Building a PC to improve SMS-200 Ultra

[Johnseye]

Just now, ElviaCaprice said:

It's a waste of time Johnseye, he only wants to sell his agenda like he knows it all.  Nobody else is going to come up with better solutions.  Regardless he's going to make it sound like his way is the only way, with tons of misinformation on other solutions that aren't his, and even his.  Incredible, that's why I put him on ignore.  Has nothing of interest or contribution.

 

I could repackage what he said and pretend it came from me and he'd argue against it.

[Johnseye]

3 minutes ago, TopQuark said:

 

LOL.  Let me quote you here: From Johnseye: "The sms product line is not the same.  It's an endpoint.  If it could host the application processing the music that would be one thing, but it's not."

 

This quote does not say server motherboard only.  It points out that you can't run Roon core on an sMS-200.

 

 

3 minutes ago, TopQuark said:

 

 

 

I never said it is not. I just said the return is diminished as you go farther away from the DAC.

 

 

Here you go: From Johnseye: "My approach to using the SOtM USB card in the PC is to eliminate the endpoint.".....  "The board I've identified, and will likely send off to SOtM for modification is the Jetway NF591.  Very similar to the DFI board Roy is using."

 

That does not say mobo based server only.  It states I'm using the sCLK-EX and tx-USB in the server instead of an endpoint.  These are essentially the same components in an sMS-200ultra which is why I don't get why you don't understand this approach.

 

2 hours ago, Johnseye said:

Point out where I said Jetway mobo based server only.  Link it or quote it.  Upstream to the endpoint would be the server, downstream would be the DAC.  I meant upstream.  Maybe you should try modifying your server's system clocks yourself instead of arguing against it.

 

 

3 minutes ago, TopQuark said:

What is relevant about this question?  Who is against it?  My earlier post even commended you for having a spare clock in the sMS-200ultra hooking it up to the mac mini.

 

What are you arguing against exactly?

 

3 minutes ago, TopQuark said:

I am NOT against a Jetway mobo as a Roon server to sMS-200ultra.  It's just not the ideal server board for Roon Server because you cannot run ROCK which the OP is planning to use from his original message.  I'm correcting a bad advise.  I am against using Jetway mobo as a sole server when OP already has sMS-200ultra.

 

Again, what are you arguing against?

 

You can run ROCK on a server built with a Jetway mobo.  Why do you think that's not possible?

 

 

3 minutes ago, TopQuark said:

 

You said, I am pushing Intel NUC and now mac mini?  Here's your refresher:

 

From Johnseye: "I was pointing out you don't need a NUC.  You definitely have an opinion or there wouldn't be this conversation."

 

Yup, I'm not sure what you support or are against anymore.

 

3 minutes ago, TopQuark said:

 

The OP already has a mac mini!  All he needs is to connect the spare clock from sMS-200ultra or buy a NUC so he can run ROCK.  He can also connect the clock from sMS-200ultra.

 

I do not have a particular agenda except to help the OP and not push for something I think works better only for me.

 

So you think he should spend money on a NUC when he has a mac mini?  Which is it, NUC or mac mini?

 

I don't think you know what you're talking about.  You're just caught up trying to win an argument that you've taken your own position into several different directions.

[Johnseye]

13 minutes ago, TopQuark said:

 

Windows 10 is free...

 

It can be used for free without authenticating it.

 

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You can install ROCK on a fanless Celeron NUC...

 

Yes, you can.

 

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No one has added sCLK-EX in a mobo...

 

 

Yes they have

 

Quote

ROCK will work with your standard Intel platform....

 

Yes it will in a generic sense.  As you pointed out, Roon doesn't guarantee it will work, which means they won't offer support. Doesn't mean you can't do it.

 

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ROCK uses a specific Linux distro....

 

Yes it does.  "A Linux distribution (often abbreviated as distro) is an operating system made from a software collection, which is based upon the Linux kernel".  This is exactly what ROCK is.

 

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Packets cannot be blocked from the subnet in Roon....

 

 

Danny's explanation was to not include DNS or the gateway.  This really comes down to semantics.   

 

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... need I say more?

 

Don't and we can stop this back and forth.

[Johnseye]

4 hours ago, TopQuark said:

Sure. Try it.  Consider yourself warned:

 

https://kb.roonlabs.com/Roon_Optimized_Core_Kit

 

I've done it.  I installed ROCK on my "cheap" yet industrial and really not cheap Jetway board.   It works just fine.  I had absolutely no problem what so ever.

 

 

4 hours ago, TopQuark said:

 

So you've changed your mind in me supporting NUC again? The problem is you skipped my posts.  NUC = if he want to run ROCK.  Mac-mini = if he want to run Roon Server

 

I don't care what you support.  What you shouldn't do is mislead people with misinformation by saying something can't work, someone shouldn't do this or that and that they're considered warned.  Do you think you're the Roon police?  My point which you clearly missed is that you can install ROCK an a lot more than a NUC and you sure don't need a mac to run Roon core.

[Johnseye]

I have installed ROCK in the past. 

 

I'm done here. 

[Johnseye]

4 hours ago, LTG2010 said:

It will work but will struggle with Hi res DSD etc with upsampling, convolution and heavy load  DSP enabled.

Why take the risk when Roon labs recomends NUC717BNH a 3.5Ghz processor? You can carry out SOTM's mods to this unit or a similar one and it has a DC input 12-19V for a linear power supply, you can use it with the ultra or have it modded completely as Elvia's post. Seems best of both worlds.

 

That NUC is a very good option for a higher performing, low power server.  It only has one NIC but if that's all you need, which really comes down to bridging or not, then it's an excellent choice when powered by a 19v LPSU.

[Johnseye]

12 hours ago, LTG2010 said:

I have an i5 6300hq quad core with a base frequency of 2.3 Ghz and 3.0ghz in turbo mode. Running Roon with upsampling to 32/192 and DSP  enabled the processor settles down at around 1 Ghz. Using similar but DSD 128 the frequency jumps to 3 Ghz.

I have a USB to ethernet adapter for bridge mode( the ethernet socket direct to Ultra and the USB for internet/network), although I dont use internet streaming so can't judge how this adapter might degrade the quality, nothing seems ideal.

 

I don't know what kind of impact a USB to ethernet adapter has on the sound.  Maybe none, but to me it's just another thing that could have an impact as opposed to an onboard NIC.  Another issue with the NUCs is there's no PCI slot, so you can never add a better USB device to the board itself.  You're limited to either an ethernet endpoint or one of the NUC's USB chips.  You could however have SOtM modify the onboard USB with an sCLK.  But you'd still want to use a tx-USBultra or sMS for the filter.  Another issue with the NUC is it's difficult to upgrade.  If you build your own you can easily swap out components.  Not for everyone, but if you're competent with PCs it has its benefits.

[Johnseye]

17 minutes ago, ismewor said:

Just to follow up on the Linear ATX solution. Sam at TLS got back to me and they are working on one actually. the voltage is going to be around 600-800W he said and it will be more like a 7-9 Rail setting. He said they been working on this for almost 2 years and it is pretty close to production release. he said once the spec available will updated on the site or email to me.  i already replied i will be the first one on the list. 

 

And the cost will only be $10k?  What would you do with 800W and 9 rails?  That's a lot of power.

[Johnseye]

43 minutes ago, ismewor said:

That might just be enough, and I think 7 tails would be perfect .

 

Just enough for what? A gaming PC doesn't use that much power. 

[Johnseye]

33 minutes ago, ismewor said:

Enough for an true audio Server PC, Yes, computer draw tons of power, even without a heavy GPU. 

 

It doesn't really draw that much power.  Get yourself a Kill A Watt and measure your actual utilization.

[Johnseye]

15 minutes ago, Advieira said:

First I thank you guys for the informations. But some things have changed after so many informations in the meantime.

Some audiophiles (like Hans Beekhuyzen) claims the way SMS-200Ultra works (as Roon Endpoint) makes it unaffected by the quality of any Roon Core (server). And it really seems reasonable argument as the ultra (as endpoint) is not a filter but actually the renderer or " the thing that make sound", in the words of roonlabs website. On the other hand, they told cables and lan isolator before the SMS-200ultra can bring improvements.

 

I really would like to know how modify my macmini and sms200ultra to connect the clocks to ethernet and cpu mobo. I think this is the best advice on this topic. But I don´t. 

 

And I dont think a NUC a big improvement over a mac mini, based on the statements above.

 

If instead abandoning my mac mini I use my actual budget (1.5k) to improve the chain between my Router to Vega? What would be the best move?

 

Today:

tp-link router>BJC Cat6>macmini thunderbolt port (not bridged, but internet shared)>macmini ethernet port>Qed Performance Ethernet Graffite>SMS-200Ultra>Audioquest Carbon>Vega

 

 

 

1. Has Hans Beekhuyzen ever modified or listened to a modified Roon Core server or is he just guessing?
2. You have at least 3 or 4 people in this forum who've heard it both ways and will tell you that improving the devices before the endpoint can improve the sound quality.
3. "The thing that makes the sound" is the speakers.  Prior to that it's an amplified electric analog signal.  Prior to that it may go through some sound characteristic changes in a preamp.  Prior to that it gets converted from digital packets to an electric analog signal in the DAC.  Prior to that at the endpoint ethernet packets are getting converted to USB and the Roon endpoint is making sure it happens, but it's not converting them to analog.  Prior to that Roon Core is decoding the file to PCM or DSD, applying DSP settings such as upsampling or making timing changes.  Anyone telling you the sound quality is unaffected by the Core server is wrong.
4. All the endpoint does is provide a device other than the Core server to hand off the data stream to the DAC.  The reason it's a filter with an sMS-200ultra is that it can take ethernet in.  Otherwise there isn't much of a difference between it and the tX-USBultra.
5. A NUC will only be a big improvement over your mac mini if you improve its power or its clocks.
6. If you can provide your mac mini and sMS-200ultra with a good clean power source you will get the best improvement.

[Johnseye]

33 minutes ago, austinpop said:

 

to understand that the switch appears to impact SQ favorably due to the clock mod. The switch is there only for this reason, not for switching purposes.

 

In this situation I would recommend not using a switch.  If there is an opportunity to not use a piece of hardware with potential noise characteristics then I personally prefer not to introduce that device.  This is a personal choice and decision.  Others may differ, but in my opinion adding a functionally unnecessary device is used to modify the sound signature through noise shaping.  For better or worse is up to the listener to decide.

[Johnseye]

27 minutes ago, hurka said:

Sms 200 ultra can upsampling 385 kHz?Not the Pc!

Thanks!!

 

Whether it's Roon pr HQplayer, it's the PC that does the upsampling.