Sprout 100 ? NAD D 3020 ? Vidar ? Stellar S300

[gmgraves]

On 4/19/2018 at 2:36 PM, RMMN said:

Hello,

 

I would like to become an audiophile as a new hobby. I don’t know that much about amplifiers and speakers at the audiophile level. May humbly ask the more experienced  members of the forum for their opinion and recommendations?

 

SETUP:

I will be running with the Elac Uni-fi UF5 speakers. As a start, I’ll be your playing from my iPhone from Apple Music to Airport Express:output 3.5 mm Jack or mini tosslink.

 

AMP:

I need help choosing an amp:

 

Sprout 100 ?

New Version to come out in May.  I won’t be using vinyl.

 

NAD D 3020 ?

 

Vidar ?

Looking at the specs/price this is impressive.

 

Stellar S300?

 PS audio claims this is very good. Class A —> Class D.

 

Any experience/recommendations you can share with me will help.

Thank you.

Your source is inadequate. Use a computer and buy an inexpensive DAC, say a Schiit Modi connect them via USB. Believe me it will be better than an iPhone seven ways to sundown! Now the Amp.

Of the amps you mention, I'd go with the Schiit Freya/Vidar combo. But don't overlook a mail-order company called Emotiva. They have an integrated amp (with a built-in FM tuner, a built-in DAC and phono preamp and control amp, 50 Watt/channel power amp) called theTA-100 that sells for only US$399! It's entry level "high-end" gear and sounds pretty good. It's a good place to start and with your computer and a USB cable to the unit,  you have everything you need. Just add speakers!

 

https://emotiva.com/collections/pre-amps/products/ta-100

 

Emotiva gear is also available from Amazon. 

[gmgraves]

7 hours ago, RMMN said:

I’m going to demo some Magnepan 0.7 speakers at a dealer today. Would these be a good choice if I went with the Vidar?

 

I have a pair of .7s (although I'm not using them and have promised them to a buyer) and they are excellent and punch way above their weight! They are clean, very low distortion, wide frequency response, and very detailed. The only caveat I have for somebody contemplating the purchase of a pair is that even though they are spec'd at 45 Hz to 22KHz ± 3dB, they don't have what I would consider very satisfying bass. Don't get me wrong, what bass they do have is pretty peerless. Tight, fast, articulate they just sound like they peter-out quickly below 45 Hz, that's all. You could buy now and enjoy excellent music reproduction, and add a subwoofer (or two) later on. With a good sub, they would be hard to beat at any price. They would be a perfect match for the Vidar or the Emotiva TA-100. 

[gmgraves]

2 hours ago, DancingSea said:

 

In my humble opinion, and you are certainly entitled to your own, Emotiva is not junk.  It may not be top of the line, but junk is way to strong. 

 

If its junk to you, so be it!

GUTB is a price snob! Pay him no mind when he goes on like this. I have placed TA-100s in several non-audiophile friends' systems and they have all been delighted. They sound incredibly good especially for the price. In one case, the Emotiva replaced a high-dollar (but older) Musical Fidelity integrated that died and the guy who bought fell in love with it. He said it was so much better than the Marantz in every way, that he went back a listened to some of his CD collection way into the night marveling at how much more detailed the Emotiva was than his high-dollar (but dead) Musical Fidelity. Is it as good as, say a Schiit Freya/Vidar? No it isn't. It hasn't the power nor ultimately the "Fi" but it is better than most entry level "High-end" equipment and is certainly better than any mid-fi stuff. It's what the world needs. Good audio at average Joe prices.  

[gmgraves]

15 hours ago, GUTB said:

 

They make crap. To a home theatre enthusiast that just needs power, sharp highs and thudding lows Emotiva is pretty good without spending big $$$ on luxury brand names like say, Anthem. To an audiophile though they make junk. I wouldn’t even consider Emotiva entry-level.

 

When I was visiting the Emotiva room at AXPONA I overheard the rep giving someone a spiel about how Emotiva is being taken seriously as a high end manufacturer without the price tag or something to that effect. The reason why they aren’t taken seriously by audiophiles is because when I tried thier BasX class A/B amp (forget the model) it was the WORST amp I’ve ever heard, second only to the old ICEPower Teac integrated (which is truly unlistenable). My thought process when buying it was "how bad can a big modern linear class a/b really be?" Everyone knows "you get what you pay for" but I suppose hope springs eternal...

 

I think Emotiva’s model is take the lowest end parts available in the Chinese supply chain and stamp them together.

See, my experiences with Emotiva is entirely different from yours. I have recommended Emotiva to a number of Newbie acquaintances, friends, and co-workers. All have praised me for my recommendations, citing that they had no idea that they could get so much good sound for so little wampum. One co-worker bought their XSP-1 Differential preamp ($1200) and their 550 WPC XPA-DR2 differential power amp ($1600) and loves them both. He replaced a pair of McIntosh MC-60 power amps and a McIntosh C-11 preamp (both of which he sold) and replaced them with the Emotiva gear. He got so much for his Mc gear ($4500) that it more than paid for his new Emotiva Solid State stuff ($2800). He's as happy as a puppy with two peters! And like I said, I've recommended several TA-100 integrated to happy listeners.   

[gmgraves]

12 minutes ago, GUTB said:

 

There were what, 160 rooms at AXPONA and almost all of them featured box speakers. Why is it that you’re much more likely to see a YG, Magico, Wilson or Focal at these shows?

That's simple. Box speakers are trivial to make. A little furniture-grade carpentry skill, a few formulas and drivers sourced from any number of raw speaker builders (many will even make drivers to your own specifications) and Voila! you have box speaker product. OTOH, building an isodynamic speaker like the Magnepans or electrostatics such as the Martin-Logans or the Sound Labs requires serious manufacturing facilities and specialized (and expensive) equipment to fabricate the panels! Of course there are going to be more box speaker makers than bipolar planar-type speaker manufacturers!

Another reason, perhaps, is that not everyone's decor can accommodate a pair of Maggies or M-Ls or Sound Lab speakers. They tend to be large, monolithic and take-up a lot of room and can be placement fussy. I also understand that for all of those reasons, they have a pretty low WAF. 

Anyway, none of those things have anything to do with SQ. I'll guarantee that a pair of Magnapan MG-.7s outperform many other kinds of speakers costing many times their $1500 price tag. The entry level Martin Logan ElectroMotion ESL ($2500) is one of the best sounding speakers at any price!  

[gmgraves]

20 minutes ago, GUTB said:

 

What was your favorite room at AXPONA? Did you hear any Magnepans there?

Yes. The new Magnepan MG-30.7. Among the best speakers there and compared to many, a bargain at $30K. Absolutely outperforming the most expensive speakers from Wilson, Magico, YG Acoustics, etc. 

You really like to shoot from the hip don't you GUTB?

[gmgraves]

2 minutes ago, RMMN said:

I demo’ed the taller Magnepan 1.7 speakers (I had originally wanted to hear the 0.7’s but the 1.7’s were already hooked up), driven by a large Audio Research amp. I listened to Harry Connick Jr.’s Red Light, Blue Light Jazz song. It sounded very clean, with the right amount of bass for that type of music. But since I also like dance/Hip-hop and like to feel the deep bass with my body, the dealer added a top of the line REL subwoofer to the mix, and it’s at that point that the system sounded excellent. 

You couldn't go wrong with either the 1.7s or the .7s, but both could use a sub woofer or two!

[gmgraves]

19 hours ago, Ralf11 said:

OP - lots of people are telling you to get a sub with the Maggies (and lots of people do that and are very happy)

 

but Magnepan will try to talk you out of that due to interface concerns as they cross over; after many years, they introduced the DWM bass panel (they say it gives you "more bass" but not "deeper bass" - which may mean it doesn't go all that low, but reinforces the downslope of the SPL vs. freq. response plot) - those should go 1 ft. in front of the normal panels, so that is more space

 

- for the record, I have a pair of 3.7i Maggies, which replaced 1.5QRs (which in turn replaced Vandersteens - perhaps a better speaker for rock n roll with a big back beat)

 

George - I hope they have a color besides blue for the big Maggies

Yes, they feel that cone subs are "too slow" to keep up with the almost massless ribbon and "quasi-ribbon" technology the company uses. And while that might be technically true, I've heard many Maggies paired with various subs from companies like Velodyne, Sun, and even Martin Logan, and I've yet to hear one setup that didn't work. I have heard the sub panel that Magnepan sells, and I really wasn't impressed (certainly not for $800). They are right about one thing, it doesn't give deeper bass, just "more" bass! Believe it or not, if properly spent, that $800 can buy one quality bass response down into the mid 20's from any Maggie, including the MG-.7s.

And I suspect that the 30.7s are available in other colors than blue.

[gmgraves]

34 minutes ago, GUTB said:

It’s interesting how the online low end seems to generally fall towards this pole of gravity dominated by Magnepans and class-D.

Since when are six thousand dollar and up speakers "the low end"? Just because they sell two models (3 if you count the entry, mail-order only MMG) that are under $2K, doesn't make them "low-end" in performance. For instance, the MG -.7, at $1500, sounds better  (and by that I mean they out-perform) than any stand mounted mini-monitor, regardless of price and that includes the wildly over-priced Wilson Duette II at almost $20 grand as well as other speakers of that type like the Raidho D-1.1 ($37K) and any of the gorgeous Sonus Faber stand mounts I've ever heard. You are a price snob, my friend, and it shows!

 

I won't comment on the Class-D amplification. I've only heard two at any great length. One is the 50 WPC NAD 5070, and the 150 WPC (8Ω) Behringer NU1000. Neither are what I would call high-end, but both do some things superbly well. I wouldn't hesitate to employ the Behringer as a sub-woofer amplifier, the bass is that good, The NAD sounds pretty nice, but it doesn't image very well in that it has a very shallow, and not too wide soundstage. It would be fine for a vacation cottage system or an office system, though but it only has digital inputs. 

[gmgraves]

3 hours ago, GUTB said:

 

When we look at the $20k and up spectrum you’ll see Wilsons, TADs, Magicos, etc. What they all have in common: large super-heavy box speakers. The low-end is, let’s say, less than $2k. These are dominated by lightweight box speakers. But you’ll find online discussions like here in CA the discussion seems to gravitate towards Magnepans. Not the legendary Quads, not the more expensive MLs or the other more boutique panel speaker makers — Magnepans. The discussion usually looks like this: "the .7 is great," "yeah the 1.7 is the best," "Magnepans beat $20k speakers," etc and so on. 

 

No one ever says: "the smaller Magnepans have great air and imaging but have inferior soundstages and lack sonic weight, KEF R-series are much better in those areas".

You are right. No one ever says "the smaller Magnepans have great air and imaging but have inferior soundstages and lack sonic weight, KEF R-series are much better in those areas" because the second part of that statement isn't true. And again, you show your monetary snobbism, GUTB, because most audio enthusiasts in this world can't afford a pair of $200,000+ Wilsons or Magicos, and Frankly, the big KEFs leave me cold as do most box speakers and that includes the aforementioned Wilsons and Magicos. If I were in the market for new speakers, I'd still go with either Maggie MG-3.7is or MG-20.7is or perhaps M-L Renaissance ESL 15A, or maybe their Expression ESL13A . And if I wanted to really spend on speakers, I go for the M-L Neoliths or maybe spend a little less and buy MG-30.7s. Some people prefer the speed, airiness and coherence of diaphragm-based planar speakers, and find even the most expensive box speakers with conventional drivers too damned slow! 

You know there was a time when the average Joe could afford to have a state-of-the-art audio system, because even the best wasn't so expensive that the average working man making $5K/yr couldn't afford the very best. There was no audio snobbery of the kind you exhibit. It's too bad that greed and avarice have taken over this avocation like it has taken over everything else in this society!

[gmgraves]

3 hours ago, GUTB said:

 

Why do you want people to have inferior music experiences?

So he can feel superior. Why else?

[gmgraves]

5 hours ago, Ralf11 said:

 

This one:

 

 

 

Ah, the Krell room. obviously!

[gmgraves]

17 hours ago, MarkS said:

 

REL and JL Audio are well regarded as is Velodyne. Depending on room size, two smaller subs likely would outperform one larger sub (e.g., two 10” vs. one 13”), but that is speculative and room dependent. 

Actually, in spite of the common wisdom that below 200Hz, sound is non-directional, Many, including me, have found that stereo subs help low frequency imaging a lot. Yes, it's true that we generally locate things like bass drum, bass viol (bull fiddle) and bassoon primarily from those instruments' overtones above 200 Hz, I (and many others) have found that a stereo pair of subwoofers make those locations a lot firmer and less inclined to wander around with frequency.