.

 

Here's the entire parts list for my build. I included the exact descriptions to make it easier to search for it.

 

Item	Source
CanaKit Raspberry Pi 3 B+ (B Plus)	Amazon
Full aluminum power amplifier enclosure WA57 chassis/AMP box 227*225*92mm	Ebay
Allo Signature Board	Chicago Electronic Distributors
Philmore DC Coaxial Plug No. 250 2.5mm(ID) X 5.5mm(OD) (qty 2)	Fry’s Electronics
Centaur power supply kits (2) and (2) 9v 30a Avel Lindberg transformers	Twisted Pair Audio
Noise Suppressor Power EMI Filter Termianl Single-Phase Line-Conditioner JREle AC 115/250V 10A CW2B-10A-T	Amazon
Neutrik NE8FDP etherCON RJ-45 Feedthrough Chassis Connector	Amazon
StarTech.com Cat6 Patch Cable - 6 in - Black Ethernet Cable - Snagless RJ45 Cable - Ethernet Cord - Cat 6 Cable - 6in	Amazon
Poyiccot (2-Pack) 90 Degree USB C Type C Male to Female Adapter, Right & Left Angled 90 Degree USB-C USB 3.1 Type-C Male to Female Extension Adapter for Laptop & Tablet & Mobile Phone   The only other items would be standard hookup wire to go from the output terminals on the power supplies to the input on the Allo supplied power cords with the barrel end and the USB C ends.   The Centaur power supplies are high quality and work perfectly with the Pi. Using the same power supply for the clean side is overkill, but it was a very easy way to supply high quality, galvanically separated power to the clean side. I have tried a simple battery pack, but I did not notice any difference in sound. On the pi side power, I run the Centaur at 5.3 volts. On the clean side, I installed the resistor to set it at exactly 5 volts instead of using the voltage trimmer, just to insure there is no additional noise or fluctuation in the power. They include both options in the kit. This setup has been running Riopeee since I built it and is rock solid, runs cool and sounds terrific.	Amazon

[InfinitelyBaffled]

6 hours ago, 01svtL said:

 

So when you flip the power button, it all gets turned on at the same time right? Aren’t we supposed to power the clean side first?

 

Can you please tell me if that bottom plug is the clean side?  When I plug power to that port, no lights come on in the unit. 

 

Yes, both power supplies are tied to the same power switch, so they both power up at the same time. I've never had a problem with that.  Could it be that Ropieee software is just more forgiving? I don't know, but no problems.

[InfinitelyBaffled]

21 hours ago, 01svtL said:

 

So when you flip the power button, it all gets turned on at the same time right? Aren’t we supposed to power the clean side first?

 

Can you please tell me if that bottom plug is the clean side?  When I plug power to that port, no lights come on in the unit. 

 

I forgot to answer your second question - Yes in the picture the bottom plug (the one closest to the front of the case) is the clean side. If you look at the circuit board, it is labeled "Clean Power."

[InfinitelyBaffled]

10 hours ago, 01svtL said:

 

Thanks for the reply.  Anyone in here that also purchased a Player, can you confirm?  I never saw a light come on with mine, which is why I'm wondering if this is why I never got sound to play through D1S board.  I could only get sound out of the RPi headphone jack.  It wasn't until I connected the right side (dirty) that I saw any lights.

 

You should have one green LED on the middle board that is lit from the moment it gets power and also a green and red LED on the Pi. The red LED on the Pi should be constantly lit, if it is blinking, it is not getting enough power. The green LED on the Pi may blink intermittently, especially when booting. This is for the B+ board. 

[InfinitelyBaffled]

5 hours ago, the_bat said:

Hi

If I power the pi through it's normal mini-usb connection then the red led comes on and stays on through the boot process.  If I power it via the dirty side of the DigiOne Signature then the red led comes on for a few seconds then goes off.  The pi boots OK and seems to work normally.  Is this normal or should I be concerned?

Thanks

Alan

 

I think it depends on the version of the board. On the 3B+, it is supposed to stay lit. If if goes out, it supposedly means the voltage has dropped below the minimum 4.63v threshold.  Do you have USB devices connected to the Pi? 

[InfinitelyBaffled]

13 hours ago, kotlarix said:

Here is mine,  not finished yet though playing music like a champ.

 

Power supply:

1st (RPI) TOMANEK mini

2nd (Digione signature) Sturder 900 chinese copy from Ebay (13$) - changed all caps to Nichicon FG Audio, extra polymer films, and audio grade transformer 15VAC

 

Sounds amazing, for now I played only spotify through airplay (I was sure that chromecast had ok quality but Allo DS it's a rocket)

 

I added delay module before TOMANEK PSU so it's switching it ON with 45sec delay (allo advice is to connect dirty side with approx 40sec later after powering DS)

 

Next step it's ATX POWER off button but I need to order pcb board first

 

 

Congratulations!  Looks great!  What's that breakout board on top the Pi?

[InfinitelyBaffled]

6 hours ago, Ian End said:

I received my DigiOne Signature last week. So far I have not managed to get a single sound out of it - not from DietPi+WebGui, not from Volumio. I can see that it is playing (e.g., by looking at http://volumio/dev) but there is nothing coming out of my amp. I've tested both the amp input and cable by connecting it to my CD player, which immediately played music through the amplifier.

 

I'm at a loss, and unless I can get this working quickly I will want to return the DigiOne as it is a lot more trouble than it is worth right now. I'm very frustrated by what I had thought would be a high-quality product actually turning out to be quite amateur.

 

You mention the DigiOne and your amp, but you do not mention what DAC you are using between the two - so what are you connecting to the DigiOne? And what is your amp?

[InfinitelyBaffled]

14 hours ago, Spenagio said:

quick 'computer' audiophile style question on using the DS as a Roon endpoint;

 

I currently use a MacBook pro as Roon core and control device (along with iPhone). The DS acts as the endpoint feeding the streaming signal to my DAC. Happy days, works a dream. 

 

I would now like to avoid having to use my laptop for every listening session, but as all my music files sit on the SSD that is not possible. Intention is to use an iPad Pro for control, but wondering if I would merely have to move my music files to a HDD connected to my router, or somewhere else on the network to avoid booting up the laptop. 

 

Dumb question I know, but I'm not the most tech-literate....any help appreciated.

 

If you want to take your MacBook out of the loop, completely, you'd have to provide a new device to run Roon Core. If you just want to move your music files, you could load them onto a NAS device and attach that to your network - as long as the computer running Roon core can see the files, it should work fine. It doesn't take anything fancy to do this. I have my music files on a very old Netgear ReadyNAS unit and run the core on a dedicated 2011 model Mac Mini. I control Roon with my macbook or iphone. 

[InfinitelyBaffled]

On my Mac mini, I went to the Energy Savings Settings and changed the "Computer Sleep" to never. That solved the standby issue. Is your iMac the version with the integrated monitor? You could set the monitor to sleep immediately since you don't need it when running as Roon core. I think it would work just fine as a Roon core.

[InfinitelyBaffled]

A common Ethernet crossover cable would probably do the trick. It just reverses the TX and RX lines, eliminating the need for a switch.