Kii Three - my impressions and pro reviews

[ntpaledo]

Hello everyone, I'm a new member of this forum and new to the audiophile world in general. I'm still learning about different components, system configurations and optimal setups. I currently have a Dali loudspeaker system (Opticon 6) and I'm very happy with the overall sound. But I listened to the Kii 3s and I was blown away by the music clarity and the soundstage. I ordered my pair of Kii3s and I'm expecting it end of February so I'm very excited! Original delivery date was going to be mid January but Covid restrictions in Germany has pushed back delivery date to end of February. (ordered mid December).

 

My question is around source device. I currently have the Cambridge Audio CXN V2 and very happy with the overall experience. Stream magic app is horsesh!t and still no support for Tidal Connect but it's overall a better experience than what I used to have. My question is compatibility of the Cambridge Audio CXN V2 and the Kii 3s. The CXN V2 has pre-amp and integrated DAC but my understanding is the Kii3s have far superior components already integrated so I was going to connect the CXN V2 to the Kii Control through a S/P DIF Coaxial cable, bypassing the CXN V2's pre-amp and DAC. I understand this is not ideal and I could have gone with a dedicated streaming source, without DAC and preamp which creates unnecessary noise/features/cost but my question is, what am I sacrificing by keeping this streamer and not going with another higher end solution? How much better would sound be with a different, dedicated, more high end streamer and is it worth the cost of upgrade? Also, the CXN V2 does not support MQA playback from the Masters quality of Tidal. How much of a difference will this make?

 

Thank you everyone in advance

[ntpaledo]

12 hours ago, Rubysea said:

Well, I suppose your Cambridge stereamer's basic design is that of many streamers that I assume most of the Kii users here use.
A steamer usually has a DAC and analogue section. What you are refering to is a pure network transport, that can only output/forward the audio digitally. I would assume that the majority of the users here in this (Kii-) forum don't use a transport but a "normal" Streamer (but I might be wrong).
Mine is basically the same construction and I use it the way you described: I use the digital coax out and don't care about the streamer's dac and analogue section.
The Kii's will resample the incoming signal anyway to a sample rate of 93.75 khz independent of the sample rate fed to it.
Besides you have the freedom of choice to evaluate any other streamer/transport and compare it to your cambridge and decide for yourself if another steramer/transport sounds better with the Kiis than your current one...

 

Thank you @Rubysea! This is very reassuring to know

 

8 hours ago, firedog said:

There's nothing wrong with what you are thinking of doing. It should work fine. I'd suggest you try it for a while and see if you are happy with it.

If you decide you want a dedicated, specialized device just for feeding digital from the network to your Kii Control, there are endless options. Anything from a $50 Raspberry Pi (which works fine) to a 5K hi-end network bridge - and everything in between. 
 

It's not clear a dedicated streamer will sound superior. And you might need to spend really serious money to get something that is noticeably better. Again, try what you've got to see how happy you are. 

You say you are unhappy wit your units streaming app. Adding new playback/control software that is much more user friendly would be a  good reason to move on to a dedicated streamer that gives you that ability. That alone makes you listening more pleasuraeble.

 

With the Kii Control you can also go direct USB from your server if it is close by. Works very well. The Kii has a very good USB input.

 

As far as MQA, I wouldn't call it critical. I'd find units that fit my needs for other reasons, and then if one has MQA, maybe that's a factor in deciding which one to buy. BTW, you can get a free trial of software like Roon or Audirvana that will enable you to play the "first unfold" of  MQA. Listen and see what you think. If that doesn't do a lot for you, then there's probably no reason to care if you have MQA equipped HW or not. Note: many MQA albums play louder than non MQA counterparts, and that fools you into thinking that the MQA is better. Volume matching is important.

 

Thank you for your reply @firedog. Why wouldn't a dedicated higher end streamer sound superior than an integrated streamer with multiple components and cheaper construction cost? I'm new to this world so don't know how all the details and I'm purely going off perception.

 

7 hours ago, Rubysea said:

...Another option could be just to wait a little while, if you could do so and are not in an utmost hurry...

I'm fairly confident that probably by the end of the year you might be able to also think about putting a "Kii streamer" on your evaluation list ;-)

 

What do you mean Kii Streamer?? Is Kii Audio releasing their own streamer???

 

7 hours ago, Mazza said:

@ntpaledo I have to agree with firedog; if you have opportunity to also get the Kii control it offers a whole level of connect ability options..

 

for example, I auditioned my Kii’s using the usb connection from an Astell Kern mobile music player with stunning results; my first perm set up with was a NAs streamer [ditto] before switching to my dedicated DAC-free HD streamer.. I have personally found the usb connection to be as good if not better than the other options, so no compromise on quality

 

definitely recommend the Kii control if you can stretch to it .... even offers Bluetooth streaming [yeuk!] which keeps the kids happy

 

Hi @Mazza, the system I bought already comes pre bundled with the Kii Control. There is no option currently to buy the speakers without the Kii Control. The shop told me that Kii Audio recommends USB connectivity as the preferred method of connecting your sources.

 

On a different note, I also have a turntable (entry level Rega Planar P1) which is currently connected to my AVR which has an integrated Phono Stage. The volume output from that connection is lackluster compared to streaming options so I was thinking of connecting the turntable directly to the Kii Control. Kii Audio's websites recommends: Turntable -> PHONO Preamp with internal A/D Converter -> AES/SPDIF/Toslink Output to the master Kii THREE (BXT) or Kii Control  as the ideal connection

 

Has anyone here connected their turntable to the Kii Control? Any recommendations for a good value for money Phono Preamp with an internal A/D Converter and an AES/SPDIF/Toslink Output connection and is it worth the money?

 

[ntpaledo]

 

44 minutes ago, Rubysea said:

Regarding Turntable connection to the Kii: I previously had the turntable pre-amp directly connected to each Kii (XLR input set to analog). This would require only one AD conversion. However, you might need some pretty long cables that might also reqire mixed plugs (XLR, cinch) depending on your pre-amp out. This was the case for me. 4m cables with different plugs. But this worked well.
Now the pre-amp is connected to a minidsp SHD who does the AD conversion (and room correction) and the signal is digitally fed to the Kii Control. I haven't noticed much of a difference to write about, but the turntable isn't my main music source anyway. Besides, the minidsp and the Kii to my knowledge use the same brand of AD (and DA) converters (AKM Asahi Kasei Microdevices)

 

The rumour for a Kii streamer has been around for some time, but apparently by the end of this year we should be wiser this time. It very likely also will not be based on a propietary SW streaming solution :-)

But time will tell...Covid and a relocation of Kii to Germany mid year (so I have heard) might counteract that schedule...

 

Thank you Rubysea. Hmmm that makes me think, is it something I can do through the Cambridge Audio CXN V2? (connect a phono preamp to it and then feed that signal digitally to the Kii Control) This is what the back of the streamer looks like.

 

I'm not in a rush and I can definitely wait for what Kii has to offer! Would be one of the better options since the same company that designed the speakers will design the input source. I really like (and I don't know how controversial this is in the audiophile world) the newly designed streamers with a nice big screen that displays artwork and gives you a nice visual representation of menus/options and your music. I was looking at the NAD M10, the Naim Uniti Atom, the Aurender N20 and the Auralic Aries. Do you think Kii Audio is thinking along those lines or a completely different form factor?

 

Thank you everyone for the prompt replies and your insightful comments

[ntpaledo]

UPDATE: I just called Kii directly. They confirmed that there is a backlog and that the speakers are currently in production. They should be finished in a week, then go to production testing which lasts another week, then will ship them. They have to work under unprecedented circumstances and production time has gone back. They were estimating they would be out of it by now, but unfortunately, there is still backlog. I had a great conversation with them and I can empathise. Now I have to deal with the incompetent merchant who doesn't know how to follow up. Hopefully I will have the speakers in 2-3 weeks. Will post again then

 

Hi everyone, following up on this topic, mainly to vent. I've had an abysmal experience with the shop I bought the speakers from. On the 15th December 2020 I ordered the Kii 3 in glossy white along with a Digital RCA SPDIF cable. The store advised me that delivery time will be six weeks. That meant that by the end of January I would receive the speakers. Time passed by and I received no communication from the store. On January 15th I called again and the team informed me I would receive the Kiis mid February. Time passed by and I received no further communication from the store. On February 17th I called again and the team informed me they got official confirmation from Kii that the speakers will be part of shipment to my country last week of February or first week of March. Time passed by and I received no communication from the store. On March 2nd I called yet again and the team informed me the speakers will be here by the end of March. When I disputed the date and explained what had happened before, the employee informed me that they would reach out to Kii and they would contact me the next day (today, March 3rd). No one called me today, so I called back at 5pm, before the store closed. The employee told me that someone will call me back because they were currently with a customer. No one called me back. It has been 3 months of false promises, no follow up and terrible customer service. At this point, I am thinking of cancelling my order, because, mainly,  I have no trust that the store can withhold any customer agreement, technical support, after sales service or honour any warranty. The most insane part is that we are talking about a 10k Euros purchase. I have never received such abysmal experience as a consumer and this is the most expensive thing I've ever bought. It's definitely the store's fault for not understanding basic customer service, or even decency, principle, but I'm wondering how much of it is Kii's fault as well. Should I stay away from this manufacturer? Has anyone had any issues with their speakers, did they have to service them / replace them and did they receive bad service? Thank you all in advance for your replies.

[ntpaledo]

Unfortunately, I ordered them from their official distributor in Singapore... There is no one else to go to

[ntpaledo]

Spoke to the distributor. They apologised for the lack of follow up. Manager committed to provide me personal updates. Let's see. Looking forward to receiving the speakers

[ntpaledo]

On 3/4/2021 at 3:16 PM, ntpaledo said:

Spoke to the distributor. They apologised for the lack of follow up. Manager committed to provide me personal updates. Let's see. Looking forward to receiving the speakers

 

Alright, after 4 months of waiting, speakers have finally arrived. First impressions are very impressive and I'm looking forward to spending more time with the speakers to break them in and fine tune the sound output. My setup is quite unique, as I'm trying to get the both of both worlds and connect the Kiis as a L + R speaker in a 3.1 home cinema setup but also take advantage of all integrated amps and DACs in the Kiis as a dedicated stereo listening pair for music.

 

My setup:

 

Denon AVR-X3700H Amplifier

Dali Opticon 6 L + R speakers

Dali Oberon Center speaker

KEF Sub

Rega Planar P1 Turntable

LG GX TV

Cambridge Audio CX VN2 Audio Streamer

 

My NEW setup

 

Replaced Dali Opticon 6 L + R Speakers with Kii 3s and connected them via pre-out

 

 

Connected an XLR adapter to connect to the back of the Kiis

 

 

After calibrating sound levels between center speaker and Kiis and home cinema, the output works great. We had to increase the level for the Kiis all the way up to 10 and reduce center speaker output to -2 in order to calibrate the volume from all speakers when paired in a home cinema setup. I ended up removing the sub all together from my setup and instead, used the full range of the Kiis. So far, great results with nice crisp dialogue and an "integrated sub" experience right in the L + R speakers. 

 

 

For music, I connected the streamer directly to the Kii Control via a Coax cable, bypassing the streamer's DAC and instead using all of Kiis integrated magic. Sound imaging is second to none, feels like you're in a concert front row. My only gripe is the fact that I used to able to control everything via 1 remote, now the volume for music when playing through the streamer has to be controlled either by the Kii control or a separate remote control.

 

Look gorgeous in the space and accidentally matches the ps5 as well.

 

 

 

[ntpaledo]

Question for other members:

 

My left speaker (which is also the Master in the interspeaker connection) only has 1 light on (green) when the speakers are on, in comparison the right speaker (which is the Slave in the interspeaker connection) which has 2 lights on (green and blue). Is this expected behavior?

 

 

[ntpaledo]

Seller said they contacted Kii and Kii is sending them a replacement LED module for them to install on my speakers. The weird thing is when the speakers are off, both lights light up red, so I know there's power going through the LED module. I noted that to the seller and they said it's weird behavior and that they would replace the LED module and see what's going on. This will happen in 2 weeks. Will keep you posted

[ntpaledo]

On 5/7/2021 at 11:07 AM, ntpaledo said:

Seller said they contacted Kii and Kii is sending them a replacement LED module for them to install on my speakers. The weird thing is when the speakers are off, both lights light up red, so I know there's power going through the LED module. I noted that to the seller and they said it's weird behavior and that they would replace the LED module and see what's going on. This will happen in 2 weeks. Will keep you posted

 

Update, 6! months later the replacement LED panel arrived and the technicians came over today to replace the module. Very interesting process, didn't know the inside of the Kii looked like this. All is working fine now