Schiit EITR

[Abtr]

On 3/9/2019 at 10:16 PM, Charente said:

 

I have recently acquired a FLINT and will be trying out the EITR as well for DDC duties ... might be an idea to buy an additional EITR before they become unavailable !

I got an additional Eitr just in case  and I might order a third (it's that good in my system), though Schiit's threat to stop production may just be a way to boost sales..

[Abtr]

On 3/31/2019 at 8:32 AM, Charente said:

...

In case the EITR does get dropped, I've tried an alternative DDC (which I already owned before EITR), the Armature HECATE (by Audiophonics), also 5v injected from the LPS-1 ... and it needs this. The HECATE is also good... little or no difference to my ears ... and virtually the same price over here.

 

I tried the Armature Hecate: https://www.audiophonics.fr/en/digital-interfaces/armature-hecate-xmos-xcore-208-usb-spdif-asynchronous-interface-p-11412.html

 

Interesting experiment. I must say that the Hecate sounds very good relative to the three other USB to S/PDIF converters I own (Wyred4Sound Remedy, Mutec MC-1.2, Audio-GD DI). But, to my ears and in my system, the Hecate isn't quite as good as Eitr. Compared to Eitr  the Hecate sounds slightly less natural and less detailed and becomes a bit fatiguing after a while; even with clean 5V injection from LPS-1 (which makes a difference).

 

The architecture of the Hecate board appears to be very similar to the Intona USB to USB galvanic isolator. The Intona benefits most from 5V injection at its output which indicates that the USB input interface itself generates 5V noise which defeats the (inductive) galvanic isolation. With the Hecate USB to S/PDIF converter this noise may 'leak' through the coaxial output into the DAC circuitry.

I think the superior SQ of the Eitr is the result of galvanic isolation of the (USB powered) input interface plus providing separate regulated linear power for the S/PDIF output circuit.

 

BTW, I don't quite understand how Eitr benefits from clean 5V injection at its input, but it does in my system. If it is an audible jitter issue then it should be measurable.. 

[Abtr]

5 hours ago, amolan said:

Hi Guys,

 

I´m not really following this discussion, but are you using another 5v ac power instead the original one ? is it improve EITR sound ? Can you give some more details about it ?

 

Thanks in advance,

 

Alexandre .

It's not about Eitr's 6V AC power supply but about replacing the 5V DC USB power at its input with clean 5V DC power (from an LPS-1). For 5V injection you can use an adapter like this one:

https://www.audiophonics.fr/en/various-adapters/usb-b-adapter-cable-for-55-21mm-female-power-supply-p-8332.html

 

I hope this helps.

[Abtr]

21 hours ago, Charente said:

...

However, I am getting an occasional fleeting low-level glitch, which I didn't have before, and at this stage I'm not sure of the cause. Any pointers would be appreciated.

I only know dropouts. Can you explain what you mean with a fleeting low-level glitch?

[Abtr]

21 hours ago, Charente said:

 

Difficult to describe .... a brief soft skip every so often ... but not like a dropout that I experienced before, which is quite jarring by comparison.

 

Having gone thru a process of elimination, It seems this may have something to do with SonarWorks True-Fi  that I use between the Audirvana player and the EITR (my ageing ears appreciate the headphone frequency response correction !). Strangely, I can't hear it with the HECATE DDC + LPS-1.

 

Possibly something to do with clipping if the True-Fi output level is too high ... might the EITR be more susceptible to that ? The DAC ? Dunno.

 

I'll do some further listening and swap-outs.

 

The only thing I can think of are USB CRC errors, to which Eitr may have less tolerance than the Hecate. Then there must be a level of CRC errors per second that doesn't result in a dropout but just a 'fleeting glitch' in Eitr and no audible problem in the Hecate (Singxer-F1). Don't know if that's even possible.. 

[Abtr]

Eitr is currently marked as backordered at Schiit.com, ships 6-26. So it seems they're still producing it.

[Abtr]

Strange.. You still can order the 230V EU version on the Schiit website.

[Abtr]

A few weeks ago I ordered another Eitr from the Schiit website for a friend. I didn't receive a shipping notice at 6-26 so I asked if there is a further delay. I got this response from Schiit: "Unfortunately, we did not receive the necessary parts to resume production of the Eitr. We are estimating several more weeks before we are able to resume production." So production of the Eitr will be resumed.

[Abtr]

35 minutes ago, Charente said:

Just caught this comment from Jason Stoddard on another place ...

 

quote: "Yep, I think we have one more run of Eitr on deck, then it's gone. Eitr and Wyrd are both done when the stocks run out--USB has gotten so much better that there's not much use for these devices anymore."

 

So, there we have it ... "USB has gotten so much better" ...  I'm not sure I agree with that statement. How so ?

 

Indeed, how so? Having one more run of Eitr means Eitr does sell. And if USB has gotten so much better, then why do devices such as Eitr sell? And "not much use" means there's still use.

[Abtr]

Just received my (third) EITR, which I ordered 2 months ago.  I currently use the very nice RME ADI-2 DAC. The ADI-2 is a modern DAC with glowing reviews and its proprietary USB implementation is supposed to be among the best. But for audio streaming, EITR to S/PDIF subjectively sounds better than ADI-2's own USB input. Moreover, I did blind listening tests a few weeks ago and with the EITR I correctly identified the output polarity of the ADI-2 (which can be switched for both channels simultaneously with the programmable remote control) in 15 out of 15 tests; a 1 in 32768 chance! I couldn't replicate this result using the ADI-2's USB input (8 correct guesses in 15 tests). IMO and in my system the higher level of distortion of the ADI-2 USB interface made it impossible to hear the difference. (BTW, I prefer the ADI-2's inverted output polarity, and I will ask RME about this because inverting output polarity, which is done in the digital domain, really shouldn't produce an audible difference.)

 

Anyhow, I think Jason Stoddard's assertion that "USB has gotten so much better that there's not much use for these devices [EITR] anymore", is not true. At least it's not compatible with my personal experience with EITR in my system. Indeed, SHIIT may see EITR as some kind of threat to their new UNISON technology.

[Abtr]

19 hours ago, Superdad said:

What makes you say that?  I have always been able to hear an audible difference inverting absolute polarity. It is not a huge difference, but once the ear is trained for it it is not hard.  And from you above report, it would seem your ears agree. 

 

The difference is not subtle and not restricted to bass below 30Hz, in which range some claim to hear a slight difference as a result of polarity inversion. I hear differences in bass, mid, and high range, with music that doesn't contain frequencies below 40Hz.

[Abtr]

16 hours ago, jcn3 said:

we'll have to disagree for the moment on whether unison is just marketing hype -- i can't see schiit bothering with developing unison unless they think they can bring something more/better to the table, otherwise where is the ROI?

 

Not necessarily hype, but why discontinue a very good USB 'decrapifier' just before UNISON hits the market? SCHIIT says EITR doesn't sell but I can't really believe that..

[Abtr]

34 minutes ago, Charente said:

EITR back in stock at Schiit Europe (Netherlands) ... ordered ! Might one of the last ones available ... as Jason Stoddard said, this is the last production run.

Did he actually say it is the last production run? Can you provide a link? If so, I'll buy some more.

[Abtr]

19 hours ago, Charente said:

PM sent 

JS said (7-15-2019) "I think we have one more run of Eitr on deck, then it's gone." I'm not sure what the "I think" clause refers to. 

 

Perhaps production and stocking of EITRs cost SHIIT more money than they earn from selling them. I can't think of any other economical reason to stop production. EITR must be selling really slow..  
 

[Abtr]

26 minutes ago, Ralf11 said:

I can.  It might sell well and make money, but a small co. might want to focus limited engineering or sales/production resources elsewhere.

Really? Engineering has already been done it's just production and sales cost. Shiit could simply employ some extra personnel and maybe raise the price of EITR a bit. Or do you think they want to stay a small co.? 

[Abtr]

SHIIT could even license another co. to produce EITR and still gain from it, but no, production will be stopped completely because according to JS "USB has gotten so much better that there's not much use for these devices anymore." What argument is that? If EITR sells, then apparently there's use for it.   

[Abtr]

4 minutes ago, Ralf11 said:

They are anti-snake oil.

Take a look at JS's statements. He didn't exactly say EITR is snake oil.

[Abtr]

9 minutes ago, Ralf11 said:

The pronoun refers to the Schiit

You lost me there.

[Abtr]

27 minutes ago, Charente said:

There is possibly another reason ... with UNISON coming out in their DAC products ... and in the absence of an EITR-UNISON,  there is a greater 'encouragement ' for people to invest in the newer DACs rather than upgrade them via an EITR. It would drive greater sales of the more lucrative items in their product line. I'm not saying that's wrong ... it makes good business sense and funds future R&D/Engineering costs.

I don't think the technology of EITR is patented and the basic formula is simple: galvanically isolate input and output and use a separate power supply for the USB input, and S/PDIF output circuitry. If this elevates any DAC performance to UNISON performance levels, then I'm sure some co. will reverse engineer and produce it if SCHIIT stops producing EITR. We'll see..

[Abtr]

On 10/27/2019 at 4:32 AM, davide256 said:

hmmm. I'm preferring the Eitr USB -AQ Eagle eye coax to the built in Gen5 USB.  The Gungnir built in USB has a softer, smoother sound but string bass tends to bloat.

Using the external Eitr to coax bass stays taut with impact but treble is a little grainier. I can deal with the graininess  but not with bass that doesn't sound right

 

Lately I've been experimenting with some coax to toslink converters to connect Eitr's output to my DAC. These are active devices and I tried four different converters that take 5V DC power, so that I can use a single Uptone LPS-1 to simultaneously power a converter and the USB interface of Eitr. In my system, two of the four converters give an audible improvement over Eitr's coaxial output. One device (Delock DLCK-62790 coax to toslink converter) clearly stands out, with improved bass and no trace of 'graininess'.

 

These results make me wonder what might be going on. Is toslink providing additional isolation of HF noise that may get through the transformer-based galvanic isolation and coaxial output of Eitr, and/or is jitter reduced by superior PLL circuitry of the coax to toslink converter, thus reducing electrically noisy PLL processing inside the DAC?

 

An explanation may also shed light on reports of audible differences between Eitr and an on-board Gen-5 module..
 

[Abtr]

1 hour ago, davide256 said:

One of the reasons I believe the AQ Eagle Eye works better for me than other coax is the DBS voltage biasing, I've done DIY exotic coax cable builds before and can't say that

the materials I see are  in the AQ cable construction are anything special, although to be fair they avoided materials that corrode over time.

 

2 questions

 

1)  when I plug Lush 2 USB cable between NUC and Gumby I can hear an extremely faint electronic computer "chatter" well below music volume.

Using the Eitr eliminates this. I'd like to try displacing the 5v USB to an idle LPS 1.2 I have and see if this changes anything.

Is there a simple way to do this that doesn't void your cable warranty?

 

2) Delock doesn't sell in the US, but iFi markets a product, was it one you tried, if so your thoughts?

 

https://ifi-audio.com/products/spdif-ipurifier/

 

 

I've used Toslink  before, IME it can be quite good if the devices at both ends were manufactured with serious attention to the Toslink

section.

1) I use this:

https://www.audiophonics.fr/en/various-adapters/usb-b-adapter-cable-for-55-21mm-female-power-supply-p-8332.html

I think it ships to the US. You may also be able to build something similar yourself.

 

2) I didn't try the iFi but I might check it out.

 

Apparently, the quality of Toslink implementations is quite variable. I think both the Toslink receiver of my  DAC and the transmitter of the Delock are pretty good. I think the sonic differences between the devices I tested can only be caused by different amounts of jitter. The audibility of this surprised me.  

 

[Abtr]

14 hours ago, davide256 said:

Received the Audiophonics external 5v USB connector, took about a week from France. @Abtr  many thanks, its a keeper. Using an LPS 1.2 as 5v power supply,

GEN 5 bass is cleaned up and deep but more importantly  intermittent irritating edginess has been removed in the treble. Alas, no real improvement using the external Eitr, midrange bleaching still present vs internal GEN 5

Interesting, thanks! Now 3 reports in this thread (from different members with different audio systems) indicate that Schiit Gen 5 USB benefits from clean power.. Not sure why you don't hear an improvement using Eitr. The coaxial s/pdif interface between Eitr and your DAC might have an electrical noise isolation problem. May I suggest you try a decent coax to toslink converter.    

[Abtr]

It seems the 'last production run' of Shiit Eitr sold out in less than a year. At least It dissappeared from the Schiit website.  Apparently Eitr does sell (!), so the reason why Schiit discontinued it remains a mystery.. IMO, most probably Schiit fears Eitr might somehow diminish their proprietary Unison USB DAC sales..  

[Abtr]

23 hours ago, Charente said:

@Abtr ... I imagine what they mean is it does not sell 'well enough' and judging by the serial number movement that might be correct. Your second point is a reasonable one IMO, though Jason S denied that was the case, IIRC.   I also read varying reports on EITR vs Unison... some just saying 'it's different', altho' many seem to agree 'it's better', as @JoeWhip does ... and yes, if you have Unison you wouldn't need EITR. I've not heard it yet myself ... I haven't felt the urge to buy anything new ... quite satisfied with the system I have after spending time and effort getting it right. One day, perhaps, although I have spent some time on a speaker setup recently as an alternative to my headphones only listening before.

 

You're probably right that Eitr doesn't sell well enough for Schiit to continue its production. But I'm quite sure there is a market for a Unison based Eitr, if it's better than the Gen 5 Eitr. I for one would buy it (especially if it had a well implemented Toslink output) and probably many who currently own an Eitr would try it. It might be a good USB solution for non-Schiit DACs.

 

Alas, Schiit doesn't have plans for a Unison Eitr either. This is unfortunate because I suspect many of us are not prepared to buy a Schiit DAC for its Unison USB. At least not me. Like you, I'm basically satisfied with my audio system and I certainly don't feel the need to replace my current DAC.

[Abtr]

On 7/18/2020 at 10:55 PM, davide256 said:

While the Unison upgrade mitigated the Gen5 susceptibility to USB 5v quality, I didn't find it more than a minor improvement when I received the Gumby back.

Have used the Eitr now into a Chord Mojo, much prefer the Mojo's USB DAC input to coax from the Eitr into the Mojo... low bass is better and

DSD is supported.

 

Do you prefer the Mojo via its USB input over the Gumby through its Unison input?