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Cornan

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mozes

mozes

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Ok guys so I received today my D-Link 5-port switch which was tested by @Cornan and I quickly plugged its power adapter all day to warm it up. I plugged to my system this evening and tested 2 scenarios.

 

Scenario A: TP-Link WR802N router powered by a USB power bank (Anker 20000mAh powercore 20100)-->1 foot BJC Cat6A-->Accoustic Revive RLI-1 isolator-->Nimitra music server (powered by JS-2)

 

Scenario B: TP-Link WR802N router powered by a power bank (Anker 20000mAh powercore 20100)--> 1 foot BJC Cat6-->D-Link switch powered by LPS-1-->Accoustic Revive RLI-1 isolator-->Nimitra music server (powered by JS-2)

 

My plan for scenario B was to power it from another USB powerbank (iKits panasonic battery pack 19200mAh), but because I didn't have a USB to 2.5mm DC cable or any adpater, I used a an LPS-1 that I am not using. I grabbed a Y adapter and plugged it to my JS-2 to energize it (Now I have two LPS-1s powering RUR and the D-Link switch):

 

Now to whats important, my findings:

-Overall, the sound is very close in both scenarios, but with critical listening I observed the following

-In scenario B, the music sounds louder, as if I turned the volume up a bit. Maybe this has to do with the LPS-1 as I read somewhere that other people experienced louder volume when they use LPS-1 in their systems. Second, the music sounded brighter and I tried A/B listening with three different tracks just to make sure. Third, the I got the feeling that the vocals sound bigger but they are less focused in the sound stage as compared to Scenario A.

-I went back and forth many times between A and B and I decided to go back to A till I do more testing.

Tomorrow I am getting a USB to 2.5mm DC cable, so I will repeat the test with D-Link switch powered by the power bank. This way I will have both my router and switch powered by batteries.

 

It's funny that I always have different results from @Cornan, but this shows that different systems always behave in different ways. Probably the cables have to do with it, but I think that my AR RLI-1 isolator is doing an excellent job and it is very hard to improve upon. I didn't remove the RLI-1 from my tests as I tried that before, It just improves the sound and it replaced a Baaske isolator.

 

 

Hopefully I will share the findings of my new test tomorrow, stay tuned in!

 

P.S. I did my test using Tidal by streaming from BUbbleDS to Jplaystreamer, Thanks @Cornan for the tip on BubbleDS!

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mozes

mozes

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Posted
Thanks for sharing @moussabeid! [emoji4]

Not what I was hoping for, but as you said, different system bahave in different ways. What you'll need to remember is that I actually did three rapid changes. TP Link RE450 connected to a tech style isolation transformer (instead of via a surge protected power strip connected to the wall outlet), new shorter Cat 6A U/UTP cables instead of a Cat 5E plus the D-Link DGS-105 powered by batteries unconnected to ac mains. I will go back and evaluate the D-Link switch later on to see if it hold true.

 

A couple of questions. Did you fully disconnect the battery charger from the ac mains? Did you change any positions of the power supplies from your normal best for this test?

I did'nt quite get which you actually preferred in the end. Scenario A or B?

 

I preferred A and I charge my batteries in a different room with a separate circuit so no chargers in the music room. I will redo the tests tonight

 

 

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mozes

mozes

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Thanks, it will be interesting to see if your impressions will remain! :)

 

I also wanted to do a test with and without the D-Link this weekend to see if the changes was still the same. Unfortunately the Cat 6a U/UTP cable is too short to evaluate my setup head-to-head with a direct connection with the same Cat 6a U/UTP ethernet cable, so the only options I have got is to evaluate it against a Cat 5e, Audioquest Cinnamon or Supra Cat 7+ for the moment. To be honest I am not to keen adding a galvanic connection between my Aries Mini and RE450 without a network isolator, so I´ll guess it have to order a longer Cat 6a U/UTP cable before I can evaluate it in a fair way.

 

To give you an idea how my setup looks right now I have made a new spagetti image.

 

[ATTACH=CONFIG]33499[/ATTACH]

 

I can only say that my SQ have never been this good before and my guess the main reasons are the router powered by Voltcraft FPS-1134 and the TP Link RE450 powered through the Peaktech 2240 (plus maybe the Axing DC blocker and the QED Reference SVT cable at the input of the router).

 

BTW. Did you hear any SQ differences between the BubbleDS Next and the BubbleUPnP?

 

Yes I did hear a difference between BubbleUpnP and BubbleDS Next. I think Bubble DS sounds better to my ears. I noticed that the sound is cleaner and more enjoyable to listen to, lower noise floor I think is what is contributing to the better sonic performance of BubbleDS.

Can you pls tell me how you manage the buffering (size, location) with BubbleDS ?

 

 

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mozes

mozes

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Great to hear that you hear that BubbleDS Next sounds better for you as well! 

There is no option to manage the buffering AFAIK (but I only use Tidal as source. That is actually one of the main reasons why BubbleDS Next sounds better, since it have a seamless connection to cloud content via the OpenHome standard), but I have not seen this option in BubbleUPnP either (which I use on my secondary system via UPnP).

Are you using Foobar2000 with Bubble Server & BubbleUPnP otherwise or do you mean that the buffering shows up in BubbleUPnP anyway when playing offline files?

 

Previously when I used JplayStreamer on a W10 Pro PC I managed the buffering via Jplay settings.

 

I use BubbleDS Next with JplayStreamer, I don't know how to manage the bufferign with Jplay settings, I will check it out. In BubbleUpnP, you have the option under settings to set the cache on local storage, you can have 0 cache size for example, I am using now 500MB, but haven't done any tests to hear if there are any differences, but I think having a local cache may sound better, not sure though

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mozes

mozes

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I think you are referring to the cashing of offline files and not buffering (PC) right? This is only available with BubbleUPnP and not with BubbleDS. However, when I use Aries Mini they have cashing of Tidal via LightningDS/OpenHome, which is valid via external control points like BubbleDS Next as well! :)

 

You are right I meant cashing of offline files

 

 

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mozes

mozes

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I am quite thrilled! I found a second hand isolation transformer that I can use for my secondary system to isolate both systems (ie. Improving the secondary system and not interfering with the primary system). A high quality swedish made Perfect Power for around USD120.-. A great find in my book! :)

 

[ATTACH]33505[/ATTACH]

 

[ATTACH]33506[/ATTACH]

 

Great you always find good deals :)

 

I was trying now to assign fixed IP address to my Nimitra as it seems that this is what everyone recommends here, but I failed miserably :) I turned off the DHCP in my main Linksys router and all devices at home lost connection to the internet!

 

Crisis management, my wife and the kids are going crazy :)

 

 

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mozes

mozes

Posted
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I received today a 3 feet USB to DC2.5mm cable so I repeated my yesterday's tests but this time, the D-link switch in scenario B is powered by a power bank. To my surprise, I preferred the power bank to the LPS-1, the sound is more organic and no more extra brightness and loudness (the LPS-1 replaced my JS-2 in powering the RUR with better results) Now A and B became much closer to each other and I could say that both are so close, but still there was like 1-2% (I hate quantifying sound but just to give you the idea) difference where scenario B had less transparency. So I settled with scenario A and the D-Link switch is packed, I am still thinking whether I should send it back to Amazon or keep it for some future experiments or maybe I will need it somewhere somehow.

The below solution gave me so far the best sound with Tidal (not in any order):

 

1- Battery powered TP-Link 802n router (configured as a wireless bridge)

2- 1 foot BJC Cat6a ethernet cable (replaced 3m Supra Cat8)

3- Accoustic Revive RLI-1 isolator (replaced Baaske MI 1005 isolator)

4- BubbleDS Next with Jplaystreamer (BubbleDS Next replaced Bubble uPnP)

 

I hope this helps anyone who is trying to optimize Tidal streaming.

 

 

Ok guys so I received today my D-Link 5-port switch which was tested by @Cornan and I quickly plugged its power adapter all day to warm it up. I plugged to my system this evening and tested 2 scenarios.

 

Scenario A: TP-Link WR802N router powered by a USB power bank (Anker 20000mAh powercore 20100)-->1 foot BJC Cat6A-->Accoustic Revive RLI-1 isolator-->Nimitra music server (powered by JS-2)

 

Scenario B: TP-Link WR802N router powered by a power bank (Anker 20000mAh powercore 20100)--> 1 foot BJC Cat6-->D-Link switch powered by LPS-1-->Accoustic Revive RLI-1 isolator-->Nimitra music server (powered by JS-2)

 

My plan for scenario B was to power it from another USB powerbank (iKits panasonic battery pack 19200mAh), but because I didn't have a USB to 2.5mm DC cable or any adpater, I used a an LPS-1 that I am not using. I grabbed a Y adapter and plugged it to my JS-2 to energize it (Now I have two LPS-1s powering RUR and the D-Link switch):

 

Now to whats important, my findings:

-Overall, the sound is very close in both scenarios, but with critical listening I observed the following

-In scenario B, the music sounds louder, as if I turned the volume up a bit. Maybe this has to do with the LPS-1 as I read somewhere that other people experienced louder volume when they use LPS-1 in their systems. Second, the music sounded brighter and I tried A/B listening with three different tracks just to make sure. Third, the I got the feeling that the vocals sound bigger but they are less focused in the sound stage as compared to Scenario A.

-I went back and forth many times between A and B and I decided to go back to A till I do more testing.

Tomorrow I am getting a USB to 2.5mm DC cable, so I will repeat the test with D-Link switch powered by the power bank. This way I will have both my router and switch powered by batteries.

 

It's funny that I always have different results from @Cornan, but this shows that different systems always behave in different ways. Probably the cables have to do with it, but I think that my AR RLI-1 isolator is doing an excellent job and it is very hard to improve upon. I didn't remove the RLI-1 from my tests as I tried that before, It just improves the sound and it replaced a Baaske isolator.

 

 

Hopefully I will share the findings of my new test tomorrow, stay tuned in!

 

P.S. I did my test using Tidal by streaming from BUbbleDS to Jplaystreamer, Thanks @Cornan for the tip on BubbleDS!

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mozes

mozes

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Posted
Done that & feel your pain! [emoji29]

DHCP is NOT a good idea to turn off on the main router. Only on network extenders (access point/bridge/adapter) in some rare cases when nobody else should use it (for example audio/video only). You'll probably need to connect to the router admin via the default ip (via web browser), usually http:\\192.168.0.1 or similar (check router manual) and turn DHCP on again or in worst case scenario to reset the router and reconfigure.

If you turn off the DHCP on extenders it is a good idea to set the static IP first and note down the static IP. You might need it to access the settings of the extender.

If you you want to use an extender for audio only you can also check if it have a blacklist setting where you can block other devices (family) to access it. This is a good idea for a faster and more reliable connection and therefore likely a better SQ. However, you'll need to be 100% sure to blacklist the correct devices before you do! [emoji6]

 

Lol I reset the router reconfigured it and all is working fine now. I turned the DHCP on on my wireless bridge router as I don't want the hassle anymore, will reattempt when I know what I am doing

 

Thanks Cornan for all of your tips and help!

 

 

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mozes

mozes

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Posted
Thanks for sharing moussaobeid! [emoji4]

Interesting that you preferred the battery pack to the LPS-1 for the router. That might suggest that ac mains noise to the feeder supply or feeder supply backwash noise into the mains (ie. noises to other audio devices in the audio chain) to be plausible causes, making a isolation transformer somewere in the audio chain (all the ac powered devices) something to consider.

Network devices seems to be very sensitive to power related noises, so if you have a main router as well you should maybe look into options how to isolate it from the ac mains as well (and not forgetting to isolate the signal input to the main router as well).

 

Just to clarify I had the LPS-1 powering the D-Link switch not the router. My wireless bridge router is powered by a battery pack in both scenarios A&B. I preferred to power the switch from the battery vs the LPS-1. My main router is upstairs on a different power circuit. If the main router is sending the data via wifi, do you think a battery or LPS makes any difference? Right now I use its SMPS that came with it. It is a beast needs 19v at 2.5amps

 

 

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mozes

mozes

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OK, but it does'nt change the circumstances.

I cannot be absolutely sure, but for me the router powered by the galvanicly isolated Voltcraft makes a big difference even when I am using wifi and the router is in another room to my audio system. I suspect that the routers signal could somehow be affected by ac mains noises (crap in - crap out) since the actual signal is indeed isolated with wifi.

 

Emmm this means I should find something similar to your Voltcraft. I don't want to spend tons of cash for it as my main listening is to music stored locally on the SSD. Both of my JS-2 and Vinnie Rossi mini don't have 19v so I need something preferably with flexible voltage

 

 

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mozes

mozes

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Emmm this means I should find something similar to your Voltcraft. I don't want to spend tons of cash for it as my main listening is to music stored locally on the SSD. Both of my JS-2 and Vinnie Rossi mini don't have 19v so I need something preferably with flexible voltage

I found some companies that specialize in medical/lab/educational DC power supplies:

 

Power Supplies - B&K Precision

Linear Power Supply

Top Quality Power Supply Manufacturer in China - SHENZHEN KORAD TECHNOLOGY CO., LTD.

 

I think their products are available on Amazon.com and Ebay.

 

Cornan, Do you think there is something worth trying for my router? I tried to look myself but the choices are overwhelming!

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mozes

mozes

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If your main music is stored locally a new galvanicly isolated PSU for the router is not that important. It is only if the music is passing through the router (cloud content) when this is an issue.

 

Personally I would look for a isolation transformer for the router. It will be easier. I think something like this will be sufficient for your router http://www.ebay.com/itm/332006497637, but you could surely find something cheaper with a little search time.

Cheaper options of lab PSU requires a bit of investigations since they do not always tell if they are galvanicly isolated. I know B&K Precision make good products. Maybe to E-mail them and ask for the cheapest one in your voltage range that are linear regulated and galvanicly isolated?

 

Good suggestion, I will send them an email

 

 

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mozes

mozes

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I managed to find a way to use my Cat 6A U/UTP cable directly from RE450 to the Aries Mini...and found something interesting while experimenting.

 

When I first connected it directly to the Aries Mini it did actually sound a tad more transparent than via D-Link switch. When I re-evaluate the switch again I decided to put the switch output in socket 3 instead of 2 right next to input 1. It sounded better so I decided to put it on socket 5 (ie. as far as possible from the input). Much better and now sounds better than the direct approach. Another thing that I noticed with direct connection was that I suddenly lost the album pictures in BubbleDS Next after a few tracks. This never happened via D-Link DSG-105. Might be a clue?

 

Anyway @moussaobeid if you still have the switch try with the output on socket 5 and input on socket 1 as well.

 

I am keeping my switch, but the improvement might be due to my specific setup! [emoji4]

 

I still have the switch will test this tonight, @Cornan you are amazing you never run out of ideas :)

 

 

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mozes

mozes

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I will be addressing power isolation radically next week. I will install two dedicated 20amp lines (gauge 10) to the music room. I will put the analogue Naim gear on one line and the rest of the digital gear on one. I will still have the 3rd line which is for the room, that I can also use, but I doubt I will need it.

This will be a game changer to my system I guess

 

You've got most things covered as far as I can see. The only suggestion would be to get a Topaz isolation transformer for the AC mains. You will need a powerful one at that spot.

The other one is to look at the USB connections. I would suggest that you'll await the coming Sbooster Vbus3 which will add the option to lift GND. However you'll need to know where it is possible to cut 5v.

Noticed that you said that you own a second LPS-1. Personally I would experiment with it as a 5v injection to the Intona plus cut 5v at the Nimitra end.

However, I will guess you'll will be very pleased when the router is connected to that B&K ISO transformer without any other changes! 

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mozes

mozes

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You've got most things covered as far as I can see. The only suggestion would be to get a Topaz isolation transformer for the AC mains. You will need a powerful one at that spot.

The other one is to look at the USB connections. I would suggest that you'll await the coming Sbooster Vbus3 which will add the option to lift GND. However you'll need to know where it is possible to cut 5v.

Noticed that you said that you own a second LPS-1. Personally I would experiment with it as a 5v injection to the Intona plus cut 5v at the Nimitra end.

However, I will guess you'll will be very pleased when the router is connected to that B&K ISO transformer without any other changes! [emoji4]

 

I can't cut the 5v as the Brooklyn needs it. Maybe time to upgrade the DAC :)

 

 

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mozes

mozes

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Hi M, nice diagram. You may want to try a 2.5mm DC male to male hard adapter over the 1 meter cable between the lps-1 and the w4rrur. I was stunned with the benefit in a similar situation.

 

It'll cost you less then $5 to try this.

 

Thanks for the suggestion Imitche, actually I have two adapters in my drawer but still haven't figured a way how to connect the LPS-1 to the RUR as the USB cable is bulky and the chassis of the LPS-1 is wide. Will work on it tonight though

 

 

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mozes

mozes

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Hi Austin,

 

Thanks for your suggestions. Yes I do love the Brooklyn especially with the VR mini

 

I just finished reorganize the USB chain and managed to plug the ebay hard adapter between the LPS-1 and RUR by putting the RUR on its side and forcing the Curious cable a bit with a slight angle, but it works. Later tonight I will sit to evaluate the sound.

 

Vbus2 is the next tweak that I will try, thanks to a generous lending offer by one of the CA members!

 

 

 

Hi Moussa,

 

Nice diagram. Your system looks rather well optimized already, so it's all tweaking at this point!

 

My suggestions:

  1. Keep the Brooklyn! I doubt it is anywhere close to the weak link in your chain.
  2. Echo @lmitche suggestion about the adapter, if you can work the mechanics. I found some cheap cork coasters cut up if needed can help with leveling and support.
  3. OTOH, some have reported better results with a short silver DC cable, either no-name Chinese on eBay, or the Sonore DC-4.
  4. Cut the 5V out from the Intona to the RUR. I use a Vbus2, or if you have a double headed cable like the Lightspeed 2G, that will work too. The RUR will still properly send 5V to your Brooklyn.

Just curious - have you experimented with the endpoint approach- like the mR or sMS-200, as an alternative to the audio PC? I know nothing of the Nimitra, so maybe this is a moot point? I just wondered what your impressions were.

 

Anyway - your system has really good "bones." Enjoy it, and keep on tweaking!

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mozes

mozes

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Sorry I missed your last question @Austin

No I haven't tried MR or SMS-200 although I am interested in trying the SMS-200 Ultra which should be launched soon, it will be interesting to compare to my Nimitra which I think is very hard to beat

 

Hi Austin,

 

Thanks for your suggestions. Yes I do love the Brooklyn especially with the VR mini

 

I just finished reorganize the USB chain and managed to plug the ebay hard adapter between the LPS-1 and RUR by putting the RUR on its side and forcing the Curious cable a bit with a slight angle, but it works. Later tonight I will sit to evaluate the sound.

 

Vbus2 is the next tweak that I will try, thanks to a generous lending offer by one of the CA members!

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