The true experimental tweak thread

[mozes]

Awesome @moussaobeid! [emoji3]

It is the electrician that are crazy. You're good! [emoji6]

A grounding box needs a little experimenting to find out the best spot. I would start with the Nimitra (chassi ground or USB barrel at the output) and continue to the DAC where you should try chassi ground (chassi screw), digital ground (outer barrel of spdif) and analogue ground (outer barrel of RCA). Keep in mind that it will most likely improve further the following 24 hrs where it is connected, but you should clearly hear an immediate improvement on a good spot. Experiment & have fun! [emoji3]

 

A lot of fun stuff coming for you. It will be very exciting to hear what you'll find out! [emoji4]

 

BTW. Great soldering skills. Truly great! [emoji6]

 

Thanks I will follow your advice.

Re the soldering I have a friend who is an electronics technician and he taught me this weekend how to solder and resolder so yes my skills are good now

He told me that he hates soldering DC connectors and that usually this is not a beginner job

 

 

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[mozes]

Wow, you're on roll! Good stuff. As for the dedicated circuits, i did that a long time ago and it is a definite improvement, and i would also say that it doesn't need any 'burn in' time or won't really change over time in other words...it's instant gratification.

 

I think so too but I haven't had a chance to critically listen to my favourite tracks so will post soon on this

 

 

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[mozes]

The chart shows two switches in series?

 

 

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[mozes]

I just plugged the grounding box to the Nimitra chassis and immediately the sound stage expanded outside my speakers. I used to have a wide stage but now it is wider with better clarity only after 1 min. I won't bother with experimenting the best location, this thing works and I will get a second box for the Brooklyn!

 

Thanks @Cornan!

 

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[mozes]

Cool!

 

What grounding box did you get?

I got this one, initially recommended by Cornan

 

Aucharm Audio Grounding Box with Crocodile lip Ground Wire | eBay

[mozes]

Second grounding box is on the way

 

 

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[mozes]

The system now is sounding simply magical!!! The dedicated lines are the best tweak I have ever done with the best return on investment.

My advice if you don't have a dedicated line just try to install one before throwing your cash on anything else. Naim is so fussy about power and grounding and they always recommend a dedicated line and no power conditioning at all, but I think it applies to other brands as well

 

 

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[mozes]

I used to have two rooms in my basement on one circuit breaker where one room is used as a music room. What I have been doing is disconnecting everything in these two rooms that's plugged to the mains. I used to have only my Hifi system connected, all lights are switched off (don't know if they still make noise when they are switched off as they are sill connected). I also thought that this is as good as a dedicated circuit.

Well, after I installed the two dedicated lines, I learned that I was wrong, don't why but probably many reasons, wire was gauge 14, with more than 4 or 5 outlets and light switches all connected to it.

Now I have gauge 10 going directly to the breaker panel.

The improvement is huge nothing comes close, I tried before using an Elgar 2.4KVA isolation transformer as a substitute then I sold it, didn't hear any difference. Now it's the 4th day and the system is sounding better everyday, so maybe burn in or the system is settling, not sure, but I am extremely happy

 

 

Hi Moussa,

 

Any tips or gotchas you've learned with your recent experience installing a dedicated power circuit? Since my setup is headphone only, my total power draw is maybe 100-150W max.

 

In my setup I don't have a "dedicated line" per se, but as it turns out the way my room is wired, I am able to isolate my system to be the only thing active in that circuit. By circuit, I mean controlled by a separate breaker.

 

Isn't this the moral equivalent of a dedicated circuit? Or is there more to it?

 

I did also replace the original outlet with a PSAudio PowerPort outlet too.

[mozes]

Congratulation Moussa! Remember to atleast try one of them on your coming Aqvox switch-8! It will be very interesting to know if it makes the same or similar improvement on a high-end switch

 

BTW. I ordered the IsoAcoustics L8R-130 for my active speakers today. I cannot be bothered to experiment anymore with speaker isolation.

 

Yes I will for sure, Congrats on the stands!

[mozes]

Cornan,can you pls provide a brief using layman's words on how grounding boxes work. I still can't get my head around it but I know now that it works:)

 

 

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[mozes]

In short words the grounding box acts as a little concentraded piece of mother earth. Black tourmaline are actually one of the most common minerals in the world (together with clear quartz) because they are usually mixed in various stones. Green tourmaline are even more effective but are rare and very expensive. The tourmaline stones is negatively charged by nature. It "neutralize" positive charges and the stones will release even more negative ions when it comes in contact with heat (positive charge). Think of hairdryers & straighteners that removes static electricity. They all have tourmaline stones. Depending on construction the grounding box is more or less effective. The construction and materials of the box, the mineral mix, the connectors and the cables are equally important to ensure a low impedance path to ground (ie. the grounding box). A grounding box will drain positive currents (AC/DC currents/noises) away from shieldings and make it into a cleaner and a less capasitively disturbing path. I hope that makes sense!

 

The grounding boxes was actually invented by the Japanease a long time ago. It was originally a way to cure their badly constructed ac mains electrical wiring by providing an improved safety ground. It is not recommended to replace the safety ground with a grounding box though, but it was what is was originally used for.

 

If you wonder why I am almost obsessed of unshielded wires...it is all the grounding boxes fault! They put me in that direction. Lately I actually have used my Entreq Minimus as a kind of "shield-noise-sniffer". If it does´nt make a difference on a spot, there is no shields there left to remove or improve!

 

Very informative @Cornan thanks a lot for the explanation.

 

 

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[mozes]

That's good motivation!

 

Did you have to pull new 10 gauge wire from your panel down to your basement? Sounds disruptive.

 

Yes pulled two wires actually, but the panel is luckily in the basement as well

 

 

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[mozes]

@Cornan have you ever tried grounding the router? If it works on the switch then why not the wireless bridge router or/and the main router? It maybe a stupid idea but this is the right thread to throw thoughts like this

 

 

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[mozes]

I just got reminded how important the galvanic isolation is for network devices. In my low budget setup I installed a TP-Link DAP-1620 wireless AC adapter to get a better reception. I did'nt galvanicly isolate it. Just plugged into another wall outlet 1,5m from my system.

I got my new IsoAcoustic stand for the speakers today and did never listen to music after the installation of the DAP-1620.

Everything sounded aweful, so I played around with the stands since they where my first suspect, new and all. Did'nt help.

Then I realized that the wireless repeater was not tested with music. I simply removed it to hear the effect. Wow! Huge difference! Much much better.

I know one thing. From now on no network device will ever get in my appartment ever again without a proper galvanic isolation from the ac main. Period!

 

Thats my plan as well!

 

 

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[mozes]

Listening to Thomas Dybdahl's brilliant album "The Great Plains"

 

http://tidal.com/album/70814562

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The new stands did make a difference for the better.

 

[ATTACH]33878[/ATTACH]

 

Enjoying myself now when the DAP-1620 is warming up my drawer! [emoji3]

 

The stands look nice and sleek as well

 

 

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[mozes]

Need some help pls.

My wireless bridge is powered by a battery. I have two batteries so one is usually connected and the other one is on the charger.

Everytime I change the battery I lose connection to my Nimitra and I can no longer access Jremote on my iphone or BubbleDS Next on my android tab.

The only way to get the system back online is to go upstairs and reboot the main router which is becoming frustrating. I know it has to do with ip address but don't know to fix it!

 

 

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[mozes]

You'll need to get yourself a power bank for the wireless bridge. A power bank will supply constant power to the bridge. Instead of changing the batteries you pull out the charger lead everytime you listen to music and plug it in everytime you are done. This will ensure a prolonged battery life (since you only use a small part of a complete charge cycle every time), better sound (since the battery is most likely more charged) and constant power feed to the bridge. Choose a power bank with good quality battery cells and with only one USB power output (not 2 or more) for best results. [emoji4]

 

Thanks @Cornan for the quick reply. I am using the standard power banks for mobile phones with two usb outputs. These switch off when the charger is connected. I will look for a good battery as you suggested

 

 

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[mozes]

Great will check it out later tonight and probably order two

 

 

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[mozes]

You're welcome Moussa! 

I can recommend the TP-Link Vivid 6700mAh power bank. I have four of them and they work and sound great. This one is also a great cheap li-ion battery pack https://banggood.app.link/993dnM5WnB (they supply different AC mains plugs for free if you ask them)

 

Both of these do not switch off the power feed when charging.

 

However, there are many others as great out there! 

I just ordered two of https://www.amazon.ca/TP-Link-6700mAh-Portable-Smartphones-TL-PBG6700/dp/B01GJ782FC/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1489120685&sr=8-1&keywords=TL-PBG6700

I wish I knew about it before I bought the other two that I have

[mozes]

I received my BK 1604A and yes it hums a bit but I am lucky it is sitting upstairs in my living room away from my music room. If it is quiet I can hear it from around 2 meters. The good thing is that it made a nice uplift in Tidal streaming

 

@moussaobeid Does your BK 1604A hum a little? Mine is fairly audible from several feet away, but luckily it's an a different room than my audio system, it's still bothers me a little though.

 

Also i used a Kill-O-WAtt meter to test the output with both modem and router connected and the ratings are very small so i don't believe the BK should be overloaded at all. Here's the readings I got (max ratings listed):

 

VA = 53

P.F. = .7

Amps = .43 (not sure this is correct, i may have written it wrong)

Watts = 38

 

I believe the BK 1604A is rated at 150VA

[mozes]

I borrowed a Vbus2 and plugged it between my intona and RUR a couple of days ago. Honestly I couldn't really be sure that there is any effect on my system's sound. Maybe I heard a bit more details with a bit more brightness but I wasn't sure and thought it was my placebo. So I left it plugged in and decided to come back to it later to give it some time to settle. I know that we are always more sensitive to detecting losses than gains in anything, this is human nature.

 

Today I played one of my favourite tracks and then I unplugged the Vbus2 and played it again and noticed that the vocals lost some weight and the music overall became slightly thinner, subtle but detectable. I could only notice that with A/B comparison in a quiet room. So the Vbus2 will stay in my system now between the intona and RUR, happy with whatever performance boost it contributes given its low cost.

 

It seems that the USB game is abut to change big time very soon with new gadgets to hit the market, so I may need to revisit my usb chain in a couple of months

[mozes]

Thanks for sharing Moussa! 

The Vbus2 is the first step towards unshielded 3-wire USB cables which sounds even better IMO.

Many nice USB gadgets in the pipeline for sure! There seems to be a race between manufacturers to be the first one to release a product with the combo galvanic isolation and improved clock...and some GND-lift features sneaking in here and there. It's about time if you ask me! 

 

I am still using my curious usb cables which are shielded I guess. There is the new Vbus3 on the way as well. I like experimenting with cheap tweaks that have nice rewards. If I want to test unshielded usb cables as a replacement to the curious cables, what would you suggest?

 

This is a lot of fun indeed!

[mozes]

Here is my updated system diagram, every time I share a new diagram, it means that the system in its current configuration sounds better than the previous one

 

BTW, the dedicated mains improvement is by far better than all the tweaks I have done so far. Nothing comes close to it. It is at least 4 to 5 times better than any other tweak in my system

[mozes]

Yes I am good with soldering but not good with wire technicalities stil

 

I didn't understand this part in your post as I don't know how to distinguish between a data and GND wire. Please translate what a DC2,1 plug-to-socket is

 

"Make sure to twist the data wires and have the GND wire slightly longer on a distance from the twisted data wires. This will reduce capacitive coupling. While you are at it you can also add a DC2,1 plug-to-socket on the GND wire. In some certain setups the GND lift is an awesome tweak. It was for me as well until recently"

 

Thanks for all the tips @Cornan!

 

Me too, I am all for cheap tweak experiments!  It is usually a good way to find out what really matters.

 

My own suggestions would be Elijah Audio Konvertible Lite, since these are my own preferred USB cables (see my post regarding my coming Regen link). However, I know Curious Cable can also make just about any USB cable on request (special order), just like Elijah Audio and others manufacturers.

 

Since you are pretty good with a soldering iron you could also just as well do them yourself. Make sure to twist the data wires and have the GND wire slightly longer on a distance from the twisted data wires. This will reduce capacitive coupling. While you are at it you can also add a DC2,1 plug-to-socket on the GND wire. In some certain setups the GND lift is an awesome tweak. It was for me as well until recently.

[mozes]

I have a picture of a special made USB cable by Elijah Audio. This picture describes it better than words. Red cable is 5v power, black cable is GND and twisted white wires in silk sleevings are the data+ and data-.

In your cable you will not have the 5v and the you will only have one DC2.1/5.5mm male inline plug and one DC2.1/5.5mm female inline socket. I hope that explains it! [emoji4]

 

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Thanks now I got it!

 

 

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