MQA is Vaporware

[witchdoctor]

18 minutes ago, FredericV said:

I actually spoke to a Dutch AES engineer. He completely debunked MQA in one hour.
AES engineers actually work with the spectrum plots as prestented:

 

 

 

All of the presentations at that meeting are vetted by the AES Technical Committee, if your friend has a problem he should bring it up with them:

 

http://www.aes.org/technical/rtp/

[witchdoctor]

1 hour ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

I wish this committee was actually what it appears to be. There are politics involved much of the time. I've talked to people who've gone through the process successfully and unsuccessfully. Both say the same thing.

 

The politics involved in the Meyer & Moran study and the papers refuting the findings that AES wouldn't allow are not good. 

I think you are getting ahead of yourself. Audio engineers need to know how to master in hirez so it can be ready fro streaming. All of the major labels are committed to MQA. If you were an audio engineer what is the benefit of not knowing how to master in MQA? Hey, at the end of the day it is up to the client and if you want to be hired the more tools the better. The MQA ship has sailed and if you work in the studio you want to be on that ship, not tossed into a life raft or miss the boat entirely. Do you want to be the engineer specializing in low rez audio? Good luck with that.

[witchdoctor]

For anyone interested iFi is releasing an MQA Black Label DAC. 

[witchdoctor]

I bet CES sees new processors with MQA decoding (hopefully a software patch so you can update your current processor) and more MQA dacs. Those DSD dacs will be boat anchors as the only labels doing new DSD releases will likely be the boutique labels. I love opening up Tidal and seeing more MQA albums being dropped all the time. The playlists are growing too, my new favorite is the MQA Motown playlist.

[witchdoctor]

51 minutes ago, Samuel T Cogley said:

 

From what I've read over at Head-Fi, it has the XMOS, DAC, and line-out guts of the new iOne, and the headphone amp of the iDAC2.

 

It's in the Nano form factor.

Sweet, I want one already, hopefully it comes in around $500

[witchdoctor]

28 minutes ago, Confused said:

http://youtu.be/kQFKtI6gn9Y

 

seams appropriate while we wait for things to drift back on topic.......

I forgot about that sketch, hilarious, thanks for posting

[witchdoctor]

15 minutes ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

 

It isn't a conspiracy for the same reasons 9/11 wasn't an inside job. The players involved aren't sophisticated enough to carry it out, without the plan leaking. 

 

The forceful support of MQA could be seen as an indication of how those totally on the bandwagon view the state of the industry. They see it as being in such bad shape that any new change nudging people to purchase new items or music or encourage more commerce, is seen as good. The efficacy of the change is beside the point, even if it's bad in the long run. The same group of audiophiles will buy new MQA DACs now and buy new non-mqa DACs when it disappears. 

 

The blind support could also be many other things with more innocent explanations or ignorant explanations or whatever. 

Thank you for recognizing the witchdoctor's "forceful support" of MQA, I'm glad it's appreciated. I bought a Node, and will likely buy the new iFi MQA DAC when it is released. This change is good in the long run just like the move to 4K was in video. 
THINK- in video we have gone from video tape, to DVD, to BRD, to UHD.

In audio we have gone from vinyl, to cassette, to CD, to MP3. MQA is already reversing the audio Titanic we have been on. Big ships turn slowly but at last we are going in the right direction. MQA now has more albums released than DSD and the DSD ship is going straight to the bottom of the ocean because nobody other than a very narrow market BUYS it because it is too expensive ($20+ a pop), too much of a hassle (dac required), lack of desirable content (which will get worse with the labels on the MQA train), and bulky files (good luck streaming DSD).
 

[witchdoctor]

2 minutes ago, rickca said:

Wow that is really sad.  What happened to the spirit of innovation?  Despite guys like ML trying to characterize us as unhappy and angry, I think we are vibrant and curious and excited about discovery.  That's why we get upset with a bad attitude like this.

Witchdoctor also gets upset with bad attitude from feisty members, good point.

[witchdoctor]

I can't comment on 4K, I am waiting for the PJ prices to come down. That being said I just got into 3D video this year and think it is awesome. I know it has been pretty much abandoned, I certainly didn't need it but now that I tried it I prefer it. The same can be said for my experience with MQA. I certainly didn't need it but now that I tried it, I prefer it.

[witchdoctor]

52 minutes ago, MetalNuts said:

 

Despite it is not the right place to talk about 4K video, with respect I myself as one of the consumers  prefers 4K which is so much better.  The break through is like from VCD to DVD.  Once you have watched 4K, it is hard to go back.  The technology in 4K and HDR is not adding a who knows what filters as in MQA.  

 

Having said that, I do agree that  a bigger TV is needed to get the most benefit of 4K video.  However, is MQA so magical that it can be proved that it sounds better in a crap equipment?  If they can really do that, I wonder how the HIFI equipment industry will survive since it is no longer the equipment that makes it sound better but MQA.

That is exactly why I like MQA, once I listened to it I can't go back. MQA will have to sound better on crap equipment or the masses that use crappy equipment won't pay the premium. That doesn't mean it will sound great, just better than low rez on crappy equipment. 

[witchdoctor]

1 minute ago, DarwinOSX said:

HDR is much more of a benefit than 4K. 4k is pretty benign since it’s on most TVs and there are a wide variety of prices. By the way I sit close enough to see the benefit of 4K but HDR is mout of the ballpark nice.

I’m also loving MQA on Tidal. 

+1, finally someone with good taste on this thread

[witchdoctor]

51 minutes ago, #Yoda# said:

FYI: http://www.digitalaudioreview.net/2017/10/mqa-dcs/

 

"The high end audio world is littered with Format-First Audiophiles who now more than ever shop with a “No MQA, No Deal” approach, especially when it comes to big ticket items like those offered by dCS."

 

I'd like to know who the mentioned audiophiles are. ?

The witchdoctor will not buy a new dac that doesn't offer MQA. I think I will start a #nomqanodeal  hashtag

[witchdoctor]

11 minutes ago, Shadders said:

Hi,

So, all we need is for mansr to create an application that emulates the key aspects of the filtering/transfer function/coding process for MQA, and we can then process all our files accordingly, getting MQA for free. And it would be lossless too.

Hurrah.

I would be willing to contribute funds towards that development.

Regards,

Shadders.

Did you say contribute funds? WOW! I will send you a link to my kickstarter page ASAP. What is your budget? If it is more than $100 you should just get an Audioquest Dragonfly MQA DAC instead.

[witchdoctor]

This thread is an echo chamber of a handful of malcontents, The ship has sailed guys, MQA is the future of hirez, get over it already. If you don't like MQA and want better SQ buy more vinyl OK? 

[witchdoctor]

38 minutes ago, mcgillroy said:

 

Go tell that to the Mastering Engineers over at Gearslutz. They probably really happy to get some solid info from you

 

https://www.gearslutz.com/board/mastering-forum/1171365-mqa-discussion-denver-rmaf.html

 

 

Quote

 

They should attend the AES meeting in NY and learn proper HIREZ mastering. If they don't they will be fighting for leftovers against the engineers that can:
http://www.aes.org/events/143/specialevents/?ID=5624 

[witchdoctor]

54 minutes ago, Samuel T Cogley said:

 

If the ship really has sailed as you say, MQA would not have cancelled their presentation at RMAF.  And there are DACs out there of sufficient quality that make the "need" for hirez moot.  Listen to well mastered Redbook on a high quality R2R DAC to see what I mean.

The issue with those dacs is they cost $$$ and I don't know that they will work at home, in a car, in a phone, etc. The funny thing is even if you play an MQA file through a non MQA dac you can still get the first unfold of the track.

[witchdoctor]

1 hour ago, mav52 said:

What was the lasting AES meeting you attended  and where was it ?

Why, do the guys at gearslutz need directions to NYC? 

[witchdoctor]

1 hour ago, Shadders said:

Hi,

Do you mean, you get 13bits instead of 16bits, and there is no unfolding without an MQA DAC ?

Regards,

Shadders.

I mean $$$ dacs have advantages and disadvantages and cost $$$. If you want to spend $$$ for a format that will stop being produced by the major labels go ahead. My next dac will include PCM, DSD, MQA and be portable, desktop, and HT friendly. (see iFi's new Black Label DAC). 
 

[witchdoctor]

13 minutes ago, mav52 said:

Don't avoid the question,  I didn't ask that.  You always talk about AES, when was the last meeting YOU attended ?

 

Posters here might want to know your involvement with AES , like are you a member etc..

Thanks for asking, are you one of my fans? Glad to see you are avidly reading my posts. I ALWAYS talk about AES huh? No autographs please.

[witchdoctor]

PS- For those who are interested I will try and get the slides from the AES presentation on hirez mastering, just PM me.

[witchdoctor]

2 hours ago, Samuel T Cogley said:

 

The ambient noise level of a car in motion will likely negate any benefit from ultra high fidelity playback.  And that content would likely come from a mobile phone.

 

Your MQA advocacy borders on slavish obsession.  All sizzle and no steak.

The witchdoctor is vegan, thanks! As far as car audio I like JBL and can't comment on hirez in a car, I think surround works though. If you a road warrior here you go:

 

https://audio-head.com/mqa-goes-portable-with-sony-and-lg/

[witchdoctor]

1 hour ago, christopher3393 said:

 Ok, so tomorrow:

 

 

Is this the same paradigm shift that constitutes a "scientific revolution" or the equivalent in audio that Robert Harley has 'announced"? ( http://www.theabsolutesound.com/articles/let-the-revolution-begin/  )

 

And that provokes Archimago's critical response?

 

http://archimago.blogspot.com/2017/10/mqa-final-thoughts-on-politics-paradigms.html?showComment=1508034286252#c6079009204452185117

 

Is this "paradigm shift" language, borrowed from Thomas Kuhn approriate ? ( Or would a term like "apotheosis" be more fitting? )

The "paradigm shift" is the labels want to master in MQA. It may be a condition of employment for an engineer wanting to get hired for these projects in the future. Continuing education is always a plus. 

[witchdoctor]

2 hours ago, Rt66indierock said:

 

Witchdoctor,

 

Nice to see you back but we are the majority. Nor are we malcontents, we saw the high end audio industry floundering with many problems and are trying to fix some of them. One reason why every argument referencing “full steam ahead” or” the ship has sailed” has fallen flat on its face is MQA has no momentum. The new mantra is “if you don’t like MQA don’t buy it.” Which is happening in the market today, Danny Kaey (Positive Feedback) admitted in his Sunday MQA seminar at RMAF 2017 the number of Tidal Hi Fi users is very small. You are posting on the MQA is Vaporware thread because there still aren’t 10,000 albums converted to MQA. And nothing has changed since I told Marc Finer of DEG and representatives from the labels that high resolution audio will be a very difficult sell at the Los Angeles Audio Show in June.

 

Now let’s get to the timeline issue you have. Your comments about the pro audio community are misplaced. Many of the people who oppose MQA on GearSlutz were shown MQA before it was introduced to the public (audiophiles) in December 2014. They rejected MQA after testing it. I’ve been around high resolution recording capabilities for over fifteen years so the studio side is well aware of high resolution recording. None of the marketing efforts this year have made a compelling argument to studios that high resolution audio is anything but a niche market including MQA.

 

And finally how can there be a paradigm shift when artists, studios and consumers don’t want it?

 

Thanks, i didn't like the new beta version of CA but Chris seems to have worked out the bugs, nice to be back. Now...

Wake up and small the coffee mr majority unless you mean the majority of this thread. If you are the great and powerful oz wave your magic wand and raise the sales of hirez or btter yet, redbook. Sales are dying in the music industry because the MAJORITY of people stopped buying CD's and downloads and started pirating (newsflash I know). So set aside your crusty old CDP and grab an iphone and earbuds if you want to be in the MAJORITY. The labels are trying to raise the bar just like video did with 1080P and now 4K. Since the MAJORITY of customers now stream music (newsflash #2 streaming revenues have surpassed download revenues) give them am audio version of 4K on Netflix. That being MQA on Tidal, Deezer, the new service from HD Tracks, and whoever else gets on board the MQA train in 2018 and beyond.
I can't believe you think the malcontents in this thread are a majority of anything other than bad attitudes. They aren't even the majority on thos board. Anyone who has a different view than the MQA bullies gets flamed by a bunch of geezers who dumped all their cash into a dinosauer format which is going to the bottom of the ocean next to betamax and 8 track tapes. My advice is give up digital and buy vinyl. I'll take the 7000+ and growing MQA albums on Tidal for an extra $10 a month. Give me a break.

[witchdoctor]

6 hours ago, Mordikai said:

how many subscribers are paying the $10 extra dollars for Tidal with MQA?

I don't know. What I do know is that streaming sales are snowballing and Spotify dwarfs everyone in the category. Next year Deezer will be offering MQA and HD Tracks will be starting a new MQA streaming service. 

 

http://www.tennessean.com/story/money/2017/03/30/us-music-streaming-sales-reach-historic-high/99816802/

[witchdoctor]

1 hour ago, Em2016 said:

 

Is anyone on this thread going? Would love to hear a report about interesting stuff discussed (regarding MQA).

 

 

Well if you are THAT interested here are links to the MQA related presentations. I can't send you the papers themselves but you can access them one of two ways. By joining the AES or by purchasing the paper as a non member.The papers have already been uploaded and are available. I recommend this one since the malcontents here seem obsessed with this topic. This study includes both objective data and subjective blind listening tests:

http://www.aes.org/e-lib/browse.cfm?elib=19340

Perceived Differences in Timbre, Clarity, and Depth in Audio Files Treated with MQA Encoding vs. Their Unprocessed State

The purpose of this engineering brief is to detail a planned experiment in examining any perceived differences in timbre, clarity, and depth between WAV and Master Quality Authenticated (MQA) audio files. A study proposes examining the responses of engineers, musicians, and casual listeners on whether any changes to timbre, clarity, and depth are perceived between WAV and MQA. A blind listening test is considered in a controlled environment using both professional and consumer level loudspeakers and headphones. Additional interests include a comparison of responses between the target groups on different listening mediums.