Active speakers with DAC and remote controlled pre amp

[CryoParts]

Thanks for the welcome. I should have joined long ago, but I am not a big forum guy, I really only post occasionally at AudioCircle. But, this place seems to be pretty cool, so I look forward to learning from all of you, and hopefully bringing something to the table. I have been using an iMac as one of my sources for quite some time now, and I have been very happy with the sound.

 

Yes, Jeff did a nice review of the Sonicweld Pulserod system late last year. He summed it up pretty well. It is a remarkably transparent system, and unlike anything else out there, IMHO.

 

FYI--Josh (the owner of Sonicweld) is working on a smaller, but still incredibly potent, system now. It will be a full solution, ie., it will include everything from source to speakers. "Soup to nuts".

 

Disclaimer--I provide all the custom cabling for the Sonicweld systems.

 

Peace,

 

Lee

 

[Ashley James]

Tony

 

I wasn't making any oblique reference to my company particularly, oblique or otherwise, I merely stated the facts and those are that Tubes Amps, regardless of cost, have more distortion than Transistor ones, that it comprises of odd order harmonics and it makes them harsher than the best solid state ones.

 

However you've presented me with an opportunity to discuss another hi fi born myth and that's cost versus performance. Electronic components, even the best, cost very little and the same ones appear in cheap commercial stuff as in the most expensive. I've just had a testimonial from a customer who'd been given comparison between a ludicrously expensive high end server's analogue output and the digital one from a Denon DVD player, which sounded better to him. In the event he bought a £34 DVD player that turned out to have a better sound than the magic server. Both probably had the same DACs and one had been better implemented than the other!

 

Martin Grindrod is the brains in AVI and I provide the political gaffs! He has a collection of tube electronics going back to a 1923 AJS radio, various American civilian and military receivers from the late twenties and UK ones up to the present day. For his proper job (before AVI) he was a military avionics engineer and he was once the youngest radio amateur and slow scan TV operator in the UK. There is nothing he doesn't know about tubes, which isn't a lot compared to modern solid state stuff. And if that isn't enough, AVI was made tested and shipped for many years by Arthur Radford's chief engineer. You can Google Radford, but his valve amps, distortion analysers and test oscillators were amongst the finest ever made. We have the experience and the knowledge to give an expert opinion.

 

The cost of electronics has been tumbling for years. 15-20 years ago it cost over £500,000 to equip a recording studio and now you can do a better job for under £20K! Professional DACs are far more versatile, usually better sounding and always a fraction of the cost of hi fi. There's a lot of snobbery in hi fi and it always starts by qualifying performance with price, presumably it's a dealer thing. However products like ADM9.1s make the comparisons impossible because they throw away the most expensive parts of a separates system, the enclosures. You only have to pay for one pair of speaker boxes and no others. There are lots of other advantages to and every time I've extolled them on UK forums, I've been pounced on as advertising by those who don't want to believe you can do better for less and those who are retailing less for a great deal more.

 

Please give me a break, it would be fun to be on a forum without defending AVI all the time.

 

Ash

 

[Tonyc]

Ashley

 

the fact remains valves are still in use and have in fact experienced a resurgence in popularity and usage.

 

I can't argue with your credentials, and I agree that ADM9.1s are the logical conclusion for a lot of people, but sometimes a bit (or a lot) of Industrial Design BLING has it's place for people who want it.

 

I should probably take the rest of my contribution off-line, for reasons best explained privately... and to keep the forum atmosphere upbeat. I apologise for this, and previous posts if you feel you have had to defend some jibes at AVIHIFI. That wasn't my intention at all. Some interesting views and pieces of information have made my attention, so I'm grateful...

 

cheers

 

Tony

 

[Ashley James]

Tony

You're absolutely right and I agree what you're saying. My points refer entirely to what is technically possible in the best implementations and take no account of people's reasons for buying Audio equipment.

I also apologise for being oversensitive too with AVI, the fights these speakers have caused on some Forums are almost to the death and some have raged for 18 months!!! I'm not used to being the public domain or being the victim of such extraordinary vitriol. This Forum is so much more level headed and friendly and it covers the right subject. Therefore I'm anxious to strive for acceptance of scientific fact, for that is at the base of all the controversy in the UK and even more anxious not to offend or antagonise others on here by expressing differing opinions or contradicting misconceptions.

 

I'd also like to avoid being an advertorial and simply discuss in general terms.

 

very sincerely

 

Ashley

 

[Tonyc]

Ashley

 

heh, you're probably a victim for no good reason other than you are the harbinger of disruptive technologies. Science often isn't the basis of commonly held beliefs in hi-fi and I'm fairly realistic about that. Everyone has an opinion on what "good" sound is, just as everyone knows about art. Like all matters of human life, they're politically loaded subjects, of which, everyone has the right to hold views, erroneous or not. I have imaginings of William Golding's Lord of the Flies, and you know what happened to the owner of the only useful piece of technology on the island...

 

Well, I'm not suggesting that such a fate awaits you, but Golding cast some interesting insights into the plight of the human condition.

 

I've well and truly strayed off-topic now...

 

[The Computer Audiophile]

Said very well TonyC.

 

[Ashley James]

Tony

 

I agree it is well said and your understanding is much appreciated, I also think it's kind of Chris to allow digression as it gives us much better understanding of fellow contributors, hi fi discussions alone don't bear think about!

 

Ash

 

[darrenwm]

As an attempt to get back on topic, does anybody know of an active loudspeaker at the lower end of the market that is remote-controlled?

 

I have a couple of friends who have small flats and would like some sounds. I dread for them to buy a home cinema in the box from the High Street, and am struggling to find a decent alternative for not much more than a few hundred pounds...

 

[Tonyc]

http://jbl.com/home/products/product_detail.aspx?prod=CONTROL%202.4G&Language=ENG&Country=US&Region=USA&cat=WIR&ser=COS

 

Hi Darren

 

JBL do a powered monitor from their famous control series. It even does wireless source, so perfect for say an iPod dock with a remote.

 

Seems strange to be back on topic ;-)

 

[jcbrum]

The lowest cost with good sound is to set your computer to 24bit sound and use a low cost ir remote control for the volume, such as Keyspan Express, and then use wired active LS.

 

Consider Fostex PM0.4 £99 pair.

 

Regards JC.

 

[darrenwm]

Thank you to you both.

 

Those JBLs look like an excellent idea and I will be forwarding a link to a few people this evening!

 

JC, wiring is not a problem in the situations that I have in mind.

 

Controlling the volume via remote in the computer would be fine, but better if my friends had Apple computers with the lovely Front Row and matching remote.

 

Are there any more active speakers that come with a remote for their volume in case a computer isn't always the source?

 

More JBLs?

 

[jcbrum]

Darren, I was trying to keep the budget under £150, but if a little more cash is available then there are a couple of facts which are often overlooked.

 

Several LS are available with toslink opt input but no volume control. This is not a problem. Use an Airport Express to provide the optical audio signal to the speakers and plug the Keyspan Express (not standard Keyspan) into the usb socket on the AEx. It works with Windows as well as OSX, and gives better functionality than Frontrow but without the artwork.

 

Essentially this is a way of providing wireless sound and ir remote playback controls to a cheap XP laptop and active LS, for approx £100.

 

Also the Keyspan will control lots of other programs like movies slideshows and presentations as well. It's a bit like a poor mans atv.

 

JC.

 

[darrenwm]

Thank you, JC.

 

I'm browsing the Keyspan website now, and they certainly make some handy gadgets.

 

I will discuss with my friends and see what will fit their requirements.

 

Obviously ADM9.1s would be the best bet and the best sound, but they're not majorly into their audio, so wouldn't like to spend that much. It makes me wonder though whether there's a market for a smaller, cheaper version..?

 

[Gracey]

Hi,

 

This is my first post so hello to all!

 

I attended the Heathrow show last week and heard some excellent active speakers which may be of interest. http://www.aktimate.com/

 

They have a remote and an ipod can even dock atop one of the speakers. There is no internal DAC but for £400 I can see these being a big hit.

 

Regards.

 

[crion]

darrenwm: "The requirements:

 

-Active speakers.

-Digital inputs, and maybe an analogue one too.

-Remote control for volume and input selection.

-Domestically acceptable

 

I really can't think of any."

 

http://www.meridian-audio.com/

 

That exact requirement is the Meridian DSP Speaker range DSP3100-DSP8000. Now I understand cost is a major concern; I would check out ads on Audiogon or Ebay for used DSP5000 24/96 versions. They will accept two digital sources 16/44.1kHz-24/96kHz and you can control sources and volume via the enclosed remote. A more slim or WAF friendly package is hard to find as well as being able to rock the room with 3*75W active amplifiers, one for every speakercone.

 

I started my livingroom setup with just my HTPC and a digitalTV box connected to a Meridian DSP5000 pair and it is just dynamite bang-for-the-buck sound and at the same time, slick!

 

 

[Ashley James]

Active speakers have dominated the Pro sector for many years now, so it's well worth subscribing to the SOS website where they are reviewed on a regular basis. The magazine is one of the most highly regarded in the World of Pro Audio, as well as in the United States and the UK from whence it originates.

 

Paul White the Editor was ex RRE at Malvern and is an Engineer and Hugh Robjohns was head of the BBC training School at Wood Norton and is also an engineer. Good credentials and informed writing, therefore highly recommended. These people record and produce music of all types, they've taught the subject and they know good sound.

 

Active Monitors would dominated more than thirty years ago IMO if the subjective side of things hadn't swept them aside in its wake. Now the situation is different, Hi Fi is falling from favour and people can see benefit in combining TV, Computers and sound as elegantly as possible and to an extent Active, Pro Audio Monitors can help. However, Pros have their foibles as well and theirs is paying a fortune for old Microphones when new ones from China are as good and pairing back the Monitor spend to pay for them! Therefore Active Studio Monitors represent better value than much of Hi Fi, but few if any, really stand out IMO.

 

Ashley

 

[Ashley James]

These speakers aren't active, they just have quite modestly powered amps attached to them. IMO the Studio Market has much more to offer in this price band. However there is a speaker due that does represent pretty good value due out shortly and it's from Focal JM Labs. It has an iPod Dock and decent amplifiers of over 100 wpc channel and it'll retail for £499 in the UK. More than worth the extra IMO.

 

Ashley

 

[cj]

My set-up

 

For Airtunes from a MacBook Pro.

 

Dynaudio MC 15 active loud speakers plus a Dynaudio 250 Sub connnected to an Airpot Express.

 

The Airport Express is directly connected to the 250 Sub. The MC15's and connected to the sub.

 

Volume controlled from itunes.

 

For cd's things are more complex.

 

I use a preamp for volume control.

 

Both set-ups sound great. The cd/preamp gives slightly better imagining, sound stage and volume control.

 

I live in an apartment and find this speaker system ideal for my needs.

 

 

 

 

[JamesF]

Hi cj, and welcome to CA. would love to know how your speaker system sounds, im currently considering the mc15 sub250 package, although they are very hard to find here in the UK. are the speakers on par with good standmount speakers, how do the sats blend with the sub? im sure other people on the site would appreciate your feedback.

 

Jim

 

[cj]

Hey Jim,

 

Good to hear from you. The path I took to end up with active Dynaudio MC 15 plus 250 sub is quite long but I'm very happy with the result. in short, I had auditioned some very impressive sound systems, including my favorite a Primare pre + Power amp into Elac jet speakers. Just before shelling out the cash (lots of Cash!) I realized most of the music I'd purchased recently were 'itune' downloads. Also the format war was playing on my mind, - e.g. blu-ray future in the audio market- and tended to lead me away from purchasing a high-end cd player and component system with passive speakers, not to mention the added hassle of speaker cabling. Another issue was that I was becoming frustrated with the sound quality of my 2.1 computer speakers, which were "apparently" some of the best available.- NOT!! The problem: multifactorial. The solution: A convergence of needs. For me the active Dynaudio MC 15 speakers plus Active Sub 250, solved my problem nicely. My previous system was a Arcam Solo matched with a pair of Dynaudio Audience 42s (again ideal for a smallish apartment) so I had a good reference system. The Dynaudio MC 15 are great for my lifestyle/ living situation. The sub 250 gives the system great depth and is particularly good if you like Dance/ electronic or classical music. IMO the MC15 plus sub sounds at least as good as the solo/Audience 42 set-up, (both systems sound great your choice will depend on your music tastes).

 

I hope this helps.

 

The best thing to do is give them an audition.

Good luck.

 

 

 

[JamesF]

Thanks for your reply cj. I had a similar experience auditioning a few mid end systems, naim and cyrus mainly, and unfortunatly I did shell out the cash, and now one year on I find myself drawn to the flexibility and ease of use of computer based audio, also wishing to ditch the speaker cables and go for actives like yourself. However this brings issues of needing longer than normal interconnects from the preamp to active speaker! what lengths do you use? Any loss in quality?

I also have a smallish apartment and think these may be the ideal solution for quality sound in smaller space, unfortunalty due to work and location an audition isnt an option.

 

An interesting video on active speakers by meridian's bob staurt...

http://uk.cinenow.com/videos/318-meridian-bob-stuart-on-digital-dsp-loudspeakers

 

also if you look around on that site, you can see ashley demonstrating his adm9's

 

[Ashley James]

That's not me on Youtube, it's young Darren!

 

The ADM9.1s differ quite a lot from Dynaudios in that the bass driver is better behaved up to near 10kHz, so we can put the crossover at 3.4 kHz and not worry about nasty artefacts affecting phase. The crossover is perfect 4th audio, so inaudible. I think the Dynaudio one is around 2 kHz.

 

ADM9.1s also have a remotely controlled presettable gain stage between the DAC and the electronic crossover so that you can use it preset with an external preamp plugged into the analogue inputs, although most downgrade the sound quality.

 

Active speakers were born from PA and drive units with very irregular amplitude responses. The electronic crossover was used to correct these anomalies and people still do it despite the impact it has on phase. The result is a much smaller advantage over passive systems. Our speakers just use textbook filters with better and modern drive units, which means the crossover, which is in an area were are ears are most sensitive, isn't audible. It's what sets ours apart.

 

Sadly Meridian have been acquired by Richemont who own the Dunhill brand name, so I suspect we'll see a change of direction. Perhaps these new portables are part of the strategy.

 

The Industry is finding things very hard at the moment.

 

Ash

 

[darrenwm]

I haven't heard those Dyn actives but used the Contour 1.1 for a couple of years, which I really used to love, and were highly regarded.

 

They needed serious amps though and even after spending thousands there were a couple of niggles in the sound. The main one is a slightly recessed/closed midrange.

 

I demo'd the AVI ADM9 and it was quite a different sound that I had to get used to, but they were better and cost far less and it was a no-brainer to buy them.

 

I've now owned them all year and have recently added the matching subwoofer, of which I will do a review on this website.

 

My old Copland/Plinius/Dynaudio system was in a different league to an Arcam Solo with 42s, and the AVI is better still.

 

[JamesF]

I meant this video, http://uk.cinenow.com/videos/1461-avi-puts-hi-fi-system-inside-their-adm9s-speakers-sound-vision-bristol-show-2008

 

Thanks for adding some input, however the talk of khz and hz is lost on me, not technically minded in that dept. Id love to test these out side by side but unfortunaltly im commiting a hi fi sin and buying blind, but with the guidance of the vast knowlege on this forum! so im sure i wont go too far wrong! As you may know im considering focal solo 6 speakers too. fronted by ps audio equipment, their pre amps use a gain stage, unlike a normal preamp i beleive, though i could be wrong and im stepping into waters beyond my knowlege anyway possibly similar thinking to your pre amp gain in the adm's!

 

Jim

 

[Ashley James]

I look a lot older now and we've introduced the 9.1s now that are better.

 

Ash