SMPS and grounding

[agladstone]

I’m going to attempt to build a few of these DC grounding devices. 

My question is this (which was briefly mentioned previously but not detailed), I have about 6 SMPS devices (all on a separate AC circuit than all of my other audio equipment) and they’re all plugged into the same Furman PST-8 AC strip. 

I only have 2 remaining open plugs on the strip. 

If I where to build one or two of these with 3-6 Green wires coming out from the ground of a DIY plug, would it be okay to have that one plug provide the ground for anywhere between 3-6 SMPS devices (since I don’t have space for more than 1or 2 of these plugs on my power strip)? 

Also, if I followed this thread carefully enough, it seems like for my LPS-1 that powers my ISO Regen, I would want to have the ground wire going to the DC input of the ISO-Regen and NOT the DC input of the LPS-1, is this correct? 

Also, If I’m clear, in addition to one going to input of ISO-Regen, another ground wire should also go into the input of the LPS-1 from the meanwell SMPS that is powering the LPS-1? 

Thanks in advance for helping me with this prior to me starting to build these little devices:) 

[agladstone]

12 hours ago, Superdad said:

 

With the present topic, no, you would just ground the DC of the supply that you have feeding your LPS-1.

 

 

Grounding of the ISO REGEN (its DC input jack is already and always common to its USB 'A' output shell and consequently your DAC's USB input ground) is only necessary in cases where you experience ticks or disconnects (caused by EMI charge build up with the Silanna chip having no place to "drain" to).  Otherwise, doing that is not advised--and there is even a change you will introduce a ground loop (though it should be harmless since on that, the downstream side of the isolation,  only the ISO REGEN and your DAC-onward are involved; upstream, computer-side is of course isolated).

 

Hope that all makes sense.  Experiment and do what sounds good.

 

--Alex C.

Thanks for helping to clarify!! Now I’m clear, and will give this experiment a try:) 

[agladstone]

A couple additional questions as I get ready to order supplies to make some of the AMPS grounding devices:

1. What gauge ground wire should I use? 

I plan on trying to have several ground wires connected per plug at once (creating multiple leads out to multiple SMPS’s), so I want it to be as thin as possible, but large enough to be sufficient. (Most of my DC cables are 20AWG) 

 

2. Does the wire cover actually have to be Green? 

 

3. Another idea I’ve had was that I could also make a similar DIY device and have the ground wire go to the RG6 splitter for my Cable Box and Cable Modem? Would this work and would provide any benefit? 

[agladstone]

7 minutes ago, ElviaCaprice said:

After further listening, plugging in the ground plug and unplugging, my observations are that on my system this DIY grounding has no noticeable effect.

I wonder if your results would be different if you had the ground leads from the plug going into the screw on DC plugs negative as John Swenson had detailed as opposed to using spade lugs? I’m assuming that you have these spade lugs going to a screw on the chassis? 

It’s possible that they’re not as effective or the same as going to the negative of a DC connector? I’ve tried to ground the RCA cable going from my Pre-Amp to my subwoofer in the past using Spade Lugs to metal chassis with no results and later concluded that since the metal chassis and screws were painted, that it’s very possible the paint was blocking the ground connection? 

[agladstone]

On 10/31/2017 at 8:28 PM, JohnSwenson said:

The GS105V2 is old enough that I can't make a guess as to whether it will block external leakage when grounded. I have tested current and previous FS and current GS, these have the proper behavior.

 

That is not enough of a sample to guess well on significantly older versions. I have seen radically different behavior between two versions from other companies, this makes me leery about common behavior between a V5 and a V2.

 

John S.

Hi, so I’m just digging out a bunch of my unused gear and I have a GS108E V2 (the managed “E” version) and a GS105 V2 and a GS105 V4. 

Seems like from this thread that I should only trust the GS105 V4 and the two older V2’s (108E and 105), I should not use ?? 

Also, If I’m understanding this correctly, if I shunt and use that one V4 that I do have and connect only the BJC Cat 6a to my Aurender N100H, I would be okay anyhow? 

I do also have an Amazon Firebox that has LAN cable that is connected into my Pre/Pro. 

Would it be okay to also connect the Amazin Firebox into that one V4 or shall I dedicate one to only the Aurender and buy another newer V 4/5 for all my other devices? 

As of now, only the Aurender and the Amazon Firebox are both connected to my audio system that also have a LAN cable. However, I recently purchased a Synology NAS and may soon start using that to play albums stored on it via the Aurender N100H also, so should I also connect the Synology NAS to the shunted GS105 V4? 

Thanks ! 

[agladstone]

Will this SMPS grounding have any benefit to grounding the DC input (cable) from a linear power supply (HDPlex) going into a Mytek Brooklyn DAC? 

Mom assuming since it’s being fed by a LPSU and not a SMPS the answer is no? 

Would there be any benefit in using a screw RCA plug going into an unused rca terminal on the Brooklyn DAC or is it internally grounded already? 

[agladstone]

10 hours ago, Cornan said:

 

Brooklyn DACs internal SMPS is already grounded, so no point (confirmed by Mytek). LPS (or floating SMPS) is probably only beneficial to ground if used to power router or network switch. JSGT is always worth trying, but will reduce SQ on the wrong spots IME.

Thanks @Cornan !! I bought all the supplies and I’m ready to start making some of these JSGT’s this afternoon! 

I plan to use on my router, my switch, and my cable modem for starters  

i was also planning on making them for the Meanwell SMPS going to my LPS-1 (which is currently powering my IFI Micro iUSB 3.0) and also for my ISO-Regen which is currently being powered by an IFI 9V iPower. 

(I plan to get a second LPS-1 for the ISO-Regen soon, but for now I’m using the IFI iPower and the ISO-Regen is then feeding my IFI Micro iUSB 3.0 (which is powered by the LPS-1) and then the Micro iUSB is feeding my Brooklyn DAC. 

Do you think the JSGT will also be helpful for the ISO-Regen and the meanwell powering the LPS-1? 

I did try using a Y DC cable out of LPS-1 and split to power both the ISO-Regen and the IFI Micro iUSB 3.0 , but it seemed like everything was getting too hot and I don’t think the LPS-1 has enough amps to power both at same time??

last, I was also thinking of trying JSGT on the DC in for my Cable Set top box and my Amazon TV Firebox , would that be a good idea or not?! 

Thanks !  

[agladstone]

18 hours ago, sandyk said:

 

Although it uses a 3 pin mains socket, and is SMPS powered normally, doesn't necessarily mean it is grounded internally.

If using +12V from the HDPlex PSU the AC plug will not normally plugged in, so any internal grounding will be ineffective.

The +12V rail from the HDPlex is floating(IIRC) and being a linear PSU will not normally benefit from being earthed. 

You could however try what you suggested with the other end of the wire going to the metal case of the HDPlex PSU

 

P.S.

 The  12V America Mytek Brooklyn DAC Linear power supply

$393.90

AliExpress.com

Free shipping

appears to be very well made, and may further improve the performance of your DAC over the just average HDPlex PSU.

Thanks! As of now I am using an HDPlex 200w to power the Brooklyn. 

Why do you think the AliExpress LPSU looks better than the HDPlex 200W? Seems like it looks similar to me? I know I need to eventually upgrade the power supply to the Brooklyn but I was thinking the UpTone JS-2 or the Vinnie Rossi DC4EVER would be two good choices?? 

[agladstone]

On 12/29/2017 at 3:38 PM, Cornan said:

 

You're welcome agladstone! ?

Awesome! ? JSGT is definately an improvement on routers, network switches, cable modems, cable set top boxes and Amazon TV Fireboxes with all types of PSUs. It is right up the JSGTs alley so to speak! ?

Streamers not included though, which I assume is because they are usually already dealing with the problem inside the box.

It also depends on the nature of the LPS/SMPS powering other than network devices. If the LPS/SMPS is floating I would say it is not neccessary to add JSGT. It will probably only make it worse. If the LPS/SMPS is not Floating there might be a possibility that it will improve things, but there is no guarantee (other than with network devices which gives an instant improvement with JSGT IME).

As an example I have my ISO Regen powered by a floating SMPS. Adding a JSGT on the floating SMPS reduces the SQ quite a lot. Much better without JSGT.

 

I hope that helps! ?

 

So far I’ve made the JSGT for my Router and my Netgear GS105 switch (the switch has router in on 1 and on 5 going out to my Aurender N100). 

I need to get a larger power strip to fit more plugs and then I will also do JSGT for my Cable Modem, Cable TV set top box, and my Amazon Fire TV. 

Im still not sure if people recommended also doing JSGT for the DC in to the LPS-1 power supply? (I have the LPS-1 being powered by 12V out of HDPlex 100W at the moment). 

After I added the JSGT to the Netgear Switch and my Netgear Router, I played Tidal MQA streams and also a bunch of DSD and FLAC files stored locally in my Aurender, and I think this is the best my system has ever sounded!! 

I cant wait to add JSGT to the rest of my SMPS powered equipment! 

FYI, for my Negear GS105 switch I made the JSGT using a 12V IFI iPower and I just cut the molded DC plug off and used a screw terminal

with JSGT Ground wire and negative from IFI iPower into negative and positive into positive in the screw terminal DC plug. 

A few pics of my hack work included   

[agladstone]

1 hour ago, Cornan said:

 

Looking great agladstone! Good work and I am happy you got a nice SQ jump as well! ?

JSGT with LPS-1 is a bit of a gamble. Some people have reported improvement and some have not. I think it all comes down to which device the LPS-1 is powering. I would say it is surely worth it if it is used to power network devices. Otherwise probably an equal chance to make it worse since the feeder supply is a linear power supply.

I think I will take your advice and only use the JSGT on all of my network devices and also on cable set top box and Amazon TV Box. 

[agladstone]

On 12/31/2017 at 10:06 AM, charlesphoto said:

I have a JSGT on my HDPLEX 100 powering my LPS-1 with the 12v rail and i think it makes a difference. 

 

15 hours ago, Superdad said:

 

It varies. Sometimes the fixed outputs, sometimes the variable, and often failure of the HDPlex in the process.  And the LPS-1 is not always the only item damaged.

Since virtually all the support we provide is via e-mail (though I enjoy phone calls as a break  and such are often more productive than e-mail), I have documentation of all this--plus the returned boards with burnt parts.

 

It is not my intention to be negative about the value-oriented HDPlex units--and I understand that Larry Liu provides excellent support to his customers.

I just felt the need to point out that we can not warrant the LPS-1 against damage by excessive voltage from 3rd-party supplies--and for whatever reason an HDPlex was involved in 7 of the 10 failures we have seen.

 

If you have further questions about this matter, please write to me.

So as an FYI, I currently have 2 HDPlex 100W’s and I actually just ordered a new HDPlex 200W that will arrive tomorrow. 

Larry told me that the older HDPlex 100w’s do not have OVP/OCC and that the new HDPlex 200W now does (plus an EMI /RF filter). 

I cuirently have my LPS-1 being powered by an older HDPlex 100W at 12V, after reading this, I think I will immediately revert back to using the Meanwell SMPS with a JSGT!! 

I have the other HDPlex 100W powering my Brooklyn DAC, so after reading this I’m anxious to get the new improved HDPlex 200W tomorrow since I don’t want to fry anything with these older HDPlex 100W’s! 

I’m planning on using the two old HDPlex 100w’s on my Modem, Router, and Netgear GS105 Switch. 

Do you think the smartest move would be to just replace the 2 HDPlex 100W’s completely and. It even risk using them on my network equipment? 

I never realized that they did not have OVP/OCC! Thankfully Larry informed me of this last week when I ordered the new HDPlex 200W. 

Oddly his advice to me was to sell them and NOT use them!  Seems like they’re actually unsafe per this information about the fried boards in the LPS-1! 

I guess I better start putting a JS-2 fund together fast for my DAC!  

[agladstone]

40 minutes ago, octaviars said:

Modded my Netgear GS108 today, easy to connect ground to the -0V inside the switch. From the threaded insert a ground cable will go to the outlet feeding my PSU that supplies the 12Vdc to the switch.

 

 

Looks good! I need to teach myself how to solder already! No question that is a better way to do this DC grounding! 

[agladstone]

10 minutes ago, octaviars said:

 

Well I thougt this was a nicer looking way of doing it and no need to use a bunch of 5.5/2.1 adapters to connect a ground to the -0V. Now my Ghent cable with Oyaide DC plug can go directly in to the switch. 

My thoughts exactly! I have all these nice Ghent cables I’ve ordered with the Canare 4s6 and Oyiade plugs and now I have a bunch of cheap screw on DC plugs (female and male) that I’ve wired and screwed together myself and I keep thinking I’m negating the benefits of the oyiade plugs 

[agladstone]

29 minutes ago, sandyk said:

 

Perhaps all recent models do now after some expensive exercises for HDPlex?

 For example, where with a 300W HDPlex (IIRC) of a friend, it  had a failure that destroyed an expensive USB card. 

They sent back a replacement module with overvoltage and over current protection.

The original did NOT have protection, or it would not have failed so spectacularly with FULL rectified voltage at it's output !

I have already mentioned the heavy load on the variable outlet, where the heat dissipation  would be very high when adjusted down to close to 5V . However, the Current limitation at lower voltages should have been made very clear to purchasers in the supplied manual.

The new 200W has protection, the original 100W models did not! 

I just got a HDPlex 200W today and I opened it up, it looks like an entirely different power supply (for the better) on the inside! 

Ive decided for the two 100W’s I have that I will only use the lower XLR connections and not the two top GL-2 ones where the variable is located. 

I also just disconnected the the variable switch from the board too just to be safe (it was connected to Board via a connected plug, I just unplugged it, hopefully I’m correct in thinking this will be fine to use without it attached and perhaps potentially safer ?? )

[agladstone]

1 hour ago, Superdad said:

Gentlemen:

While I know it was me who mentioned concern--about using HDPLEX units to charge LPS-1s--I now ask that discussion of HDPLEX power supplies be taken to a thread not located in the UpTone Audio sponsored forum area.  

I simply do not feel it is polite to the good folks at HDPLEX for such discussion to take place in our forum.

Thanks,

--Alex C.

Agreed! It should be in a new thread dedicated to discussion. 

[agladstone]

All:

I have been making these ground JSGT devices and I have all Ghent Canare / Oyiade DC cables now. With these JSGT contraptions I’m making I’m concerned that all these home made JSGT screw down DC female and male connectors I’m making are taking away from the benefits of using the Carare / Oyiade DC Cables from Ghent?? 

I unscrewed the Oyiade plug and I see a clip that holds the connectors to the wire, is that clip connected to ground? I wonder is there is some way to just connect a ground wire to the actual Oyiade plug itself? If not is there a better way to ground each device like for example what @octaviars did with the Netgear Switch? 

Any thoughts? 

[agladstone]

4 hours ago, octaviars said:

 

No problem 

 

This is how it looks when I got it connected in my cabinet. 

 

 

Ghent Canare 4S6 DC cables and Ghent ET02 ethernetcables. 200W HD Plex feeding 5vdc to ISP fiberconverter, 19vdc to router, 12vdc to GS108 switch (-0V grounded) 19vdc to NUC with Roon ROCK.

Endpoint is a SOtM SMS Ultra (PSU will be a Paul Hynes SR4 when it arrives, lost by UPS since 20th December).

 

That looks great! Very impressed by your labels for each cable too! My entire network and DC Cables / LPSU chain looks like a war zone right now and also with all these home made female male screw down connectors and ground cables flying around everywhere! I am envious of nice and neat yours looks! 

[agladstone]

23 hours ago, R1200CL said:

 

Not better, but easy. Just wrap the 24 awg around the barrel and inject ?

 

 

 

 

Picture ??????

 

 

Yes,  you email Ghent and magic may happen.

 

 

 

 

Thanks ! 

So you are just wrapping the other end of the ground wire around the outside of the dc barrel? Do you have a picture of the cable wrapped around the barrel but not plugged in so I can see exactly how to do it? It seems like a much easier way to do it then the female DC / Male DC screwdown plugs going in and out of the device and then the Ghent dc cables hanging out of them! 

[agladstone]

1 hour ago, R1200CL said:

 

YES

 

 

Yes, very easy. I use a small 24 AWG. Almost anyting will do.

 

 

You're joking, right ?

 

EDIT:

Well anyway I just did this photosession  ONLY for you:

 

Thank you sooo much!! Actually just the last picture would have worked, but your step by step pictures are amazing! Very nice pair of wire strippers you have too! I just have the basic “old fashion” kind and they are such a pain to work with!! I’m going to use your method from now on, much easier and also so much less DYI stuff in the chain!! 

[agladstone]

25 minutes ago, JohnSwenson said:

Actually it is not RF, leakage current is primarily line frequency harmonics (60, 120, 180 etc) which fall directly in the audio range. Standard shielding is hardly effective at all at these frequencies, my shielding techniques radically improve this.

 

Standard audio line interconnects run at a high impedance which make it much easier for this leakage radiation to be picked up. A headphone cable is a MUCH lower impedance system which picks up a lot less of this.

 

Leakage at the DAC itself is much worse because it can modulate the phase noise of the clock, this just doesn't show up as some low frequency noise, it modulates everything coming out of the DAC. So leakage current through the DAC is priority number one, everything else is way down on the hit list.

 

John S.

Is this why DAC’s being powered by an ultra capacitor power supply (like an LPS-1.2 or Vinni Rossi Mini Pure DC4Ever, etc) with the USB input going through an ISO-Regen also powered by an LPS-1.2 sound so good? (Due to much less likelihood of AC Line Leakage Current)?